Suns @ Clippers Wednesday game thread, October 23rd, 2024: Season Opener

[Covert Rain]

Well, on the Durant subject, I think you're mistaken. I did watch every single game last season and I had the same concerns then. I think he's still a great player but I don't trust his decision making in critical moments or when facing a physical defender. Between dribbling the ball off his feet or stepping out of bounds or forcing up shots even when the double and triple team comes his way, I think we're better off with him playing a more complementary and more team-oriented role at this stage of his career.

As for not trusting my assessment of what we looked like in that game, that's certainly fair. But that's why I pointed out my lack of first hand knowledge of the situation. I don't think too highly of that Clippers roster (especially without Kawhi) and we were about as healthy as we could hope to be this season so it was disheartening to know that we struggled to just barely beat them. So when someone said that judging just by that game that we looked like pretenders, I upped the ante while acknowledging it was just one game.

And I don't believe I have "disdain for KD". I've long been a supporter of his going back to his year at Texas. I am disdainful (understatement of the century) of the trade we made for him but that's something else.

Hold on to that disdain for org decisions. If the guys on the radio are correct, it sounds like both sides are interested in Durant finishing his career here. They passed on the one-year deal this year knowing that Durant would be eligible for more money later. Plus, with the increase in the cap that there was a possibility of him finishing his career here and signing one last contract. If I remember correctly that would mean that would be towards the end of Books contract. So, IMO, if they blow it up that will include moving Booker right around the time Durant is done. Naturally, Durant can be fickle and decide not to resign here, or this could go south and we move him before.

 

[Chaplin]

Well, on the Durant subject, I think you're mistaken. I did watch every single game last season and I had the same concerns then. I think he's still a great player but I don't trust his decision making in critical moments or when facing a physical defender. Between dribbling the ball off his feet or stepping out of bounds or forcing up shots even when the double and triple team comes his way, I think we're better off with him playing a more complementary and more team-oriented role at this stage of his career.

As for not trusting my assessment of what we looked like in that game, that's certainly fair. But that's why I pointed out my lack of first hand knowledge of the situation. I don't think too highly of that Clippers roster (especially without Kawhi) and we were about as healthy as we could hope to be this season so it was disheartening to know that we struggled to just barely beat them. So when someone said that judging just by that game that we looked like pretenders, I upped the ante while acknowledging it was just one game.

And I don't believe I have "disdain for KD". I've long been a supporter of his going back to his year at Texas. I am disdainful (understatement of the century) of the trade we made for him but that's something else.

He had 3 Clippers draped all over him on that last shot that he made, so sure, in some cases your first paragraph is applicable, but in that case it wasn't. At least not at the end of the game. This was without Book on the floor. The only other option besides Durant was Beal. Who would you rather take the last shot? Hot/Cold or one of the greatest scorers in NBA history?

And this whole tearing down of the Suns because the Clippers were missing Kawhi is ridiculous. You are well familiar with the NBA, in a lot of the first games missing a star player teams almost always play above their talent level. This was also the very first game in a brand new arena against Kevin Durant and Devin Booker. There is a context to these things. Sure, it would have been nice to blow out this Clipper team, but it was also our first game too. And with a new coach and system, no less.

 

[BirdGangThing]

these rookies could do wonders for our cap space

 

[Covert Rain]

He had 3 Clippers draped all over him on that last shot that he made, so sure, in some cases your first paragraph is applicable, but in that case it wasn't. At least not at the end of the game. This was without Book on the floor. The only other option besides Durant was Beal. Who would you rather take the last shot? Hot/Cold or one of the greatest scorers in NBA history?

And this whole tearing down of the Suns because the Clippers were missing Kawhi is ridiculous. You are well familiar with the NBA, in a lot of the first games missing a star player teams almost always play above their talent level. This was also the very first game in a brand new arena against Kevin Durant and Devin Booker. There is a context to these things. Sure, it would have been nice to blow out this Clipper team, but it was also our first game too. And with a new coach and system, no less.

Can't emphasize that last sentence enough. The Suns looked completely lost at times implementing Vogel's new system especially at the start of the season.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Hold on to that disdain for org decisions. If the guys on the radio are correct, it sounds like both sides are interested in Durant finishing his career here. They passed on the one-year deal this year knowing that Durant would be eligible for more money later. Plus, with the increase in the cap that there was a possibility of him finishing his career here and signing one last contract. If I remember correctly that would mean that would be towards the end of Books contract. So, IMO, if they blow it up that will include moving Booker right around the time Durant is done. Naturally, Durant can be fickle and decide not to resign here, or this could go south and we move him before.

