2024-2025 Around the NBA Thread

[Suns_fan69]

Weird move for the Wolves. I get that it's tax/apron related, but the team just went to the Western finals, and Edwards is still on the way up. Minnesota fans must be frustrated.

 

[Yuma]

When Randle and Gobert have their inevitable fist fight I hope it's on TV and not in the locker room.

I am betting on Randle.

 

[Phrazbit]

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[Cheesebeef]

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Haha… nice.

I think this move slightly buttresses my argument that the Knicks valuing Bridges as worth 5 first rounders doesn’t automatically mean he was actually worth that price.

I’m super interested to see what this Knicks team is like though this season.

 

[Phrazbit]

I don't hate this for the Knicks. They didn't miss a beat when Randle went down and there have been a lot of signs that he was not well liked in that locker room. Losing DeVincenzo hurts, especially with how often OG gets injured. Towns is a very bad defender (Randle is pretty lousy on D as well) but he's worse as a 4 on D than as a 5, and he shoots from all the same areas Randle does, only he's much better at shooting. They might get killed on the glass though.

For Minnesota, this looks like it's all about salary, because it just doesn't make sense on paper. Randle and Gobert seem like an awful pairing and Edwards openly complains when he feels like the lane is clogged and with those guys, the lane is going to be clogged. None of them compliment each other. Randle has a player option at the end of the season and I expect he will decline it and the Wolves will let him walk for nothing.

Also, this Pistons 1st round pick the Wolves got will become a 2nd rounder unless the Pistons make the playoffs... and they ain't making the playoffs.

So, a role player, a toxic "star" forward on a lame duck contract and a 2nd round pick, for Towns... I'm a certified Towns doubter, but that is a joke of a return.

Coming off that WCF showing too... just a really strange move by Minnesota.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't hate this for the Knicks. They didn't miss a beat when Randle went down

Not sure this can be said with a lot of authority. The Knicks were 29-17 when Randle went down and surging but ended up only 21-15 after he got injured. That’s a difference between a 53 win club and a 48 win club over the course of the season. 5 games seems like a pretty solid difference between success measures.

I like the move a tiny bit more for Minnesota. It gives them a much needed second option who can score and create for himself and others a little bit. Towns was also becoming one of the biggest choke artists ever.

Overall though, I don’t think it moves the needle for either team but it does allow the Wolves to get out from under Towns’ terrible contract and even worst stupidity on the court.

 

[Phrazbit]

Not sure this can be said with a lot of authority. The Knicks were 29-17 when Randle went down and surging but ended up only 21-15 after he got injured. That’s a difference between a 53 win club and a 48 win club over the course of the season. 5 games seems like a pretty solid difference between success measures.

I like the move a tiny bit more for Minnesota. It gives them a much needed second option who can score and create for himself and others a little bit. Towns was also becoming one of the biggest choke artists ever.

Overall though, I don’t think it moves the needle for either team but it does allow the Wolves to get out from under Towns’ terrible contract and even worst stupidity on the court.

Randle can get pretty stupid out there, he has some turnovers that are beyond comprehension, and his shot selection is awful. He's a better passer than Towns, I'll give you that. I think this really wrecks Minnesota's spacing, Gobert is a non-factor outside of 5 feet and Randle LOVES to shoot outside but he's really bad at it, he is good in the post but if he plays down low he's going to have Gobert and Gobert's defender in the way. He isn't a catch and shoot guy either, part of the reason he has decent assist numbers is because he pounds the rock, lots of dribbling.

I think the Wolves took a step back, not sure how big, might be small, if my thoughts on the chemistry are on point, then it could be huge.

I don't know how the Towns thing is going to work out in NY, but I think they have some good leaders on that team and they have some defenders to help cover how terrible he is on that end. He's a front runner though, if things start off bad there and the Garden crowd turns on him he could go really sideways.

