2004 review Part 1 of 3

[Skkorpion]

http://arizonasportsfans.com/storypage.php?Story_ID=558&Category=cardinals

Submitted by an ASFN posting member. Parts 2 and 3 will be shortened a little. This took a lot of time and effort by the author.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Wow, not sure I agree with all of it, but much of it is very good, and a hell of a lot of work. Nice presentation as well....good job!

 

[RobbleRobble]

On McCown, "I can see him starting in about 5 years."

5 years? McCown will be in his 8th season then. Talk about your later bloomer.....

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Wait a second, Josh wasn't a rookie last year? That's not what the Josh McCown excuse-o-matic (aka Josh McCown supporters) keeps telling me due to his sixteen career starts.

EDIT - I also want to debate the notion that Josh got better after being benched. If he did, it was only because we were either down by three touchdowns or we were playing a Larry Marmie/49er defense.

Props to whoever wrote the article, it must have been a marathon.

 

[Rats]

Wait a second, Josh wasn't a rookie last year? That's not what the Josh McCown excuse-o-matic (aka Josh McCown supporters) keeps telling me due to his sixteen career starts.

EDIT - I also want to debate the notion that Josh got better after being benched. If he did, it was only because we were either down by three touchdowns or we were playing a Larry Marmie/49er defense.

Props to whoever wrote the article, it must have been a marathon.

You need to be like others here and requisition a new name. The "Chairman" has been replaced....there is no excuse-o-matic group here for JM. The right thinking group can see that he was a first time starter in a new offense last year that missed the playoffs because the team collapsed against the Whiners twice. You used to have good takes but lately you just wail like a lost pupppy...your better than that. On second thought the name is cool...I would keep it

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Sweet. Thanks Skorp for posting my story, AND coding it into the system.

This was my first crack at writing something that was to be read by the masses.

I don't expect everyone to agree with the article, or everyone to disagree with it.

It is just exciting to have people read it, and comment on it. Plus it was a lot of fun to do.

I had some help from a ASFN'er, who will reamin nameless since I do not know if he wants his name on the article. He editted the article, and made the thoughts in my head easier to understand. Without him this ariticle/blog would have been terrible.

Thanks to all who read it. Have fun ripping it apart, show no mercy!

Peace


Oh yeah. My thoery on McCown being a late bloomer is along the line of a Vinny Testaverde, or a Rich Gannon. Both became NFL quality starters late in their respective careers.

Peace

 

[Snakester]

Thanks for the article Rugby. You did a very good job. I can tell that you spent a lot of time on this piece. Keep-em coming!

 

[spanky1]

This is as good as it gets.......excellent balance, objectivity wise. Those that even attempt to rip this apart are "glass half empty" people.

 

[spanky1]

Interesting sidebar........with King; Smith; Scobey; Hodgins; Williams and Jones off the roster in 2005, we'll have an additional $8MM to play around with.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

You need to be like others here and requisition a new name. The "Chairman" has been replaced....there is no excuse-o-matic group here for JM. The right thinking group can see that he was a first time starter in a new offense last year that missed the playoffs because the team collapsed against the Whiners twice. You used to have good takes but lately you just wail like a lost pupppy...your better than that. On second thought the name is cool...I would keep it

This is possibly the most delusional position I've seen taken, I cannot believe you said this seriously; possibly the smiley face at the end is for the entire post? Who is this "right thinking group"? I'd love to know who comprises this, it is a hilarious title though...Better yet, how could you possibly make the claim that the team missed the playoffs because of two collapses against the 49ers? Do you really think that that is the reason we didn't make the playoffs, because we fell apart against the niners?

Anyone who believes that there is more than just a chance that Josh becomes an effective quarterback, and would bank on him becoming a good starter in this league needs to put their stopwatch, their tape measure, and their Josh McCown basketball film down, and start watching the guy play quarterback. I can't imagine anyone objectively saying that McCown improved last year. Fire up the "excuse-o-matic" though Rats.... I don't even know why I am responding to this...

