Status of the defensive line and the draft

[Chopper0080]

Ok. Trying to shift convo on this to a more central area. There has been a lot of convo regarding the defensive line and what it looks like.

Here is the current room

Dalvin Tomlinson - 14.5 mil per year - 2 yrs
Justin Jones - 10.05 mil per year - 2 yrs
Bilal Nichols - 7 mil per year - 2 yrs
Calais Campbell - 5.5 mil - 1 yr
Darius Robinson - 3.5 mil per year - 3 yrs
LJ Collier - 3 mil - 1 yr
Ben Stille - 1.1 mil per year - 2026 ERFA
Dante Stills - 0.993 mil per year - 2 yrs

First easy observation, there is no real significant financial investment outside of Tomlinson and maybe Jones. 2nd observation, only player signed for more than 2 years, Darius Robinson.

Now let's look at usage from week 1, 2024. Vs Buffalo who used multiple TE packages.

Justin Jones - DE - 69% (nice)
Bilal Nichols - DE - 43%
Dante Stills - DE - 43%
Roy Lopez - NT - 37%
LJ Collier - DE - 35%
Khyiris Tonga - NT - 26%

Updating that to today's roster, based upon role and salary

Justin Jones - DE - 69%
Bilal Nichols - DE - 43%
Calais Campbell - DE - 43%
Dalvin Tomlinson - NT - 37%
Darius Robinson - DE - 35%
??? - NT - 26% (neither Collier, Stille nor Stills fit this role.)

###

So, two questions pop up for me.

1 - Who fills the backup NT role vacated by Tonga?

2 - Is there potentially a IDL player in round 1 would be an upgrade over Nichols, Campbell, Collier or Stills?

Curious about other's thoughts.

 

[BirdGangThing]

sweat $76 million
tomlinson $29 million
calais $6 million

that's over $110 million upfront on new acquisitions not counting re-signings plus we got d-rob who will also be semi-newish to us

but as far as youth goes we got d-rob

 

[GatorAZ]

sweat $76 million
tomlinson $29 million
calais $6 million

that's over $110 million upfront on new acquisitions not counting re-signings plus we got d-rob who will also be semi-newish to us

but as far as youth goes we got d-rob

.
It’s serious $ and based on their track records I expect Sweat and Tomlinson to be productive and durable thru 27’, Calais thru next year. However I don’t see the upside anywhere on the DL to ignore BPA should one of the DL fit that bill. I know they are high on Darius Robinson but I’m not there with him. I think for an older rookie he lacked polish but I like his physicality and character.

 

[oaken1]

.
It’s serious $ and based on their track records I expect Sweat and Tomlinson to be productive and durable thru 27’, Calais thru next year. However I don’t see the upside anywhere on the DL to ignore BPA should one of the DL fit that bill. I know they are high on Darius Robinson but I’m not there with him. I think for an older rookie he lacked polish but I like his physicality and character.

agree...Robinson and Dante Stills are the only guys that seem to be part of the long term plans. The others either hit the age cap or are too far deep in the rotation.

 

[Shane]

agree...Robinson and Dante Stills are the only guys that seem to be part of the long term plans. The others either hit the age cap or are too far deep in the rotation.

Nobodies gonna care or think twice about it after we win the SB this year to send CC out with a bang

 

[oaken1]

Nobodies gonna care or think twice about it after we win the SB this year to send CC out with a bang

thats my point. Drafting at 32, there is zero chance we get a pass rushing DT

 

[kerouac9]

Dalvin Tomlinson (31) - 14.5 mil per year - 2 yrs
Justin Jones (29) - 10.05 mil per year - 2 yrs
Bilal Nichols (28) - 7 mil per year - 2 yrs
Calais Campbell (39) - 5.5 mil - 1 yr
Darius Robinson (24) - 3.5 mil per year - 3 yrs
LJ Collier (30) - 3 mil - 1 yr
Ben Stille (27) - 1.1 mil per year - 2026 ERFA
Dante Stills (25) - 0.993 mil per year - 2 yrs

I think it's helpful to know the ages of these players when the season starts, also. Added above.

It's also kinda crazy that the Darren Urban with the Cards didn't include Robinson on his list of IDL; Robinson played a lot last year without any cover on the outside. He might be playing more edge than we expect.

Nichols also has the size to be rotational nose.

 

[Chopper0080]

I think it's helpful to know the ages of these players when the season starts, also. Added above.

It's also kinda crazy that the Darren Urban with the Cards didn't include Robinson on his list of IDL; Robinson played a lot last year without any cover on the outside. He might be playing more edge than we expect.

Nichols also has the size to be rotational nose.

The ages are helpful. Thanks.

I agree on Bilal at NT if nothing gets added in the draft.

Robinson as an even front pass rusher in sub packages also makes some sense.

