Charmin Marvin Harrison Jr Thread

[Cbus cardsfan]

I enjoy the narrative that Harrison isn't fast. Last year he was clocked as the fastest game speed in college, like 22.8 MPH, or something like that. He is probably thinking too much and not playing that fast right now. But that will change.

Garrett Wilson, Jackson Smith-njigba, all the WR's on OSU along with the coaches, to a man said Marvin was the best of the bunch. They're not going to just give lip service.

He definitely needs to improve, and he will. I have zero doubt about that.

 

[602 Native]

I enjoy the narrative that Harrison isn't fast. Last year he was clocked as the fastest game speed in college, like 22.8 MPH, or something like that. He is probably thinking too much and not playing that fast right now. But that will change.

Garrett Wilson, Jackson Smith-njigba, all the WR's on OSU along with the coaches, to a man said Marvin was the best of the bunch. They're not going to just give lip service.

He definitely needs to improve, and he will. I have zero doubt about that.

I hope no one is writing Marv off and saying he is a bust.

He is still a rookie and watching him mature has been painful for us fans because of the exact quotes you stated above. Really hoping he figures it out next season and becomes that WR1 we need.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I hope no one is writing Marv off and saying he is a bust.

He is still a rookie and watching him mature has been painful for us fans because of the exact quotes you stated above. Really hoping he figures it out next season and becomes that WR1 we need.

Didn't you see earlier? He's the biggest bust since Charles Rogers.

 

[DVontel]

Garrett Wilson, Jackson Smith-njigba, all the WR's on OSU along with the coaches, to a man said Marvin was the best of the bunch. They're not going to just give lip service.

I mean, what do you expect them to say?

 

[SoonerLou]

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[Cbus cardsfan]

I mean, what do you expect them to say?

Not sure what point you're trying to make. You don't hear them saying Emeka Egbuka is the best of the group. What would they have to gain by saying that about Harrison?

They are saying freshman Jeremiah Smith is going to be better than all of them.

 

[kerouac9]

I mean, what do you expect them to say?

I don't think they were being asked about MHJ in particular when this came up. IIRC, the OSU WR coach was asked who was the best of this wildly successful series of prospects (or what set them apart, whatever), and he placed MHJ in a different category than everyone else.

There are lots of ways to say you love all your children equally, or they bring unique strength X to the table.

 

[SoonerLou]

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[WisconsinCard]

Didn't you see earlier? He's the biggest bust since Charles Rogers.

You won't get a response to this.

 

[602 Native]

You won't get a response to this.

Did someone actually say this?

 

[Jetstream Green]

Marv simply isn't finishing off the process on the contested catches. Dude has now let it become incomplete going to the ground after initially catching it numerous times. Yesterday, those were good passes and Marv has to at least go 50/50 on them. Fitz, Rob Moore, Roy Green, Boldin while in the process getting his jaw rearranged, and even Michael Wilson (gosh, he reminds of JT Smith back in the day) would have done that. The boy does not need a jugs machine throwing to him, he needs to walk around with a football all day with people trying to strip it from him

 

[ASUCHRIS]

He's definitely the opposite of what I expected. I thought he would come into the league polished and ready. He was certainly projected to be the most NFL ready WR in this draft, and the highest touted in awhile.

So far he's shown no ability to create separation, no ability to win 1 v. 1's, and he's played far more passively than portrayed in most scouting reports. He might end up being a great player, but this has been a very disappointing season relative to expectations.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

He's definitely the opposite of what I expected. I thought he would come into the league polished and ready. He was certainly projected to be the most NFL ready WR in this draft, and the highest touted in awhile.

So far he's shown no ability to create separation, no ability to win 1 v. 1's, and he's played far more passively than portrayed in most scouting reports. He might end up being a great player, but this has been a very disappointing season relative to expectations.

There's a lot of room for improvement that's for sure

Hope he puts in the work now that he understands how faster the game is and how the little things can make a big difference

 

[Russ Smith]

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ANd much of that is true but again fair or not he IS the #1 WR on this team, he's going to get the matchups with Gonzalez and Witherspoon and other elite CB's. If he can't win 1 on 1 matchups with those guys, that's NOT a scheme thing. We all watch games every week where Romo or some other commentator says he's got 1 on 1 out wide with (insert #1WR name) and they go there and the guy wins and it's a completion.