 

[40yearfan]

Great article Rugby. Keep up the good work.

 

[Russ Smith]

Well done, my only nitpick right away is the comment imagine how many TD's Fitz would have had if they put the ball more in his hands the first half of the season. in fact he caught more balls in the first 8 games 31 than in the 2nd 8 games, 27. He had 3 TD's first 8, 5 2nd 8, largely because Boldin was back and that made it easier on Fitz and he got more chances in the redzone because with Quan we got there more often. And of course he was getting healthier too.

I can't wait to see the two of them at full speed next year with a real NFL QB throwing the ball to them.

 

[Rats]

This is possibly the most delusional position I've seen taken, I cannot believe you said this seriously; possibly the smiley face at the end is for the entire post? Who is this "right thinking group"? I'd love to know who comprises this, it is a hilarious title though...Better yet, how could you possibly make the claim that the team missed the playoffs because of two collapses against the 49ers? Do you really think that that is the reason we didn't make the playoffs, because we fell apart against the niners?

Anyone who believes that there is more than just a chance that Josh becomes an effective quarterback, and would bank on him becoming a good starter in this league needs to put their stopwatch, their tape measure, and their Josh McCown basketball film down, and start watching the guy play quarterback. I can't imagine anyone objectively saying that McCown improved last year. Fire up the "excuse-o-matic" though Rats.... I don't even know why I am responding to this...

I have never seen Josh play basketball but I have seen him play Qb. The losses to the Niners were gut wrenching and brought the entire team down. Had we won these we would have been poised to make the playoffs with a defeat of Seattle that would have gave us a 9-7 record. Had we won the first Niner game where the team collapsed, Josh most likely would not have been benched and we would have won at least one of the games he was benched in and the backups did so poorly in. Josh did improve after being benched. I think anyone can see that with the St. Louis game( His best of the season). He gives us the best option for success this next season. Whether he is a long term solution is yet to be seen. I am not sure why you responded to this either ASU...you obviously spend more time worrying about ASU's pitiful football team and Basketball team than you do watching any Cards games. I doubt you watched much at all. I guess the only excuse needed is that you wouldn't even be a fan of this team if they weren't playing at Sun Devil stadium....oh I guess that won't be a problem for you after next season

 

[CardLogic]

Rugby, nice work all around!

The most objective appraisal for Josh McCown that I have seen.

Look forward to segments 2-3!

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I have never seen Josh play basketball but I have seen him play Qb. The losses to the Niners were gut wrenching and brought the entire team down. Had we won these we would have been poised to make the playoffs with a defeat of Seattle that would have gave us a 9-7 record. Had we won the first Niner game where the team collapsed, Josh most likely would not have been benched and we would have won at least one of the games he was benched in and the backups did so poorly in. Josh did improve after being benched. I think anyone can see that with the St. Louis game( His best of the season). He gives us the best option for success this next season. Whether he is a long term solution is yet to be seen. I am not sure why you responded to this either ASU...you obviously spend more time worrying about ASU's pitiful football team and Basketball team than you do watching any Cards games. I doubt you watched much at all. I guess the only excuse needed is that you wouldn't even be a fan of this team if they weren't playing at Sun Devil stadium....oh I guess that won't be a problem for you after next season

Lol, hilarious post Rats, clearly you know me well. Your insistence that "if we won the 49er's games" we would have made the playoffs lose you any credibility. Through the course of a year, every team has at least 2 or three games that can go either way. Yeah, we could have won them, but we didn't. We were not a playoff caliber team, and almost all of the blame to that goes to our terrible offense.

I hope you really don't believe that we should have beaten the Jets and Panthers with McCown. Those were two teams that were clearly better than us, and McCown would have made no difference. In the St. Louis game he won, but scoring lots of points on St. Louis really doesn't really excite me. Again, you are making the argument that he showed improvement against the niners and a Larry Marmie coached defense. I bet Josh looks great against high schoolers too. He looked great against Tampa to finish the season as well, how did the announcers put it, one of the most poorly qb'd games they'd ever seen? Tons of progress....