I really don't know what to do with KD going forward. We need another star and warts and all, KD is still a star. And he still draws star level defensive attention. I think adding a year or two to his deal is a huge gamble but so is just letting his contract play out.

I'd hate to be the one making that call especially under the new rules. I think I'd lean (barely) towards the extension but if more comes out suggesting he's declining or not fitting into Bud's system, I'd try to flip him if the opportunity arises even if it doesn't bring back star level return.

 

[Chaplin]

I really don't know what to do with KD going forward. We need another star and warts and all, KD is still a star. And he still draws star level defensive attention. I think adding a year or two to his deal is a huge gamble but so is just letting his contract play out.

I'd hate to be the one making that call especially under the new rules. I think I'd lean (barely) towards the extension but if more comes out suggesting he's declining or not fitting into Bud's system, I'd try to flip him if the opportunity arises even if it doesn't bring back star level return.

That's definitely fair. I'm glad they didn't do the extension this summer, although they can still do it in short order, but I'd be interested to see how his body holds up this season. If he puts in another 70+ games, that's a good sign IMO.

 

[Superbone]

Well, on the Durant subject, I think you're mistaken. I did watch every single game last season and I had the same concerns then. I think he's still a great player but I don't trust his decision making in critical moments or when facing a physical defender. Between dribbling the ball off his feet or stepping out of bounds or forcing up shots even when the double and triple team comes his way, I think we're better off with him playing a more complementary and more team-oriented role at this stage of his career.

As for not trusting my assessment of what we looked like in that game, that's certainly fair. But that's why I pointed out my lack of first hand knowledge of the situation. I don't think too highly of that Clippers roster (especially without Kawhi) and we were about as healthy as we could hope to be this season so it was disheartening to know that we struggled to just barely beat them. So when someone said that judging just by that game that we looked like pretenders, I upped the ante while acknowledging it was just one game.

And I don't believe I have "disdain for KD". I've long been a supporter of his going back to his year at Texas. I am disdainful (understatement of the century) of the trade we made for him but that's something else.

Thanks, Steve. I understand a high disdain for the trade. I too think we gave up way too much for an aging superstar. Glad you don't hold it against Durant personally. And I agree with you about his decision making and ball handling. I hope Coach Bud continues to minimize that and just get him the ball closer to launch, so to speak.

Your downplaying of the Clippers team is what showed the most since you didn't watch the game. They were scrappy as hell. It didn't help that the refs let them get away with a lot of contact, holding, and fouling. Quite a few of our turnovers were caused by this excessive contact. Plus, as Main mentioned, Lue is a hell of a coach and had the perfect strategy against this Suns team especially with what the refs let them get away with. Not to mention (I guess I just did), the opening of a brand new, state-of-the-art, raucous arena environment that the Suns had to overcome. This is where your lack of viewing showed the most.

 

[BirdGangThing]

enough with the kd blasphemy

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[AzStevenCal]

Thanks, Steve. I understand a high disdain for the trade. I too think we gave up way too much for an aging superstar. Glad you don't hold it against Durant personally. And I agree with you about his decision making and ball handling. I hope Coach Bud continues to minimize that and just get him the ball closer to launch, so to speak.

Your downplaying of the Clippers team is what showed the most since you didn't watch the game. They were scrappy as hell. It didn't help that the refs let them get away with a lot of contact, holding, and fouling. Quite a few of our turnovers were caused by this excessive contact. Plus, as Main mentioned, Lue is a hell of a coach and had the perfect strategy against this Suns team especially with what the refs let them get away with. Not to mention (I guess I just did), the opening of a brand new, state-of-the-art, raucous arena environment that the Suns had to overcome. This is where your lack of viewing showed the most.

They were very scrappy and IMO Lue is the best coach in the game right now. They will win a lot of games on coaching and effort but I just don't see them being a good team. But coaching and effort won't be enough, I'd be surprised if they reached the mid 40's in wins unless one of the younger players goes ballistic.

 

[Covert Rain]

They were very scrappy and IMO Lue is the best coach in the game right now. They will win a lot of games on coaching and effort but I just don't see them being a good team. But coaching and effort won't be enough, I'd be surprised if they reached the mid 40's in wins unless one of the younger players goes ballistic.

