10 thoughts - Seahawks game

[Russ Smith]

Regarding cap space etc one of the things that ticked me off the last 2 Seattle games. When Leonard Williams was on the block I said we should look into him, not a great player but a good player and still young enough to be a good piece to acquire relatively cheap. Which time? Actually both. He's 30 now so not young but he was 25 I think the first time and 28-29 the 2nd.

The Jets traded him to the Giants for a 3rd and 5th, and he helped the Giants. Then the Giants traded him to Seattle later for a 2nd and a 5th.

You could argue both times the Cards should have been interested in the deal. Williams destroyed us both times this season. You look at how little push we get without having to blitz and that's the type of guy we need.
I'd be fine with not going after guys like that if I thought Keim and now Monty had a better plan but I don't think we've seen it yet.

Kyler's 3 picks in the 2 games were all killers but the primary takeaway from the 2 games for me is their DL beat the pants off our OL. And Leonard Williams was the primary reason why

 

[Gandhi]

Unfortunately, we are stuck with Murray until 2028. All we can do until then is build the rest of the roster and hopefully we can find his replacement.

I don’t know about that, GC. If Murray is on the roster on the fifth day of next league year, over 39 million from 2026 becomes fully guaranteed. But if traded after this season, his cap hit for the Cards would be 33 million, while Michael Bidwill would actually 11 million in cash. In other words, the cap hit is very manageble, and relative to the contract it would actually be beneficial to Bidwill to get out of it after this season, provided that he will not keep Murray until the end.

 

[Gandhi]

If he is such a “ superstar” and there are a lot of teams that would love him then let’s find out who those teams are.

I don’t doubt at all that they are there, Slanidrac. In fact, I think that he is very tradable. First, his new team will only be on the hook for his 33 million-salary in 2025 as there will be no guarantees left after that year for a new team (that language is in the contract). That is not at all expensive for a quarterback, and it would give that team a one-year try-out before deciding what to do with Murray.

Second, his potential is huge, and there are tons of coaches that will be sure that they are the exact right one to unlock that potential. And relative to the quarterback-market this offseason (free agency and draft), general managers would be thrilled to take a chance on Murray.

Even owners would be lining up to add a potential superstar that are exciting and entertaining to the fans.

I would expect at the very least a first round pick and more.

 

[Gandhi]

I love him. Win or lose, he's got the greatest attitude. I prefer win, but if we have to lose I'd prefer his character.

I actually think that is a good argument, DD. I have thought several times how Baker Mayfield must be such a great quarterback to have. Not because he is perfect, but because he is a great leader as he gives absolutely everything he has. Just last week he made a big block to help his runner, and the week before he almost broke his arm (Nick Bosa was pulling it with full power) to make a throw on third down.

To me, the NFL is a lot about excitement, and having your team tied to someone you would go to war with is exciting to me, and I understand if you see Winston in that light.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

I would expect at the very least a first round pick and more.

A first round pick and the team has to pay $33 mil in salary?

That's pretty steep and I'm not sure how many teams are able to do that or willing to

 

[schutd]

So she was a prostitute?

gross

 

[GeorgiaCard88]

A first round pick and the team has to pay $33 mil in salary?

That's pretty steep and I'm not sure how many teams are able to do that or willing to

That's not bad at all for a starting caliber QB if true.

My biggest problem is get rid of Kyler to what end? I don't believe in shadeur sanders- I'll go on record now, I think the kid has high bust potential. No one else in this draft is sticking out either. The more i think about it- the more I think you keep Kyler until 2026 to at least keep the team somewhat competitive- then sell the farm

 

[Stout]

That's not bad at all for a starting caliber QB if true.

My biggest problem is get rid of Kyler to what end? I don't believe in shadeur sanders- I'll go on record now, I think the kid has high bust potential. No one else in this draft is sticking out either. The more i think about it- the more I think you keep Kyler until 2026 to at least keep the team somewhat competitive- then sell the farm

I'd rather forego another lost season and enter the great unknown of FA/trades/draft and try to upgrade. We should, at all times, be trying to make this roster better. Keeping Kyler just tells the team and the fanbase they aren't serious about winning for yet another season.

 

[602 Native]

I'd rather forego another lost season and enter the great unknown of FA/trades/draft and try to upgrade. We should, at all times, be trying to make this roster better. Keeping Kyler just tells the team and the fanbase they aren't serious about winning for yet another season.

Absolute craziness given the history of the Cards inability to scout talent especially at the QB spot. MO drafted a total dud in Clayton Tune yet he is going to get us a replacement for K1.

“Lost season” more likely a lost decade.

 

[Oklahoma Card]

I know I’m going to get laughed off this board but I think Jameis Winston would be awesome in this offense.
I know he throws picks but he also puts a lot of points on the board.
Plus, I think god is going to answer his prayers to not throw pick sixes next year.

I would love to have Winston over Murray.

 

[Stout]

Absolute craziness given the history of the Cards inability to scout talent especially at the QB spot. MO drafted a total dud in Clayton Tune yet he is going to get us a replacement for K1.

