2024-2025 Around the NBA Thread

[hcsilla]

The Thunder don't do that PG13 deal if they don't control their own picks for the following 5 years. There is no parallel for our current situation. It is uniquely terrible.

We are in bad shape and probably should blow it up... but we also don't get any realistic benefit from blowing it up for another 6 years.

Unless the blow-up happens hand-in-hand with getting back our picks.

 

[Hoop Head]

Unless the blow-up happens hand-in-hand with getting back our picks.

Houston holds all the cards. Smart for a conference foe to acquire those picks, especially since they're looking to move up into the playoffs and add a primary scorer. They hold a lot of leverage over us by essentially holding the keys to our tank.

Any sort of rebuild needs to start with re-acquiring our picks. Until that's done, it's all pointless. There's a reason the Nets didn't go all in after trading Harden, Kyrie, and KD. It makes no sense if you don't hold your own picks. Once they retained those they put "For Sale" signs on everyone else.

 

[AzStevenCal]

No, I get your point but I'm not sure you are getting mine. I don't see a future where Suns fans accept being one of the worst teams in the league without our own picks. A 500 future fighting for play-ins is a more acceptable future than bottoming out entirely.

And there's the disconnect. I do not believe we have a choice. We WILL bottom out and we WILL be one of the worst teams in the league, it's just a matter of when we do it and how long it will last.

So the question is, from my perspective, do we bottom out right away and potentially shorten our time in hell or do we delay hitting bottom which will almost ensure that our misery lasts much longer. If we do it right away we might even have a young stable of players 3 or 4 years from now that we can enjoy watching develop even though we won't be very competitive. But at least hope and enjoyment could return to the fanbase.

Obviously if anyone still believes we can turn this team around and get a shot at a championship, they're not going to like my suggestion. I'm just not sure why fans that agree we are screwed (and will be screwed for a long time) would prefer to stay the course. Trading Booker while he is still in his prime seems a better choice than waiting for age and injury to bring his value down. Similar points apply to KD, Beal, Nurkic and the other vets. None of them are likely to improve their value and the ones that are already negative value are just going to see that worsen.

I don't believe we have a good path forward. And I'm not at all positive my suggestion will work especially given the new salary cap. So many of the teams that might be willing to pursue one of our vets are likely to be dealing with their own cap problems and if they're over the first or second apron, that could present challenges and reduce the trading pool. But if we haven't cleared the deck and recieved at least some assets in return for our veterans before they lose all value, I'm not sure a decade of misery won't become a huge understatement.

 

[Hoop Head]

And there's the disconnect. I do not believe we have a choice. We WILL bottom out and we WILL be one of the worst teams in the league, it's just a matter of when we do it and how long it will last.

So the question is, from my perspective, do we bottom out right away and potentially shorten our time in hell or do we delay hitting bottom which will almost ensure that our misery lasts much longer. If we do it right away we might even have a young stable of players 3 or 4 years from now that we can enjoy watching develop even though we won't be very competitive. But at least hope and enjoyment could return to the fanbase.

Obviously if anyone still believes we can turn this team around and get a shot at a championship, they're not going to like my suggestion. I'm just not sure why fans that agree we are screwed (and will be screwed for a long time) would prefer to stay the course. Trading Booker while he is still in his prime seems a better choice than waiting for age and injury to bring his value down. Similar points apply to KD, Beal, Nurkic and the other vets. None of them are likely to improve their value and the ones that are already negative value are just going to see that worsen.

I don't believe we have a good path forward. And I'm not at all positive my suggestion will work especially given the new salary cap. So many of the teams that might be willing to pursue one of our vets are likely to be dealing with their own cap problems and if they're over the first or second apron, that could present challenges and reduce the trading pool. But if we haven't cleared the deck and recieved at least some assets in return for our veterans before they lose all value, I'm not sure a decade of misery won't become a huge understatement.

I don't think we have a choice but to hope and pray for a miracle. Bottoming out is inevitable but doing so now, before we reap the full benefits of the lottery picks we'd be handing over, is setting a terrible environment for fans and the players here. There'd be no hope. We'd know for a fact we'd strike out and it would be like refusing to the leave the dug out. I'm not ok conceding those picks and more than a half decade because staying the course, albeit not a great path forward, has the opportunity for some small break. I know we'll need to regroup eventually, that's inevitable, but it doesn't make sense to pre-emptively throw in the towel and forfeit before the fight starts. Any players we'd be picking over the next 2 drafts would have extensions coming up or kicking in when we control our own picks. We'd also be negotiating a new CBA. There's so much that occurs between now and then that I don't see the logic in saying "We'll be prepared for that if we start now" when we could start closer to 2030 and at least see the contracts, players, and layout of the league 2 years ahead. We could sign someone to a max extension today and that deal will be expired by the time we'll be ready for a proper rebuild, since that's when we'll control our picks. That's looking too far down the road and giving up too much, IMO.