After doing this, I came away feeling like Monti has focused on shoring up some issues short term, but still is lacking youth in the group.

 

[kerouac9]

The ages are helpful. Thanks.

I agree on Bilal at NT if nothing gets added in the draft.

Robinson as an even front pass rusher in sub packages also makes some sense.

After doing this, I came away feeling like Monti has focused on shoring up some issues short term, but still is lacking youth in the group.

Yup. Stills seems like a keeper; gotta add a couple of bodies from this draft. Collier and Steele are fairly expendable.

 

[Denny Green Fan]

Nobodies gonna care or think twice about it after we win the SB this year to send CC out with a bang

My guess is banks may be our guy at 16 or we trade down for one of the 3 stud guards

 

[Chopper0080]

My guess is banks may be our guy at 16 or we trade down for one of the 3 stud guards

Banks at 16 would be gross. I just don't see it.

 

[reebokalone2001]

Banks at 16 would be gross. I just don't see it.

Why? Is he not good? He seem has been highly touted on most of the draft board the entire season. I have heard his name a lot but don’t know much about him, just curious.

 

[Stout]

My guess is banks may be our guy at 16 or we trade down for one of the 3 stud guards

This would burn a lot of good will for Monti.

 

[BritCard]

1. This is a good point, and one I've been thinking about myself. Realistically, we only play a nose tackle around 35% of the time. The rest of the snaps that Tonga and Lopez took were as a traditional DT somewhere between 1 and 3 tech, mainly on 2nd or 3rd down where run was a likely option. This role could be filled by any of the other players. And also plays around 60% of snaps, which is roughly the total combined snap count of Lopez and Tonga.

2. Of course, but that's not the question. The question is: Is there enough snaps to go around to make it worthwhile drafting a defensive lineman at 16? They likely will only get 30-40% of snaps, max. That's not good value when you have other holes.

I would like to add a nose tackle though but I'm not sure there is space on the roster for another guy. Maybe an unsigned free agent that we can stash on the PS. Look to draft Jamaree Caldwell.

 

[CardNots]

1. This is a good point, and one I've been thinking about myself. Realistically, we only play a nose tackle around 35% of the time. The rest of the snaps that Tonga and Lopez took were as a traditional DT somewhere between 1 and 3 tech, mainly on 2nd or 3rd down where run was a likely option. This role could be filled by any of the other players. And also plays around 60% of snaps, which is roughly the total combined snap count of Lopez and Tonga.

2. Of course, but that's not the question. The question is: Is there enough snaps to go around to make it worthwhile drafting a defensive lineman at 16? They likely will only get 30-40% of snaps, max. That's not good value when you have other holes.

I would like to add a nose tackle though but I'm not sure there is space on the roster for another guy. Maybe an unsigned free agent that we can stash on the PS. Look to draft Jamaree Caldwell.

What would you consider a better investment, OL or WR? Depending on how the board falls maybe CB?

 

[BritCard]

What would you consider a better investment, OL or WR? Depending on how the board falls maybe CB?

I like the quality of OL at #16 better than I like WR options. For what I want in a receiver, which is for Mike to move into the slot and replace him outside with someone with top end speed, we can get that in round 2 or 3.

I wouldn't bat an eye if the team went T, G, WR in the first 3 rounds.

 

[GeorgiaCard88]

I like the quality of OL at #16 better than I like WR options. For what I want in a receiver, which is for Mike to move into the slot and replace him outside with someone with top end speed, we can get that in round 2 or 3.

I wouldn't bat an eye if the team went T, G, WR in the first 3 rounds.

That not only would leave our defense destitute for years to come- we would be missing out on the strength of this draft.

Defense needs some love my dude with some youth on that front 7. Outside of sweat- the free agents brought in over the last 2 years are short term solutions

 

[Stout]

I like the quality of OL at #16 better than I like WR options. For what I want in a receiver, which is for Mike to move into the slot and replace him outside with someone with top end speed, we can get that in round 2 or 3.

I wouldn't bat an eye if the team went T, G, WR in the first 3 rounds.

To me, this would scream "smartest guy in the room" syndrome.

 

[Stout]

1. This is a good point, and one I've been thinking about myself. Realistically, we only play a nose tackle around 35% of the time. The rest of the snaps that Tonga and Lopez took were as a traditional DT somewhere between 1 and 3 tech, mainly on 2nd or 3rd down where run was a likely option. This role could be filled by any of the other players. And also plays around 60% of snaps, which is roughly the total combined snap count of Lopez and Tonga.

2. Of course, but that's not the question. The question is: Is there enough snaps to go around to make it worthwhile drafting a defensive lineman at 16? They likely will only get 30-40% of snaps, max. That's not good value when you have other holes.

