2012 Free Agency Fun - Whether we need'em or not

[Chopper0080]

It's hilarious to me that you're comparing Early Doucet (who has made plays in pressure situations throughout his career--don't let a one-game example derail his entire career) with his 42 career games, 111 receptions, 1284 yards, and 7 TDs to DeMarco Freaking Sampson. You know, a guy who has 12 career games, 3 receptions, and zero TDs. A guy who caught 37.5 percent of his targets last year. LOL. LOL.

Why can't you bring in both a player like Meachem and hold on to Doucet? Isn't it smarter to (maybe) push Doucet down the depth chart and kick Stephen Williams or Chansi Stuckey off the roster than just try and plug a complete system WR like Meachem into Doucet's spot and hope he's as good with Kevin Kolb throwing to him as with Drew Brees?

You're making the same mistake with Early Doucet as the Cards made with Steve Breaston last year. You're better off keeping your own and continuing to develop them.

LARRY FITZGERALD IS THE DEEP THREAT FOR THIS TEAM. You're not paying him $120 million to run across the middle every down. The secondary deep target is going to be Rob Housler. This board's obsession with finding perimeter "burners" to complement Larry Fitzgerald is not only baffling, but flies in the face of current NFL trends.

Nate Burleson in Detroit had 73 receptions for 757 yards and 3 TDs for a Detroit offense that was completely incapable of running the ball. Doucet is able to deliver exactly what you expect from a #2 WR in the NFL today, and you know that he can produce in your system.

Expecting a WR from a system passing offense with a great QB to be nearly as productive in a new system with a mediocre QB is complete folly.

There is not one time in any thread that I have posted that has compared the production of Doucet and Sampson. What I have said is that they bring the same traits to our receiving corp so why invest 20 million into a guy who brings the same traits as a 7th round pick?

As far as bringing in Meachem and retaining Doucet, it would cost too much money. I agree that the roster needs to be improved, but it is not improving the roster to pay Doucet 20 million to be our 4th WR behind Fitzgerald, Meachem and Roberts.

Please don't compare Doucet and Breaston as Breaston has been more successful over more years than Doucet's one productive season.

As far as Fitzgerald goes, yes Fitzgerald can get down the field, but it hinders his ability to be a complete wide reciever when he is the only deep threat on the team. It allows teams to sit over the top of him with a safety without any threat of another player beating single coverage deep. A basic understanding of who defenses are put together would clearly show you that having a deep threat opposite of Fitzgerald would allow him to use more of his skills and prevent teams from locking him down for a few games a year. People on this board wonder how players like Calvin Johnson and Andre Johnson get fed the ball and yet teams can shut down Fitz. Some of it has to do w/ QB play, but most has to do with the players those teams put opposite of Calvin and Andre.

Facts are that if this team retains Early Doucet for the market value that you project him at, then he will be our #2 or #3 WR, and you don't get to complain about how Roberts and Doucet aren't pulling coverage off Fitz all year.

 

[Mulli]

Doucet had quite similar numbers to Breaston last year. And has only two fewer touchdowns in almost half as many receptions.

 

[wierwolf]

If for some miracle we got Manning, I would definately consider Reggie Wayne. That would be a great tandem Wayne and Fitz

 

[Duckjake]

Doucet had quite similar numbers to Breaston last year. And has only two fewer touchdowns in almost half as many receptions.

And Breaston, with his 3 consecutive seasons over 700 yards receiving was allowed to leave in free agency.

Boldin had more yards receiving as a rookie than Doucet and Roberts combined had last year but had similar numbers to Doucet last year. We don't have him anymore either.

So if Doucet is similar to Breaston and Boldin, in keeping with Cardinal tradition, he should be allowed to leave as well.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

LARRY FITZGERALD IS THE DEEP THREAT FOR THIS TEAM. You're not paying him $120 million to run across the middle every down. The secondary deep target is going to be Rob Housler. This board's obsession with finding perimeter "burners" to complement Larry Fitzgerald is not only baffling, but flies in the face of current NFL trends.

I agree with this, 100%.

When I bark about having a #2, it is not really for his depth or skill but for his role.

I would like to have a bigger WR to line up on that outside opposite of Fitz, that can get off the line, and get off the defender, and use his body and hands to make catches on the outside.

Doucet and Roberts struggle at this. They both are good slot receivers, as long as we are OK with their inability to make catches in the clutch. (The note that Doucet has made clutch catches? I question that. WHEN? Since the GB playoff game, when has Doucet been clutch?) But, just a role player to play on the outside would be nice.

I agree. Meachem, Simpson, and some others are going to have big price tags. Again, a good role player for a good price would be all I am asking for, and all I think this team lacks in the WR core.

Not looking to break the bank here. Just bring in a missing piece.

 

[Mulli]

And Breaston, with his 3 consecutive seasons over 700 yards receiving was allowed to leave in free agency.

Boldin had more yards receiving as a rookie than Doucet and Roberts combined had last year but had similar numbers to Doucet last year. We don't have him anymore either.

So if Doucet is similar to Breaston and Boldin, in keeping with Cardinal tradition, he should be allowed to leave as well.

I am hoping Cards will start to do CardsOpposite type things. Like keeping Doucet and Campbell.

 

[Chopper0080]

I agree with this, 100%.

When I bark about having a #2, it is not really for his depth or skill but for his role.

I would like to have a bigger WR to line up on that outside opposite of Fitz, that can get off the line, and get off the defender, and use his body and hands to make catches on the outside.

Doucet and Roberts struggle at this. They both are good slot receivers, as long as we are OK with their inability to make catches in the clutch. (The note that Doucet has made clutch catches? I question that. WHEN? Since the GB playoff game, when has Doucet been clutch?) But, just a role player to play on the outside would be nice.

