Suns @ Jazz Friday game thread, December 13th, 2024

[Yuma]

Dbook trailing Walter Davis by 530 points now.

 

[mjb21aztd]

Finallyyyyy nice w by kd and the suns i think if no kd suns lose whew

420 passion fruit kush to dub)))

 

[ProdigalSun]

I don’t get this team

KD play 95% win

KD no play 95% lose

 

[BirdGangThing]

I don’t get this team

KD play 95% win

KD no play 95% lose

i think you get it - or it sounds like you got it to me

 

[Proximo]

kd looked good book looked good - dunn and tyus looked great

Yes, that was probably our best offensive performance of the year.

But the defense was not up to par.

 

[Proximo]

I don’t get this team

KD play 95% win

KD no play 95% lose

Not that hard to figure out.

We need need KD's rebounding, rim protection and ability to draw doubles and kick to open shooters.

He is our ONLY legit power forward.

 

[BirdGangThing]

Not that hard to figure out.

We need need KD's rebounding, rim protection and ability to draw doubles and kick to open shooters.

He is our ONLY legit power forward.

dunn (although limited) didn't hurt either and oneale is feeling it

 

[Mainstreet]

I don’t get this team

KD play 95% win

KD no play 95% lose

The way I see it, the Suns have to be functioning on all cylinders offensively to win. They allowed Utah to shoot 56.4% from three, 22-39.

Phoenix is not playing defense, so they have to outscore opponents. This leaves no margin for error.

 

[Superbone]

I don’t get this team

KD play 95% win

KD no play 95% lose

You don't get it? I think it's a pretty clear formula.

 

[Superbone]

The way I see it, the Suns have to be functioning on all cylinders offensively to win. They allowed Utah to shoot 56.4% from three, 22-39.

Phoenix is not playing defense, so they have to outscore opponents. This leaves no margin for error.

Yep, much like the D'Antoni days except this team's defense may be worse.

 

[Hoop Head]

The way I see it, the Suns have to be functioning on all cylinders offensively to win. They allowed Utah to shoot 56.4% from three, 22-39.

Phoenix is not playing defense, so they have to outscore opponents. This leaves no margin for error.

Looking forward to the next game. I haven't watched any other Utah game but they shot so much from outside and at such a good percentage that it's hard to gauge how much Nurkic's return helped improve, not fix, our interior defense issues.

I know some will disagree but I think missing Nurkic hurt just as much as missing KD because we still had Beal for extra scoring besides Booker but we didn't have any interior defensive presence or rebounder. Whether I'm right or not, I'm glad Nurk and KD are back.

I'd also add, I'm on team Morris. Tyus was shooting great but I believe Monte is the better defender and should see more minutes at PG.

 

[Mainstreet]

Looking forward to the next game. I haven't watched any other Utah game but they shot so much from outside and at such a good percentage that it's hard to gauge how much Nurkic's return helped improve, not fix, our interior defense issues.

I know some will disagree but I think missing Nurkic hurt just as much as missing KD because we still had Beal for extra scoring besides Booker but we didn't have any interior defensive presence or rebounder. Whether I'm right or not, I'm glad Nurk and KD are back.

I'd also add, I'm on team Morris. Tyus was shooting great but I believe Monte is the better defender and should see more minutes at PG.

The return of Nurkic helps the Suns offensively and rebounding, but their interior defense remains poor.

It makes me wonder if the Suns miss Frank Vogel's coaching on defense more than we thought.

The Suns can't guard inside or outside. The Jazz were getting wide open 3-point shots. If the Suns couldn't have outscored Utah, they would have lost.

 

[Hoop Head]

The return of Nurkic helps the Suns offensively and rebounding, but their interior defense remains poor.

It makes me wonder if the Suns miss Frank Vogel's coaching on defense more than we thought.

The Suns can't guard inside or outside. The Jazz were getting wide open 3-point shots. If the Suns couldn't have outscored Utah, they would have lost.