If we can get solid contribution from our new additions, Beal and Durant stay healthy and there really were coaching issues last year? I wouldn't be shocked if we are in the low 50 range. Many if's but possible.

 

[Superbone]

They were very scrappy and IMO Lue is the best coach in the game right now. They will win a lot of games on coaching and effort but I just don't see them being a good team. But coaching and effort won't be enough, I'd be surprised if they reached the mid 40's in wins unless one of the younger players goes ballistic.

I am not denying that. I'm just saying they're not an easy out.

 

[GatorAZ]

Thanks, Steve. I understand a high disdain for the trade. I too think we gave up way too much for an aging superstar. Glad you don't hold it against Durant personally. And I agree with you about his decision making and ball handling. I hope Coach Bud continues to minimize that and just get him the ball closer to launch, so to speak.

Your downplaying of the Clippers team is what showed the most since you didn't watch the game. They were scrappy as hell. It didn't help that the refs let them get away with a lot of contact, holding, and fouling. Quite a few of our turnovers were caused by this excessive contact. Plus, as Main mentioned, Lue is a hell of a coach and had the perfect strategy against this Suns team especially with what the refs let them get away with. Not to mention (I guess I just did), the opening of a brand new, state-of-the-art, raucous arena environment that the Suns had to overcome. This is where your lack of viewing showed the most.

We got away with hacking in that game as well but last foul on Book was trash. All in all the Clipps got called for 29 fouls, Suns 23. I don’t think we can fully judge KD until tonight to see if his passing/dribbling from the other night was an anomaly.

 

[Hoop Head]

He had 3 Clippers draped all over him on that last shot that he made, so sure, in some cases your first paragraph is applicable, but in that case it wasn't. At least not at the end of the game. This was without Book on the floor. The only other option besides Durant was Beal. Who would you rather take the last shot? Hot/Cold or one of the greatest scorers in NBA history?

And this whole tearing down of the Suns because the Clippers were missing Kawhi is ridiculous. You are well familiar with the NBA, in a lot of the first games missing a star player teams almost always play above their talent level. This was also the very first game in a brand new arena against Kevin Durant and Devin Booker. There is a context to these things. Sure, it would have been nice to blow out this Clipper team, but it was also our first game too. And with a new coach and system, no less.

Isn't this a bit contradictory? Booker is out and no one stepped up and had what could be considered an above average game for the Suns. Granted Booker only missed 3-4 minutes in the 4th and OT. Meanwhile Kawhi was out the entire game. So why didn't the other Suns step up, including KD, since Booker wasnt out there?

 

[CardNots]

Well, on the Durant subject, I think you're mistaken. I did watch every single game last season and I had the same concerns then. I think he's still a great player but I don't trust his decision making in critical moments or when facing a physical defender. Between dribbling the ball off his feet or stepping out of bounds or forcing up shots even when the double and triple team comes his way, I think we're better off with him playing a more complementary and more team-oriented role at this stage of his career.

As for not trusting my assessment of what we looked like in that game, that's certainly fair. But that's why I pointed out my lack of first hand knowledge of the situation. I don't think too highly of that Clippers roster (especially without Kawhi) and we were about as healthy as we could hope to be this season so it was disheartening to know that we struggled to just barely beat them. So when someone said that judging just by that game that we looked like pretenders, I upped the ante while acknowledging it was just one game.

And I don't believe I have "disdain for KD". I've long been a supporter of his going back to his year at Texas. I am disdainful (understatement of the century) of the trade we made for him but that's something else.

Away from home, home opener of new arena and home team officiating a win is an accomplishment.

Factor in new coaching staff, philosophy changes, new faces and real point guards I’m surprised we didn’t lose the game.

Any critiques this early tells the mindset of the member posters more than the state of the team.

 

[Hoop Head]

Oh I don't know because you didn't specify that he was selfish in that game, but a generalization that he is selfish. Maybe make that more clear if you don't want the push back.

So I need to state I'm talking about a specific game in a game thread so you can follow along? Really shouldn't be difficult. Maybe I need some crayons to spell it out for you.

I will say he plays selfish regularly as he gets too caught up trying to go tit for tat with opposing players. It hasn't led to success in years.

You say his #1 job on offense is to score and that's a great theory but he wasn't doing that well. Shot under 50% while giving up 7 turnovers and 0 assists. How someone plays 44 minutes without an assist is a bit mind boggling especially since he clearly had the ball in his hands a lot. Does that seem team oriented?