 

[Raindog]

My take is that really wasn't that great for either team. Minnesota in my opinion takes two steps back from a team that made a surprising surge upwards last year, although I get they are doing it solely for economic flexibility. So maybe it pays off down the road, who knows. But their team next season is going to be significantly weaker on the court (but good news for the Suns on that front).

New York gets the better asset out of it, but not at all a sure thing how Towns will fit into the chemistry mix in NY. Because of the unique nature of that market, moves like this have a definite history of going sidewise for them. We'll see how it plays out this time.

 

[GatorAZ]

Randle can get pretty stupid out there, he has some turnovers that are beyond comprehension, and his shot selection is awful. He's a better passer than Towns, I'll give you that. I think this really wrecks Minnesota's spacing, Gobert is a non-factor outside of 5 feet and Randle LOVES to shoot outside but he's really bad at it, he is good in the post but if he plays down low he's going to have Gobert and Gobert's defender in the way. He isn't a catch and shoot guy either, part of the reason he has decent assist numbers is because he pounds the rock, lots of dribbling.

I think the Wolves took a step back, not sure how big, might be small, if my thoughts on the chemistry are on point, then it could be huge.

I don't know how the Towns thing is going to work out in NY, but I think they have some good leaders on that team and they have some defenders to help cover how terrible he is on that end. He's a front runner though, if things start off bad there and the Garden crowd turns on him he could go really sideways.

That’s what the Knicks are banking on. They’re finally an adult franchise with good leadership/chemistry. Meanwhile the T-Wolves have a frontcourt straight out of 1994. Edwards is a superstar but he’s none too bright and goofy enough to get weird if things go south. The Suns have improved moderately and the Wolves have declined moderately although I do like the DiVencenzo piece for depth.

 

[Phrazbit]

My take is that really wasn't that great for either team. Minnesota in my opinion takes two steps back from a team that made a surprising surge upwards last year, although I get they are doing it solely for economic flexibility. So maybe it pays off down the road, who knows. But their team next season is going to be significantly weaker on the court (but good news for the Suns on that front).

New York gets the better asset out of it, but not at all a sure thing how Towns will fit into the chemistry mix in NY. Because of the unique nature of that market, moves like this have a definite history of going sidewise for them. We'll see how it plays out this time.

Very fair.

I think this is a step backwards for Minnesota and if New York improved, I don't know by how much and there is more risk on their end.

That’s what the Knicks are banking on. They’re finally an adult franchise with good leadership/chemistry. Meanwhile the T-Wolves have a frontcourt straight out of 1994. Edwards is a superstar but he’s none too bright and goofy enough to get weird if things go south. The Suns have improved moderately and the Wolves have declined moderately although I do like the DiVencenzo piece for depth.

There were some hot mic moments as the Wolves were getting knocked out in the semifinals that really made me question Edwards, flat out trashing his teammates on the court:

"This ****** talking about passing the ball and s***… F out of here. Pass me the f*ing ball."

"I’m better than these ******, man. Those ****** can’t f with me."

Maybe he was unraveling a bit as they got routed, but that is toxic stuff.

Now you add Randle, a total loose cannon, to that team... and you've got Gobert over there, who gets strangled and punched by his teammates as often as his opponents, things might get crazy.

 

[Hoop Head]

As wrong as I was about Ayton being the second coming of the Admiral, I was as wrong on Ant but the other direction. I was 100% convinced that Ant's ceiling was no better than Starbury. He's proven me so very wrong with his skillset but I wouldn't be surprised if he follows Marbury's path and ends up eating vaseline by the handful on YouTube but if he does do that it will be on the Timberwolves owner ship group and GM.


I'm starting to come around on this move for New York. Hopefully KAT can handle the MSG crowd and produce but worst case is he's a more efficient and overall better version of Randle. Losing DiVincenzo hurts but New York has depth and there was already a question of how Mikal, OG, Hart, and Dante would share minutes at SG, SF, and PF. That's a formidable defensive trio in OG, Mikal, and Hart so KAT may skate by being a rim protector there. He made 2 All-Star teams in 3 years under Thibs in Minnesota so maybe this works. It gives them options while Mitchell Robinson rehabs and allows different looks.