Right now Marv is more effective in the slot than he is out wide, at least it looks that way I don't have any stats on it.

But for a guy that we were told was the best route runner to come out in years to now be told we need to scheme him open, that's a bit disconcerting.

 

[Shane]

ANd much of that is true but again fair or not he IS the #1 WR on this team, he's going to get the matchups with Gonzalez and Witherspoon and other elite CB's. If he can't win 1 on 1 matchups with those guys, that's NOT a scheme thing. We all watch games every week where Romo or some other commentator says he's got 1 on 1 out wide with (insert #1WR name) and they go there and the guy wins and it's a completion.

Right now Marv is more effective in the slot than he is out wide, at least it looks that way I don't have any stats on it.

But for a guy that we were told was the best route runner to come out in years to now be told we need to scheme him open, that's a bit disconcerting.

This

 

[CardNots]

It appears MHJ hasn’t learned how to keep a defender’s hands out of his airspace.

Currently his focus is on the ball not the defender.

 

[Chopper0080]

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I agree with this tweet.

 

[Chopper0080]

He's definitely the opposite of what I expected. I thought he would come into the league polished and ready. He was certainly projected to be the most NFL ready WR in this draft, and the highest touted in awhile.

So far he's shown no ability to create separation, no ability to win 1 v. 1's, and he's played far more passively than portrayed in most scouting reports. He might end up being a great player, but this has been a very disappointing season relative to expectations.

This thread has exhausted me, but I will add this. In order to get the most out of a WR who runs great routes, you need a timing and rhythm QB. Take a look at the first TD which was broken up by Gonzalez. MHJ won on the break, and created separation out of that break. The issue comes after that. Kyler throws a high point ball (not going to complain too much about that) which becomes a lower % play because of Gonzalez's ability to recover with speed, and contest the catch. Like Feeley said on the broadcast, MHJ needs to do a better job winning those catches, and I think he will.

But this is an example of MHJ gaining separation on his break due to his route running, but AZ could not take advantage of it.

An interesting observation I have made (and it shouldn't be shocking) is that MHJ's game is similar to his dad's (and early Fitzgerald). Run crisp routes, catch the ball, get down. It's funny because his dad played that way because he was smaller and in a rougher era. MHJ is gonna have to shift to playing more to his size and making plays after the catch.

 

[Chopper0080]

ANd much of that is true but again fair or not he IS the #1 WR on this team, he's going to get the matchups with Gonzalez and Witherspoon and other elite CB's. If he can't win 1 on 1 matchups with those guys, that's NOT a scheme thing. We all watch games every week where Romo or some other commentator says he's got 1 on 1 out wide with (insert #1WR name) and they go there and the guy wins and it's a completion.

Right now Marv is more effective in the slot than he is out wide, at least it looks that way I don't have any stats on it.

But for a guy that we were told was the best route runner to come out in years to now be told we need to scheme him open, that's a bit disconcerting.

This is kinda funny because a big point of contention from the board was that Kliff didn't move Hopkins around enough. Now there are complaints that Marv has to be moved around.

Ultimately, and I don't care how good you are coming out, if you are a rookie coming into the NFL, you are going to struggle vs Pro Bowl veterans. And if the team isn't willing to do things things to help that rookie out in those matchups, the rookie is not going to look his best.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

An interesting observation I have made (and it shouldn't be shocking) is that MHJ's game is similar to his dad's (and early Fitzgerald). Run crisp routes, catch the ball, get down. It's funny because his dad played that way because he was smaller and in a rougher era. MHJ is gonna have to shift to playing more to his size and making plays after the catch.

I definitely remember Sr. as a guy who NEVER took a big hit, and would fall down whenever someone got close, even if it meant him not gaining a couple extra yards...the anti-Boldin.

 

[BritCard]

I mean, what do you expect them to say?

What would I expect them to say when asked "Who is was the best out of X, Y and Z when you were together?"

I'd expect the truth. I wouldn't expect some conspiracy to say it was Marv.