“Lost season” more likely a lost decade.

I hear you. I'm definitely not in the majority here. I could see a path where Kyler is kept while the Cards go all out to get his replacement in. His trade value would fall, so that isn't my preference, but we cannot wait to find the next Cards QB.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Absolute craziness given the history of the Cards inability to scout talent especially at the QB spot. MO drafted a total dud in Clayton Tune yet he is going to get us a replacement for K1.

“Lost season” more likely a lost decade.

Kyler’s entire tenure has been over half of a lost decade. Continuing on this path only ensures we get closer to the full lost decade you mentioned above.

Make the change. Seattle did it with Wilson three years ago and are headed to the playoffs for the second time in 3 years with a journeyman QB. The Broncos did it last year and are headed to the playoffs with a rookie QB most people trashed at the beginning of the season as one of the worst ever. The Vikings did it last year and are in the hunt for home field advantage in the NFC.

Continuing on with the QB at the head of the snake responsible for the failure of the last six years is the definition of insanity.

 

[slanidrac16]

I don’t doubt at all that they are there, Slanidrac. In fact, I think that he is very tradable. First, his new team will only be on the hook for his 33 million-salary in 2025 as there will be no guarantees left after that year for a new team (that language is in the contract). That is not at all expensive for a quarterback, and it would give that team a one-year try-out before deciding what to do with Murray.

Second, his potential is huge, and there are tons of coaches that will be sure that they are the exact right one to unlock that potential. And relative to the quarterback-market this offseason (free agency and draft), general managers would be thrilled to take a chance on Murray.

Even owners would be lining up to add a potential superstar that are exciting and entertaining to the fans.

I would expect at the very least a first round pick and more.

But the one major factor is Bidwill. He is never going to “ eat “ 33m and then pay another Qb any significant amount of money.
If and by some miracle Bidwill did, it would be a guy like Brissett. Sadly, all I want in return is a Qb that can get the ball out in rhythm and to the right receiver.
Kyler , outside of a splash play here and there is JAQ, just another qb. We’ve been waiting for 6 years hearing one excuse after another. I’m done.

 

[Goodyear Card]

As of today, Murray's 2025 Salary and Roster bonus is guaranteed. That is $30M. The option bonus for 2025 is $7.2M. He also has $7.2M option bonus for 2026 and 2027. I am not sure when they would have to be paid if he released. There is also $7M in signing bonus that will count against the cap if he is released.

Releasing Murray before the 2025 season would be a minimum of a $44M cap hit and could be as high $58M.

In 2026, $36.8M of salary and roster bonus are guaranteed. Plus $11M in option and signing bonus.

I don't see any way the Cardinals are going to eat almost $50M dollars to release Murray. Also, you need to have someone better to replace him. There is no backup plan.

This is the last and maybe the worst of Steve Kiem's failures.

 

[slanidrac16]

As of today, Murray's 2025 Salary and Roster bonus is guaranteed. That is $30M. The option bonus for 2025 is $7.2M. He also has $7.2M option bonus for 2026 and 2027. I am not sure when they would have to be paid if he released. There is also $7M in signing bonus that will count against the cap if he is released.

Releasing Murray before the 2025 season would be a minimum of a $44M cap hit and could be as high $58M.

In 2026, $36.8M of salary and roster bonus are guaranteed. Plus $11M in option and signing bonus.

I don't see any way the Cardinals are going to eat almost $50M dollars to release Murray. Also, you need to have someone better to replace him. There is no backup plan.

This is the last and maybe the worst of Steve Kiem's failures.

However, Denver somehow , someway moved off a bazillion dollar contract with Wilson and found themselves a dynamic young qb that can stand in the pocket, throw on time and complete downfield passes.

 

[akg102]

gross

Last I checked, there's a presumption of innocence in these United States of America. He was never convicted, never criminally charged. The only information we have is that she sued him right before the 2015 NFL draft for an incident that supposedly happened in 2012.

She was so emotionally distressed that she wanted a check instead of justice. Winston counter-sued her for defamation immediately after.

 

[Cardsmasochist]

Absolute craziness given the history of the Cards inability to scout talent especially at the QB spot. MO drafted a total dud in Clayton Tune yet he is going to get us a replacement for K1.

“Lost season” more likely a lost decade.

Since the franchise moved to AZ the Cardinals average one or two good to great seasons per decade.

They looked good with Lomax until his injury in the late 80’s.

Plummer beat the Cowboys in the playoffs in the 90’s

Warner got us to the Superbowl in the aughts

Arians and Palmer had a couple of great seasons until they choked in the playoffs last decade.

We’ll probably get a good season this decade, too. They will give you a taste of success before the inevitable collapse.