The Knicks also have 3 guys who can be #3's on a legit contender also in OG, Mikal, and KAT. If Brunson can continue on the roll he was on late last season into the playoffs then maybe he can be a #1 like Tatum was for the Celtics. Looking at a 5 vs 5 against Boston though they're more formidable now than they were.

I got league pass this year and the Nova Knicks were at the top of my list to watch a lot of and this won't change much.

 

[Mainstreet]

As wrong as I was about Ayton being the second coming of the Admiral, I was as wrong on Ant but the other direction. I was 100% convinced that Ant's ceiling was no better than Starbury. He's proven me so very wrong with his skillset but I wouldn't be surprised if he follows Marbury's path and ends up eating vaseline by the handful on YouTube but if he does do that it will be on the Timberwolves owner ship group and GM.


I'm starting to come around on this move for New York. Hopefully KAT can handle the MSG crowd and produce but worst case is he's a more efficient and overall better version of Randle. Losing DiVincenzo hurts but New York has depth and there was already a question of how Mikal, OG, Hart, and Dante would share minutes at SG, SF, and PF. That's a formidable defensive trio in OG, Mikal, and Hart so KAT may skate by being a rim protector there. He made 2 All-Star teams in 3 years under Thibs in Minnesota so maybe this works. It gives them options while Mitchell Robinson rehabs and allows different looks.

The Knicks also have 3 guys who can be #3's on a legit contender also in OG, Mikal, and KAT. If Brunson can continue on the roll he was on late last season into the playoffs then maybe he can be a #1 like Tatum was for the Celtics. Looking at a 5 vs 5 against Boston though they're more formidable now than they were.

I got league pass this year and the Nova Knicks were at the top of my list to watch a lot of and this won't change much.

I like this trade for the Knicks a lot especially with Robinson out and they pick up a 28-year-old, four time NBA All Star in Towns. They have some nice talent, although they lost DiVincenzo.

I bet Timberwolves fans are a bit shaken by the trade.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It hasn't yet, but the ultimate answer to that question isn't set in stone yet, is it?

True, but so far they are more right than wrong.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

We don't bring it up out of the blue, it spins off from every other decision we make because that's the way our world works. If you're tired of reading about it, how about you metaphorically slap yourself and a few others around so you will stop talking about it. You'll still get the occasional anti-trade comments but the conversation dies if the other side isn't also pushing their position.

This isn't the first time you've made these points and once again, you lay all the blame on those of us that were convinced we were spending far too much for KD while ignoring the FACT that the pro KD people sometimes start this discussion but even when they don't, they always help escalate the argument.

You don't have to agree with us but if you don't want the conversation to continue, instead of making us out to be the bad guys just STOP making points that lead to us making further responses. This is one of those times where "both sides" are responsible for this never-ending conversation. Blaming just one side for this is unfair and unreasonable.

True. But it’s the anti crowd that always resurfaces the conversation.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Absolutely and more often than not the converstion is initiated by the people like me that always hated the trade. But why in the world would anyone expect us to ignore that trade when it impacts us regularly? And keep in mind, my post was in response to a poster who once again was laying it all on the anti-trade crowd. And I'm damned sure I made the point that it was "both sides" in my post.

I guess it’s tiresome bc no new point is ever raised. We already know every little detail of everyone’s position so rehashing it just comes off as gratuitous “told you so.” We don’t even have this level of “told you so” on the P&R board.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Because it happened?

Because a one time star is not a forever star. And you know this. Shaq is still alive and was all nba. Doesn’t mean he can still play at all much less at his star level. It’s a disingenuous argument.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Unfortunately, some ignore facts when it doesn't fit their perception. They don't want to hear it.