Re - interior d, I think Nurkic is a deterrent at the very least. We didn't have that for 2 weeks. So his presence helps. When challenged he's not great but at least teams think twice before challenging him. Utah certainly did.

I do think coaching is an issue. We aren't that different than what I remember Milwaukee under Bud being on D as far as scheme. Its less of a switch all D than Vogel, although there are switches. He keeps Nurk inside near the basket also, for better and worse. Milwaukee had long players who were good defenders and athletes like Giannis, Middleton, Portis, Holiday, etc. Lopez wasn't but he excelled in that roaming role Nurkic is playing on the inside because those other players sort of forced their man to Lopez. We're small and un-athletic. We need to be more physical. Beal, for his faults, is good at that. He's an undersized SG whose size isn't mentioned a lot because he can leap out of the gym when healthy and also he gets in oppositions jerseys. Booker, KD, and Tyus don't do that.

 

[Mainstreet]

Re - interior d, I think Nurkic is a deterrent at the very least. We didn't have that for 2 weeks. So his presence helps. When challenged he's not great but at least teams think twice before challenging him. Utah certainly did.

I do think coaching is an issue. We aren't that different than what I remember Milwaukee under Bud being on D as far as scheme. Its less of a switch all D than Vogel, although there are switches. He keeps Nurk inside near the basket also, for better and worse. Milwaukee had long players who were good defenders and athletes like Giannis, Middleton, Portis, Holiday, etc. Lopez wasn't but he excelled in that roaming role Nurkic is playing on the inside because those other players sort of forced their man to Lopez. We're small and un-athletic. We need to be more physical. Beal, for his faults, is good at that. He's an undersized SG whose size isn't mentioned a lot because he can leap out of the gym when healthy and also he gets in oppositions jerseys. Booker, KD, and Tyus don't do that.

The way I look at it, if the Suns are firing on all cylinders, they can beat any team on a given night, but that's not the way the NBA works.

When a team has an off night and not hitting shots, they have to rely on defense to keep them in a game. Right now, the Suns don't have the toughness or players to do this. It doesn't explain how the defense can be this bad, though. The defense should be better... no excuses.

If the Suns could add a couple of players to plug the middle, they might be a different team. Even Thomas Bryant would have helped. I hope the Suns have a plan.

 

[Superbone]

The lack of turnovers did go a great way in helping to win though. That needs to continue to improve. Bad defense AND lots of turnovers has been a horrible recipe for success.

 

[Hoop Head]

If the Suns could add a couple of players to plug the middle, they might be a different team. Even Thomas Bryant would have helped. I hope the Suns have a plan

That Thomas Bryant trade confused me and made me question JJ's ability as a GM even more. Of course he's the same dunce who said being a GM was like a 9-5 job so I'm not surprised he isn't proactive.

 

[Mainstreet]

That Thomas Bryant trade confused me and made me question JJ's ability as a GM even more. Of course he's the same dunce who said being a GM was like a 9-5 job so I'm not surprised he isn't proactive.

Yeah, the Suns should have been on top of this trade. I hope they have better options on the table.

 

[Yuma]

Yes, that was probably our best offensive performance of the year.

But the defense was not up to par.

Our defense is never going to be great. Best is that we are average. We have to become feared offensively. We aren't that yet. We better figure at least that part of it out. We have to quit giving the other side a free extra 20 tries at scoring a game, too.

 

[Yuma]

The lack of turnovers did go a great way in helping to win though. That needs to continue to improve. Bad defense AND lots of turnovers has been a horrible recipe for success.

I wish there was a 1,000 percent button.

 

[Covert Rain]

Phoenix is not playing defense, so they have to outscore opponents. This leaves no margin for error.

I agree with the razor thin part but defensively the team is way different….overall with KD. The Jazz were lights out shooting at times in this game.