I think a better course of action would be trying to find a way to flip KD and Beal so Booker would be the elder star in a new Big 3 or Big 2 system built specifically to highlight his strengths.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The Thunder don't do that PG13 deal if they don't control their own picks for the following 5 years. There is no parallel for our current situation. It is uniquely terrible.

We are in bad shape and probably should blow it up... but we also don't get any realistic benefit from blowing it up for another 6 years.

The KD trade is well on it's way to being the most damaging trade in NBA history. A situation so dire that we're praying some team will overpay for a dude who has been loyal through thick and thin, lured other stars in and has never created drama, he should be the Suns version of Fitz... but the KD trade is so putrid that we need this guy's trade value to... somewhat, mitigate, the colossal damage previous trades have done to the franchise.

So instead of mitigating the damage and giving yourself at least a chance to get better with massive cap space and future picks to trade in a scenario where we trade Booker/Durant, you’d just rather cut off the nose to spite your face.

All so we can watch a Washington Wizards level team with Booker leading the way… a team that will STILL stink, still lose lottery picks but won’t have done anything to prepare for the future. Great idea.

As for Booker being the Larry for the Suns, that line of thinking totally ignores the amount of money and cap allocated to both and how that effects rounding out the team around them.… a one-dimensional Booker chokes 1/3 of the cap while Larry never came close to that.

 

[Ronin]

Evan Sidery

@esidery
·
16m

The Bulls have been unable to generate much of a trade market for Nikola Vucevic, per
@WindhorstESPN
/
@TimBontemps
(https://espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/42934439/nba-trade-deadline-intel-warriors-heat-major-decisions).Zach LaVine and Vucevic might be stuck in Chicago throughout this season due to their contract situations.

 

[95pro]

Evan Sidery
@esidery
·
16m

The Bulls have been unable to generate much of a trade market for Nikola Vucevic, per
@WindhorstESPN
/
@TimBontemps
(https://espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/42934439/nba-trade-deadline-intel-warriors-heat-major-decisions).Zach LaVine and Vucevic might be stuck in Chicago throughout this season due to their contract situations.

Which mean about the same for Nurk.

 

[Ronin]

Evan Sidery

@esidery
·
2h

In trade talks between the Nets and Warriors, Cam Johnson appears to be their top target.Brooklyn would likely require Jonathan Kuminga in any potential deal.After failed extension talks with Kuminga, Golden State could prefer paying Johnson only $65.5 million through 2027.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Heat trade Thomas Bryant to the Pacers for a 2nd round pick.

This is the type of trade that could have helped the Suns.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Mainstreet]

It sounds like the Pacers got Bryant for a swap of a future second round pick. He is on a veteran minimum contract.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[95pro]

The Heat trade Thomas Bryant to the Pacers for a 2nd round pick.

This is the type of trade that could have helped the Suns.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

That is a good get.

My guess is that we aren’t ready to shed Lee but who knows what this FO is thinking most times.

 

[Mainstreet]

That is a good get.

My guess is that we aren’t ready to shed Lee but who knows what this FO is thinking most times.

It's the right price for a player that could contribute.

The Suns already have an open roster spot but could shed a player to get another, such as Damion Lee or Bol Bol.

 

[Raindog]

Which mean about the same for Nurk.

I wonder if a Vucevic for Nurkic trade could work? It would be a slight salary savings for the Bulls, and Nurkic is five years younger, if not as good.

 

[Hoop Head]

I wonder if a Vucevic for Nurkic trade could work? It would be a slight salary savings for the Bulls, and Nurkic is five years younger, if not as good.

Vucevic is an awful defender and would make people think Nurkic was Gobert by comparison. Vucevic is better offensively but he's honestly much more of a wide body stretch 4 than actual 5. I wouldn't make that trade. It doesn't make us better, at all.

 

[Mainstreet]

Joel Embiid suffers a sinus fracture against the Pacers.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Yuma]

Joel Embiid suffers a sinus fracture against the Pacers.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Sixers been having some struggles this season.