The Suns didn't choose to pay Beal $50 million plus over multiple years for nothing.

Are we to ignore he was a 3 x NBA All-star? It is what it is. It's not a matter of who is better, Durant or Beal.

Doubling down on this argument is now the most terrible argument on the board. I’ll repeat my nonsense argument to evidence how poor your logic is: shaq was a multi-year first team all nba player. We should sign him.

And we paid him $50M because due to our salary cap scenario it was the only way to acquire a high level (though not a star - no one in the nba would’ve given him $50M if he was a free agent) player at that juncture and ishbia is happy to burn money to win.

 

[Mainstreet]

Because a one time star is not a forever star. And you know this. Shaq is still alive and was all nba. Doesn’t mean he can still play at all much less at his star level. It’s a disingenuous argument.

Maybe if you wouldn't stand in judgement, discussion would go better.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I guess it’s tiresome bc no new point is ever raised. We already know every little detail of everyone’s position so rehashing it just comes off as gratuitous “told you so.” We don’t even have this level of “told you so” on the P&R board.

Of course it's tiresome. And while I know you're not talking about me or just me, I can't recall ever going the "I told you so" route, it's really not my nature. Nor do I ever initiate a conversation on this subject, because you're right, I've detailed my own viewpoint many times. But when there is pushback from the other side, often times from posters who clearly have either forgotten/misunderstood/misrepresented my comments or don't read every post here, it sometimes motivates me into responding despite having tired of this subject long ago.

 

[Mainstreet]

Doubling down on this argument is now the most terrible argument on the board. I’ll repeat my nonsense argument to evidence how poor your logic is: shaq was a multi-year first team all nba player. We should sign him.

And we paid him $50M because due to our salary cap scenario it was the only way to acquire a high level (though not a star - no one in the nba would’ve given him $50M if he was a free agent) player at that juncture and ishbia is happy to burn money to win.

Obviously the Suns thought Beal was worth it, but you ignore that.

It gets old when you start grading other people's opinion and make it personal.

 

[Mainstreet]

Because a one time star is not a forever star. And you know this. Shaq is still alive and was all nba. Doesn’t mean he can still play at all much less at his star level. It’s a disingenuous argument.

Bradley Beal was 30 last season. So what is your cutoff date on stars?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Actual topic for new discussion!

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Two guys I really dislike, swapped for each other.

The Minnesota locker room is going to be weird, Randle, Gobert and Edwards all seem somewhat difficult for their teammates to deal with.

Strange trade for the Knicks too. They do have some elite wing defenders, so they can somewhat cover for Towns' biggest warts. DiVincenzo has to be really bummed, the "Nova Knicks" never even got 1 game together.

Hadn’t heard ant being difficult. Where did this come from?

I think it’s a dangerous gamble for Knicks. Yeah randle wasn’t a good fit but they found something last season. Bringing in a KAT isn’t a tweak, it’s a feature. They got the most talented player but he’s soft and not a closer. Luckily they have Brunson for that role, but that team just lost some grit by addition of KAT.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Bradley Beal was 30 last season. So what is your cutoff date on stars?

When they stop playing like one. Age is a factor, but not the factor.

Forget it man. This isn’t a productive conversation for the board.

Apologies if you think this was personal. It was not. It was me expressing my opinion about why your opinion was extremely leaky.

 

[Mainstreet]

When they stop playing like one. Age is a factor, but not the factor.

Forget it man. This isn’t a productive conversation for the board.

Apologies if you think this was personal. It was not. It was me expressing my opinion about why your opinion was extremely leaky.

It's your choice of words like "disingenuous" that are a problem.

If you wanted to further discuss Bradley Beal no longer being a star, then there are good points to be made.

I don't mind if we disagree.

 

[Ronin]

Evan Sidery

@esidery
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5s

The Knicks announced they waived Marcus Morris and Chuma Okeke.New York opens up additional roster spots heading into training camp.