 

[BritCard]

This thread has exhausted me, but I will add this. In order to get the most out of a WR who runs great routes, you need a timing and rhythm QB. Take a look at the first TD which was broken up by Gonzalez. MHJ won on the break, and created separation out of that break. The issue comes after that. Kyler throws a high point ball (not going to complain too much about that) which becomes a lower % play because of Gonzalez's ability to recover with speed, and contest the catch. Like Feeley said on the broadcast, MHJ needs to do a better job winning those catches, and I think he will.

But this is an example of MHJ gaining separation on his break due to his route running, but AZ could not take advantage of it.

An interesting observation I have made (and it shouldn't be shocking) is that MHJ's game is similar to his dad's (and early Fitzgerald). Run crisp routes, catch the ball, get down. It's funny because his dad played that way because he was smaller and in a rougher era. MHJ is gonna have to shift to playing more to his size and making plays after the catch.

This thread's going to go down like the "Trey was a wasted draft pick" thread from 2 years ago.

I think the 2nd one was a better example. MHJ creates the space but has to turn around and try catch a jump ball over Gonzalez when a ball placed to the sideline is an easy catch.

 

[Russ Smith]

This is kinda funny because a big point of contention from the board was that Kliff didn't move Hopkins around enough. Now there are complaints that Marv has to be moved around.

Ultimately, and I don't care how good you are coming out, if you are a rookie coming into the NFL, you are going to struggle vs Pro Bowl veterans. And if the team isn't willing to do things things to help that rookie out in those matchups, the rookie is not going to look his best.

But that was a totally different offense. I'm for putting Marv where he's best but Petzing has been REALLY clear about this, he talks every week to the media and he's said repeatedly we drafted him to be the X receiver, it's the most difficult position in our offense for a receiver. So if they now have to move him to the slot, that's not good.

One of those youtube breakdown video guys said something like 6 1 on 1 matchups between Marv and Gonzalez in the game, the most separation Marv got all game was the one in the endzone he lost when Gonzalez stripped it. The other 5 he got no separation including the other one in the endzone, a couple on the sideline etc The most separation he got all day was his first catch from the slot going across the entire formation so that Gonzalez had to fight through the traffic, not 1 on 1.

Outside of the Rams game where someone fell down, almost every TD this year for MHJ is a just inside the endline or in close coverage. He just doesn't get open as much as we were told he would. HOpefully that improves.

 

[Russ Smith]

This thread's going to go down like the "Trey was a wasted draft pick" thread from 2 years ago.

I think the 2nd one was a better example. MHJ creates the space but has to turn around and try catch a jump ball over Gonzalez when a ball placed to the sideline is an easy catch.

We all hope that's the case. But it doesn't change the kid is nowhere near as good as he was expected to be, right now. It's not just Cards fans saying that, if you read stories about him literally everyone is saying it.

 

[Chopper0080]

But that was a totally different offense. I'm for putting Marv where he's best but Petzing has been REALLY clear about this, he talks every week to the media and he's said repeatedly we drafted him to be the X receiver, it's the most difficult position in our offense for a receiver. So if they now have to move him to the slot, that's not good.

One of those youtube breakdown video guys said something like 6 1 on 1 matchups between Marv and Gonzalez in the game, the most separation Marv got all game was the one in the endzone he lost when Gonzalez stripped it. The other 5 he got no separation including the other one in the endzone, a couple on the sideline etc The most separation he got all day was his first catch from the slot going across the entire formation so that Gonzalez had to fight through the traffic, not 1 on 1.

Outside of the Rams game where someone fell down, almost every TD this year for MHJ is a just inside the endline or in close coverage. He just doesn't get open as much as we were told he would. HOpefully that improves.

Same offense or different offense is irrelevant IMO. Not moving your WRs around makes it more difficult for the them to be successful. Chase is moved around. Jefferson is moved around. Hell, Brian Thomas is moved around. Nabers is moved around. Every top WR should be moved around so that the opposing team has a tough time scheming how to take that WR out of the game. So, it is a schematic decision and the decision to leave a WR in a stagnant role is one that makes it more difficult for the WR.

If we want to pick nits, MHJ also got open on the illegal contact play where Gannon chose the 5 yards and a 1st down over the 9(?) yard gain. Ultimately, I am not inspired enough to sign up for NFL + and breakdown the all-22 tape, and I certainly don't expect you to do so which means I am comfortable agreeing to disagree.