 

[Yuma]

Channel 3 news dropped the line, "Was Beal left out of the line up for a possible move?" They dropped it humorously. The rumors are flying now.

 

[Mainstreet]

Channel 3 news dropped the line, "Was Beal left out of the line up for a possible move?" They dropped it humorously. The rumors are flying now.

I thought about it. In the old days, a player sitting out was frequently a sign a trade was coming down.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Joel Embiid suffers a sinus fracture against the Pacers.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

I was going to say he can't catch a break...

 

[Russ Smith]

I admit I'm biased but at this point the NBA is just trolling Steve Kerr with their explanations. The 2 minute review of the Rockets game said the call on Kuminga was correct, while going for the ball he made contact with the shoulder of Jalen Green, foul.

Then on the earlier plays they said, on the play where Fred Van Vleet essentially landed on Payton, "they were going for the ball so it's incidental contact."

So Kuminga going for the ball is a foul but Van Vleet going for the ball is incidental contact. And Kuminga actually was going to grab the ball, Van Vleet landed on the back of Payton's legs nowhere near the ball.

Lost in all that, was why in the world did Steph take a stepback 3 with 9 seconds left on the shot clock when they were up 1 point with 12 seconds left? I get that it's a shot he regularly makes but run the clock Steph

 

[Mainstreet]

Ice hockey players are different than NBA players.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Phrazbit]

So instead of mitigating the damage and giving yourself at least a chance to get better with massive cap space and future picks to trade in a scenario where we trade Booker/Durant, you’d just rather cut off the nose to spite your face.

All so we can watch a Washington Wizards level team with Booker leading the way… a team that will STILL stink, still lose lottery picks but won’t have done anything to prepare for the future. Great idea.

As for Booker being the Larry for the Suns, that line of thinking totally ignores the amount of money and cap allocated to both and how that effects rounding out the team around them.… a one-dimensional Booker chokes 1/3 of the cap while Larry never came close to that.

I think we have vastly different views on what a fire sale would return and the depth to which the team would sink before they can claw their way back.

From my perspective, I'd rather they fought to be a lower seed, maybe a play in, maybe something wild happens and they get lucky, meanwhile, the "blow it up" alternative equals winning about 10-20 games per season over the next 5 or 6 years. We could dump everything and I expect all we'd do is gift Houston and Washington and whoever else owns our draft future picks in the top 4, year after year. We get a few 1st round picks for Booker, probably towards the end of the first... nothing else we'd sell would yield any tangible value.

A fire sale, one that makes your roster utterly hopeless and putrid for years, but you only have one real asset to sell.

Gross.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think we have vastly different views on what a fire sale would return and the depth to which the team would sink before they can claw their way back.

From my perspective, I'd rather they fought to be a lower seed, maybe a play in, maybe something wild happens and they get lucky, meanwhile, the "blow it up" alternative equals winning about 10-20 games per season over the next 5 or 6 years. We could dump everything and I expect all we'd do is gift Houston and Washington and whoever else owns our draft future picks in the top 4, year after year. We get a few 1st round picks for Booker, probably towards the end of the first... nothing else we'd sell would yield any tangible value.

A fire sale, one that makes your roster utterly hopeless and putrid for years, but you only have one real asset to sell.

Gross.

You continue to ignore the free agent market and ishbia’s deep pockets and complete disdain for losing. Ishbia isn’t going to stand for 5-6 years of putridity and has the $$$ to avoid it.

 

[elindholm]

You continue to ignore the free agent market and ishbia’s deep pockets and complete disdain for losing. Ishbia isn’t going to stand for 5-6 years of putridity and has the $$$ to avoid it.

Until he figures out that hubris and deep pockets aren't enough to create a contending NBA team, pulls a Prokhorov, and bails.

 

[Hoop Head]

You continue to ignore the free agent market and ishbia’s deep pockets and complete disdain for losing. Ishbia isn’t going to stand for 5-6 years of putridity and has the $$$ to avoid it.

No one is ignoring the free agent market. No stars or near stars are.signing for a team that is deliberately tanking while not even having the picks we'd receive from bottoming out. The absolute best we'd sign would be Jerami Grant, Tobias Harris, Jordan Poole, etc. Those guys aren't helping a team win.

Deep pockets mean nothing with the CBA restrictions going forward. Ishbia could be willing to double our tax bill tomorrow but that doesn't mean it can be done. Look at where we are because Ishbia has deep pockets as well. That isn't the answer to our problems. It's likely been a cause of some of our current issues.