This is the Bidwill way

 

[Lomax to Green 84]

Gannon and Ossenfort won’t do this because it isn’t their style, but they should bring Kyler in for a sit down meeting this week and tell him that the next 4 weeks are an audition to determine his future with the team. This accomplishes 2 things: Kyler finally faces reality and we see if he can handle the pressure. At the least, sit him down and say that the next 4 weeks will determine if we bring in a new QB to replace him or to compete if he doesn’t show marked improvement.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

As of today, Murray's 2025 Salary and Roster bonus is guaranteed. That is $30M. The option bonus for 2025 is $7.2M. He also has $7.2M option bonus for 2026 and 2027. I am not sure when they would have to be paid if he released. There is also $7M in signing bonus that will count against the cap if he is released.

Releasing Murray before the 2025 season would be a minimum of a $44M cap hit and could be as high $58M.

In 2026, $36.8M of salary and roster bonus are guaranteed. Plus $11M in option and signing bonus.

I don't see any way the Cardinals are going to eat almost $50M dollars to release Murray. Also, you need to have someone better to replace him. There is no backup plan.

This is the last and maybe the worst of Steve Kiem's failures.

We have cap space this year. Can we move any of his bonus to this year to avoid some of the dead cap in 2026?

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

You guys do know that Jameis is a rapist/sex-pest, right? @D-Dogg @Cbus cardsfan

Damn, his PR team really should not

He get convicted of rape? Or is he a payoff rapist like big ben?

From what I read, he didn't pay, FSU paid her a settlement.

 

[BirdGangThing]

As of today, Murray's 2025 Salary and Roster bonus is guaranteed. That is $30M. The option bonus for 2025 is $7.2M. He also has $7.2M option bonus for 2026 and 2027. I am not sure when they would have to be paid if he released. There is also $7M in signing bonus that will count against the cap if he is released.

Releasing Murray before the 2025 season would be a minimum of a $44M cap hit and could be as high $58M.

In 2026, $36.8M of salary and roster bonus are guaranteed. Plus $11M in option and signing bonus.

I don't see any way the Cardinals are going to eat almost $50M dollars to release Murray. Also, you need to have someone better to replace him. There is no backup plan.

This is the last and maybe the worst of Steve Kiem's failures.

not only are we keeping kyler next year but he's going to light it up during this meaningless month - it's what he does after craptacular performances - and it'll reak havoc on our draft position

 

[Gandhi]

But the one major factor is Bidwill. He is never going to “ eat “ 33m and then pay another Qb any significant amount of money.

He will not pay 33 million. A new team will do that. They will only go as a cap hit, but the salary cap is just an accounting tool. Bidwill would save money by trading him, and the dead money cap hit is very manageable.

If and by some miracle Bidwill did, it would be a guy like Brissett. Sadly, all I want in return is a Qb that can get the ball out in rhythm and to the right receiver.

I hear you. I would go after Justin Fields. I think that he is the best bet to have a revival like Sam Darnold, Geno Smith, or Baker Mayfield. I even think that Fields would be a good fit in Petzing’s offense.

 

[iLLmatiC]

Kyler’s entire tenure has been over half of a lost decade. Continuing on this path only ensures we get closer to the full lost decade you mentioned above.

Make the change. Seattle did it with Wilson three years ago and are headed to the playoffs for the second time in 3 years with a journeyman QB. The Broncos did it last year and are headed to the playoffs with a rookie QB most people trashed at the beginning of the season as one of the worst ever. The Vikings did it last year and are in the hunt for home field advantage in the NFC.

Continuing on with the QB at the head of the snake responsible for the failure of the last six years is the definition of insanity.

Sunk cost fallacy. No need to continue down this path with Kyler, we know who he is after 5 years being in the NFL. He's now been in two different coaching regimes and we're seeing the same problems.

 

[iLLmatiC]

Gannon and Ossenfort won’t do this because it isn’t their style, but they should bring Kyler in for a sit down meeting this week and tell him that the next 4 weeks are an audition to determine his future with the team. This accomplishes 2 things: Kyler finally faces reality and we see if he can handle the pressure. At the least, sit him down and say that the next 4 weeks will determine if we bring in a new QB to replace him or to compete if he doesn’t show marked improvement.

He doesn't do well under pressure so that's not going to work out in his favor.

 

[daves]

Second, his potential is huge, and there are tons of coaches that will be sure that they are the exact right one to unlock that potential.

The idea that anyone in the league still believes that Murray has "huge potential" but that the Cardinals just haven't been able to find it in six seasons with two coaching staffs stretches credulity.

And relative to the quarterback-market this offseason (free agency and draft), general managers would be thrilled to take a chance on Murray.

It's also hard for me to imagine a team being "thrilled" to take on a guy that the Cardinals, in this scenario, would be eager to be rid of.

Even owners would be lining up to add a potential superstar that are exciting and entertaining to the fans.

Again... who still sees Murray as a "potential superstar"? He's had six seasons to demonstrate that potential and hasn't been able to do it consistently for more than a 7-game stretch in the first half of one season.



P.S. I think this thread has been hijacked - perhaps the mods should move the last couple of pages of posts to the Murray Debate thread.