I would like to add a nose tackle though but I'm not sure there is space on the roster for another guy. Maybe an unsigned free agent that we can stash on the PS. Look to draft Jamaree Caldwell.

On #2, yes. If you can get a high impact stud DT, then you make the snaps for them. It would be criminal for us to go into this DT draft and not think about the future, because we don't have much in the system for the future at the position.

 

[outcent13]

They really can go any direction on this draft which is a good place to be in. The two weakest position groups in my mind are LB and WR.

I would hate to miss out on a long term stud at DT just because we have guys like Jones, Nichols, and Collier though.

 

[QuebecCard]

Ok. Trying to shift convo on this to a more central area. There has been a lot of convo regarding the defensive line and what it looks like.

Here is the current room

Dalvin Tomlinson - 14.5 mil per year - 2 yrs
Justin Jones - 10.05 mil per year - 2 yrs
Bilal Nichols - 7 mil per year - 2 yrs
Calais Campbell - 5.5 mil - 1 yr
Darius Robinson - 3.5 mil per year - 3 yrs
LJ Collier - 3 mil - 1 yr
Ben Stille - 1.1 mil per year - 2026 ERFA
Dante Stills - 0.993 mil per year - 2 yrs

First easy observation, there is no real significant financial investment outside of Tomlinson and maybe Jones. 2nd observation, only player signed for more than 2 years, Darius Robinson.

Now let's look at usage from week 1, 2024. Vs Buffalo who used multiple TE packages.

Justin Jones - DE - 69% (nice)
Bilal Nichols - DE - 43%
Dante Stills - DE - 43%
Roy Lopez - NT - 37%
LJ Collier - DE - 35%
Khyiris Tonga - NT - 26%

Updating that to today's roster, based upon role and salary

Justin Jones - DE - 69%
Bilal Nichols - DE - 43%
Calais Campbell - DE - 43%
Dalvin Tomlinson - NT - 37%
Darius Robinson - DE - 35%
??? - NT - 26% (neither Collier, Stille nor Stills fit this role.)

###

So, two questions pop up for me.

1 - Who fills the backup NT role vacated by Tonga?

2 - Is there potentially a IDL player in round 1 would be an upgrade over Nichols, Campbell, Collier or Stills?

Curious about other's thoughts.

It would seem that Nichols at a reported 6-4, 313lb has the heft to sub for Tomlinson.

 

[BritCard]

On #2, yes. If you can get a high impact stud DT, then you make the snaps for them. It would be criminal for us to go into this DT draft and not think about the future, because we don't have much in the system for the future at the position.

I don't think NFL teams are looking at this draft as being great for DT. I don't think we will look back on this draft in 2-3 years as being stacked with top DT's. And I think the guys that are very good will not be names people are throwing around now as 1st round DT's.

There's a lot of good DT's, not really any great ones, certainly no "High impact stud" guys and it's a difficult position to transition into the NFL. I think the "We must draft a DT" talk is silly. Are all 32 teams going to draft a DT?

 

[Chopper0080]

Why? Is he not good? He seem has been highly touted on most of the draft board the entire season. I have hear his name a lot but don’t know much about him, just curious.

He is a good player but there are questions if he can hold up in the NFL at OT. He also doesn't play with a lot of power. Watching him, he catches guys or walls them off more than directly contacting them and moving them. If the Cardinals traded back and took a look at him, it would be better, but he is not a guy I want at 16.

 

[Chopper0080]

I don't think NFL teams are looking at this draft as being great for DT. I don't think we will look back on this draft in 2-3 years as being stacked with top DT's. And I think the guys that are very good will not be names people are throwing around now as 1st round DT's.

There's a lot of good DT's, not really any great ones, certainly no "High impact stud" guys and it's a difficult position to transition into the NFL. I think the "We must draft a DT" talk is silly. Are all 32 teams going to draft a DT?

Fair but I also don't think this is a great draft for WR or OL or CB. Everything that you say about DT, IMO is mirrored at OL, WR and CB.

I also don't see anyone saying the Cardinals must draft a DT. It's more that they think Nolen, Harmon, Grant and Graham. If I were ranking DT and OT, it looks like this.

Armand Membou
Mason Graham
Will Campbell
Kenneth Grant
Walter Nolen
Derrick Harmon
Kelvin Banks
Grey Zabel

Will Johnson is another enigma for me. Dude didn't want to participate in any of the athletic testing which is an issue because athletic testing has been a key trait for top CBs. He hasn't played a full season since 2022. I worry about his long speed but maybe that matters less in Rallis's scheme. And if you don't like Johnson, the other option is Barron who is better in the slot and old. For AZ, he is redundant to Garrett Williams. After that, no other CBs in round 1 (not counting Hunter).

 

[Chopper0080]

What would you consider a better investment, OL or WR? Depending on how the board falls maybe CB?

EDGE, IMO, has the highest ceiling.