"He gives us the best option for success this next season". How on earth can you make this claim? Have you suddenly become clairvoyant, and know how each qb that we've discussed will perform next season? Do you watch any teams other than the cards, because if you do, there are plenty of options that are far better than McCown. How many times does this guy have to crap the bed before you consider bringing in another qb to effectively run this offense?

Not sure why I responded to this? Well, I among many others are tired of reading your insane ramblings about the team followed by puerile attacks on everybody. I have to be honest, they are really stupid. Calling ASU football pitiful shows your complete lack of knowledge about college football, with all prognosticators having them in the top 25, some in the top 15 in the season coming up. More of Rats talking out of his ass? No....I won't bother responding to the rest of your immaturity, we'll see where Joshy boy is a year from now, you keep hitting the pipe and thinking he'll be the next Drew Brees!

 

[arthurracoon]

Good stuff Rugby!




About the TE: I cant believe that I see so many big time coaches (Parcells, Bellicheck, etc...) use their TE to block a DE. It doesnt work sometimes (when the TE whiffs), yet is more succesful than how the Cards ran it (a combo of FJ's inability to block, and McCown's inability to gun the ball out quickly)

 

[Rats]

Lol, hilarious post Rats, clearly you know me well. Your insistence that "if we won the 49er's games" we would have made the playoffs lose you any credibility. Through the course of a year, every team has at least 2 or three games that can go either way. Yeah, we could have won them, but we didn't. We were not a playoff caliber team, and almost all of the blame to that goes to our terrible offense.

I hope you really don't believe that we should have beaten the Jets and Panthers with McCown. Those were two teams that were clearly better than us, and McCown would have made no difference. In the St. Louis game he won, but scoring lots of points on St. Louis really doesn't really excite me. Again, you are making the argument that he showed improvement against the niners and a Larry Marmie coached defense. I bet Josh looks great against high schoolers too. He looked great against Tampa to finish the season as well, how did the announcers put it, one of the most poorly qb'd games they'd ever seen? Tons of progress....

"He gives us the best option for success this next season". How on earth can you make this claim? Have you suddenly become clairvoyant, and know how each qb that we've discussed will perform next season? Do you watch any teams other than the cards, because if you do, there are plenty of options that are far better than McCown. How many times does this guy have to crap the bed before you consider bringing in another qb to effectively run this offense?

Not sure why I responded to this? Well, I among many others are tired of reading your insane ramblings about the team followed by puerile attacks on everybody. I have to be honest, they are really stupid. Calling ASU football pitiful shows your complete lack of knowledge about college football, with all prognosticators having them in the top 25, some in the top 15 in the season coming up. More of Rats talking out of his ass? No....I won't bother responding to the rest of your immaturity, we'll see where Joshy boy is a year from now, you keep hitting the pipe and thinking he'll be the next Drew Brees!

I had a post already to send back but as you put it it would be a" puerile attack". I will simply state what was said to me and I believe. This is a message board and we are all just regular guys posting stupid ramblings. No one has any more "Credibility" than the other. This isn't the Fight Club or anything. Alot of misinformation is thrown out there and I try and post things that will give perspective. Most that is combative has to do with Josh McCowns season last year. And yes I will be the first to admit I attack the posts that don't give the full picture of his season. There is a polarized group here that attack his season at every turn. I just try and give perspective by stating the facts of it being his first season starting and first season in a new offense. He did some good things and some bad things. I have been open minded about bringing in real competition at the Qb spot because that is what the NFL is about. The thing that gets me from the McCown Bashers is that they can not offer any real solutions for the coming season. They throw out names of guys we have no hope of getting or has beens that will not elevate our team.Or they suggest we draft a guy who won't help the team for years. I have tried as many have to state that if the areas of the team that have been beat down for the last few years (Oline, running game, DT) were addressed McCown would be the Ideal Qb (makes less mistakes, is not careless with the ball,now has a season in this offense) to lead this offense for this coming season. If McCown turtles and has a crappy season I would be happy to give way to a better guy next season. But for this season until someone gives a better, realistic solution at Qb he is the option that we have to go with. As for the ASU thing...I put you and a couple others in the same little frat boy club by the way you post. You may want to call them insane ramblings...I really could care less either way...I know how much I love the Cardinals. I don't need anyone here to validate that for me.