With KD in the lineup they are a top 10 defense. Without KD they drop to 30th. Believe it or not he has less of an impact offensively. They are 6th in offense with him and 11th without him.

That’s just freaking crazy. Now I am not saying that keeps up but it appears Bud’s system might be tailored made for a guy like Durant in the lineup.

 

[Mainstreet]

I agree with the razor thin part but defensively the team is way different….overall with KD. The Jazz were lights out shooting at times in this game.

With KD in the lineup they are a top 10 defense. Without KD they drop to 30th. Believe it or not he has less of an impact offensively. They are 6th in offense with him and 11th without him.

That’s just freaking crazy. Now I am not saying that keeps up but it appears Bud’s system might be tailored made for a guy like Durant in the lineup.

The Suns can trade baskets with the best of teams when everyone is healthy, but the Suns really miss Durant's size and athleticism when he is out. However, depending on outscoring the opponents, especially in the playoffs, is a recipe for disaster.

Having Durant makes the Suns better, but both offensively and defensively, but defense is what wins games. The Suns middle is a sieve. Having Durant only makes the problem better, but the Suns are most vulnerable there.

Its inevitable opponents are going to take that freeway to the basket as a recipe for the win or kick the ball out to wide open shooters when the defense collapses.

I should add, though, the Suns defense really doesn't collapse well either. For the most part, they do not take anything away from opponents. Utah got whatever they wanted, but turnovers were their downfall.

 

[Covert Rain]

The Suns can trade baskets with the best of teams when everyone is healthy, but the Suns really miss Durant's size and athleticism when he is out. However, depending on outscoring the opponents, especially in the playoffs, is a recipe for disaster.

Having Durant makes the Suns better, but both offensively and defensively, but defense is what wins games. The Suns middle is a sieve. Having Durant only makes the problem better, but the Suns are most vulnerable there.

Its inevitable opponents are going to take that freeway to the basket as a recipe for the win or kick the ball out to wide open shooters when the defense collapses.

I should add, though, the Suns defense really doesn't collapse well either. For the most part, they do not take anything away from opponents. Utah got whatever they wanted, but turnovers were their downfall.

Suns middle can be a turnstile but the stats don’t lie. The Suns defense is in the top ten with Durant. Would that last? Not sure but you are right the playoffs would be the real test.

 

[Hoop Head]

The Suns can trade baskets with the best of teams when everyone is healthy, but the Suns really miss Durant's size and athleticism when he is out. However, depending on outscoring the opponents, especially in the playoffs, is a recipe for disaster.

Having Durant makes the Suns better, but both offensively and defensively, but defense is what wins games. The Suns middle is a sieve. Having Durant only makes the problem better, but the Suns are most vulnerable there.

Its inevitable opponents are going to take that freeway to the basket as a recipe for the win or kick the ball out to wide open shooters when the defense collapses.

I should add, though, the Suns defense really doesn't collapse well either. For the most part, they do not take anything away from opponents. Utah got whatever they wanted, but turnovers were their downfall.

They half heartedly collapse this year. I think its remnants of Vogel's defensive system. They collapsed better last year. This year they get caught in the middle of committing or not and that leaves someone open.

 

[Superbone]

They half heartedly collapse this year. I think its remnants of Vogel's defensive system. They collapsed better last year. This year they get caught in the middle of committing or not and that leaves someone open.

They've been collapsing lately, alright!

Oh, defensively? Yeah, their pick and roll coverage down the middle of the lane has been horrendous. Almost always leaves a big dunking the ball on us.

 

[Mainstreet]

Suns middle can be a turnstile but the stats don’t lie. The Suns defense is in the top ten with Durant. Would that last? Not sure but you are right the playoffs would be the real test.

Durant helps the team both offensively and defensively, but the Suns should be better defensively when he doesn't play. Their record supports this.

There is no excuse for the Suns being this bad on defense, even though they are soft in the middle. IMO, it's not only a personnel issue but a coaching issue as well.