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

So I need to state I'm talking about a specific game in a game thread so you can follow along? Really shouldn't be difficult. Maybe I need some crayons to spell it out for you.

I will say he plays selfish regularly as he gets too caught up trying to go tit for tat with opposing players. It hasn't led to success in years.

You say his #1 job on offense is to score and that's a great theory but he wasn't doing that well. Shot under 50% while giving up 7 turnovers and 0 assists. How someone plays 44 minutes without an assist is a bit mind boggling especially since he clearly had the ball in his hands a lot. Does that seem team oriented?

So now you are admitting that you think he is selfish quite often and not just in that game? What was the point of all the back and forth over "this game" then? Also "He can score 25 because he's selfish" in no way suggested you were referring to a single game. "He got 25 because he played a selfish game" would have been much more clear.

 

[Chaplin]

Isn't this a bit contradictory? Booker is out and no one stepped up and had what could be considered an above average game for the Suns. Granted Booker only missed 3-4 minutes in the 4th and OT. Meanwhile Kawhi was out the entire game. So why didn't the other Suns step up, including KD, since Booker wasnt out there?

Are you just trolling? Are you serious?

Ty Lue was able to gameplan the entire game without Kawhi. Book fouled out with like 4 minutes left in the game. And who stepped up? KD did. To think otherwise is just hating.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Away from home, home opener of new arena and home team officiating a win is an accomplishment.

Factor in new coaching staff, philosophy changes, new faces and real point guards I’m surprised we didn’t lose the game.

Any critiques this early tells the mindset of the member posters more than the state of the team.

I'd agree if we hadn't made it clear we were just talking about one game and projecting what we'd be this season if that one game was indicative of our team. I doubt any of us actually expect that to be the team we see for the rest of the season, but I see nothing wrong with thinking poorly of that performance and hoping we'll be much better than we showed in game one.

 

[CardNots]

I'd agree if we hadn't made it clear we were just talking about one game and projecting what we'd be this season if that one game was indicative of our team. I doubt any of us actually expect that to be the team we see for the rest of the season, but I see nothing wrong with thinking poorly of that performance and hoping we'll be much better than we showed in game one.

I don’t see anything wrong.

Only pointing out it provides insight of frame of mind of the posters.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If we can get solid contribution from our new additions, Beal and Durant stay healthy and there really were coaching issues last year? I wouldn't be shocked if we are in the low 50 range. Many if's but possible.

I think we're in the low to mid 50 win area even if we do lose a key player or two from 6 to 8 weeks, I think we are deep enough to survive that. And that's how I felt before the Clippers game too.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think we're in the low to mid 50 win area even if we do lose a key player or two from 6 to 8 weeks, I think we are deep enough to survive that. And that's how I felt before the Clippers game too.

I have not put a number on it yet. I am actually surprised nobody put up a win prediction poll yet.

 

[Mainstreet]

I couldn't tell if Grayson first tipped the ball before it got to Harden or Harden mishandled it and then Grayson tipped the ball.

I think the ball was off Harden's hands and Grayson Allen took control of it.

 

[Chaplin]

I have not put a number on it yet. I am actually surprised nobody put up a win prediction poll yet.

This year is going to be especially difficult to predict. We appear to be better than last year, but we were still winners of 49 games last year, which isn't awful. If we predict 53 or 54 wins, that's only 4 or 5 more than we did last year. Thinking about all the times we lost games in the 4th quarter, if we eliminate those, it's definitely possible we'll improve by much more than just 4 games. Just an example.

 

[Muggz]

I'm gonna need 65+ wins or WTF are we doing here?
The Clippers wasn't a pretty win but I'll take it.
First real game with alot of new players in an Arena that the Clippers DID NOT want to lose the first ever game in.
A win is a win
That means the Suns closed out Staples with a win over the Lakers AND opened the new Arena with a win over the Clippers.
Perspective

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm gonna need 65+ wins or WTF are we doing here?
The Clippers wasn't a pretty win but I'll take it.
First real game with alot of new players in an Arena that the Clippers DID NOT want to lose the first ever game in.
A win is a win
That means the Suns closed out Staples with a win over the Lakers AND opened the new Arena with a win over the Clippers.
Perspective

And the Suns survived "The Wall." Malika Andrews and others discuss it.

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