 

[blindseyed]

Nice Job Rugby! Although Quan with an A-...I don't know BUT, hey, forums are for opinions, so cool!

Still, very well thought out and good analysis!

 

[ASUCHRIS]

The thing that gets me from the McCown Bashers is that they can not offer any real solutions for the coming season. They throw out names of guys we have no hope of getting or has beens that will not elevate our team.Or they suggest we draft a guy who won't help the team for years. I have tried as many have to state that if the areas of the team that have been beat down for the last few years (Oline, running game, DT) were addressed McCown would be the Ideal Qb (makes less mistakes, is not careless with the ball,now has a season in this offense) to lead this offense for this coming season. If McCown turtles and has a crappy season I would be happy to give way to a better guy next season. But for this season until someone gives a better, realistic solution at Qb he is the option that we have to go with. As for the ASU thing...I put you and a couple others in the same little frat boy club by the way you post. You may want to call them insane ramblings...I really could care less either way...I know how much I love the Cardinals. I don't need anyone here to validate that for me.

See, I don't understand why you take this so personally. You feel like you have to back up McCown like you are related to him. You say that we can't offer any solutions for the coming season.....there are few excellent qb's available, yes, but there are also options available of guys that can just come along for the ride. This offense is not predicated on having an excellent starting qb, rather a guy who can throw the ball down the field with accuracy, and limit mistakes

You always get back to the same tired excuses about running game and offensive line, and those excuses are really tired. How many times was Josh sacked because he has no pocket presence, or held the ball too long? How many times did he have plenty of time and recievers open down the field, and threw it ten yards over their head? I would venture to say that Josh would have had more int's if he did throw with more accuracy. I am not asking the guy to be Joe Montana, I just wanted to see some sort of progression last year, and I didn't see it.

Your strategy of giving McCown another chance, and another year starting is a pretty risky strategy. It would have been easy to imagine dissention on the team, especially after the Atlanta game, where the defense played their asses off, and the offense, especially McCown was a disaster.

You make the claim that all of our opinions are the same, because essentially we are all "just regular guys posting stupid ramblings". Well, some things said are stupider than others. You say, "McCown would be the Ideal Qb (makes less mistakes, is not careless with the ball,now has a season in this offense)" Well, that would be perfect, if that were Josh McCown. Did you watch any games this year? The guy made tons of mistakes, put the ball on the ground every other time he got hit, I mean, you can like McCown, but to make these claims about him are not just opinions, they are wrong. Statistically, McCown was one of the worst in the league at putting the ball on the ground. This is a fact.

In regards to the "frat boy club" comment that is pretty far off base. Who is in this club? How does one gain membership? I'd love to know....I am sure you are a nice guy Rats, and I hate bashing a Cards fan, but some of the opinions you have on McCown are just ridiculous.

 

[Rats]

Well, as you said we wil just have to wait and see if DG agrees with you and puts someone else under center or if he again believes in McCown and gives him another shot. That is what I mean when I say ramblings of the masses here. The only one that ultimatly is in the right and has his ass on the line is the Head Coach. The rest of us are only speculating by what we see. Several agree with your take. Several agree with mine and what I saw from tape and being at every home game. The excuses may be tired...but it doesn't make them untrue. There not IMO. But again we will have to wait and see. Should be fun.