I agree. Meachem, Simpson, and some others are going to have big price tags. Again, a good role player for a good price would be all I am asking for, and all I think this team lacks in the WR core.

Not looking to break the bank here. Just bring in a missing piece.

We are going to agree to disagree on that. I just don't get how people don't see that by not having a deep threat across from Fitz makes it easier to defend our offense. I get not wanting to invest big money into a #2 WR, but by not acquiring a player that can stress defenses vertically across from Fitz, you essentially allow them to commit a safety over the top of him all game without threat of a big play away from the bracket coverage.

 

[kerouac9]

We are going to agree to disagree on that. I just don't get how people don't see that by not having a deep threat across from Fitz makes it easier to defend our offense. I get not wanting to invest big money into a #2 WR, but by not acquiring a player that can stress defenses vertically across from Fitz, you essentially allow them to commit a safety over the top of him all game without threat of a big play away from the bracket coverage.

Are you just ignoring the existence of Rob Housler because his place on the roster complicates your love affair with an average WR like Robert Meachem? The same way ignoring that Carl Nicks is the same size as Deuce Lutui makes it easier for you to insist he's an option for this team?

 

[Duckjake]

Are you just ignoring the existence of Rob Housler because his place on the roster complicates your love affair with an average WR like Robert Meachem? The same way ignoring that Carl Nicks is the same size as Deuce Lutui makes it easier for you to insist he's an option for this team?

Rob Housler and his 12 catches with a longest reception of 21 yards? That's the guy who is going to stretch the field?

You are just not going to get me to believe that there is nobody on the planet that the Cards can get who would be a better #2 WR than Early Doucet.

 

[overseascardfan]

My pipe dream FA offseason would look like this:

Re-sign:
DE Calais Campbell - For obvious reasons

CB Richard Marshall - Teams with PP21 to solidify CB position

Sign:
OLB Cliff Avril - Will be difficult to get out of DET but fills pass rush need

ILB D'Qwell Jackson - Playmaker at ILB

OG Ben Grubbs - Would bring nastiness to interior line

WR Robert Meachem - Big play threat that would take some heat of Fitz

I know ARZ will not shell out the dough for all these players but if we could land them ARZ could really go BPA and maybe do some trading down to stock pile picks. They could look for a young OT, a SS replacement for AW, a back up QB in case they cut Kolb.

 

[Mulli]

Rob Housler and his 12 catches with a longest reception of 21 yards? That's the guy who is going to stretch the field?

You are just not going to get me to believe that there is nobody on the planet that the Cards can get who would be a better #2 WR than Early Doucet.

Jermichael Finley caught 6 his rookie year.

 

[Mulli]

Did anyone see the year Jordy Nelson had this year?

Check out his first few years:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/11270/jordy-nelson

 

[Chopper0080]

Are you just ignoring the existence of Rob Housler because his place on the roster complicates your love affair with an average WR like Robert Meachem? The same way ignoring that Carl Nicks is the same size as Deuce Lutui makes it easier for you to insist he's an option for this team?

For the guy who discredited my stating that DeMarco Sampson brings the same type of skills that Doucet does to start championing Rob Housler as the Cardinals answer as a deep threat reeks of hypocrisy.

Robert Meachem/Mario Manningham > Early Doucet

Carl Nicks > Rex Hadnot/Duece Lutui

Those are the points that I have trying to make and do not believe that even you can try and dispute.

 

[Mulli]

Did anyone keep track of how the playoff teams playing this weekend acquired their "deep threats?" Other than Ted Ginn .

 

[john h]

Eddie Royal would be an awesome get! Way better than Ginn.

You like Tony Gonzales and Greg Olsen over JErmichael Finley?

Tony Gonzales is about due for retirement. He is or was a great TE. Also a great basketball player for USC or UCLA back in the day. Probably a hall of fame caliber career. He is to old for us now.

 

[john h]

Double nuts!

Our answer to Tony is Todd Heap.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Early Doucet in 2011: 54 receptions, 689 yards, 5 TDs
Jerome Simpson in 2011: 50 receptions, 725 yards, 4 TDs
Steve Breaston in 2011: 61 receptions, 785 yards, 1 TD
Malcolm Floyd in 2011: 43 receptions, 856 yards, 5 TDs
Robert Meachem in 2011: 40 receptions, 620 yards, 6 TDs

Early Doucet is what a #2 WR looks like in the NFL in the second decade of the 21st Century. Breaston got 5 years, $25 million, with $9.5 million guaranteed. I expect that you could probably get Doucet for a little less than that (maybe $20 million with $7 million guaranteed).

I'm sorry, but nowhere in the NFL is Early a 4th WR. Not even Green Bay. Do you really think that this front office is going to throw $30 million at a #2 WR after what they're paying Fitz? After seeing how they conducted free agency last year? C'mon.

I get that the grass is always greener, but I'm still waiting for the next free agent wideout success story.

Great stats, no doubt.

Now if he could only grow another 5 to 6 inches, put on 20 lbs, and make it when I think of the guy, the first things I think of are all the drops he has had .

Nothing I can do about it. Rob Housler, Early Doucet, and Andre Roberts. Three players that I when I think of them, the first thing in my mind is "dropped passes".

Big bodied, possesion WR. Call him a #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, or #1,962.

Don't care. Just want another big body that can get off the line in our reciever core.

Whether we keep Early Dropcet or not, I could care less. The Cardinals have wasted money on players before, so I am not going to worry about that now.

I guess the grass is greener. I dunno, and I don't care about grass. I just want a player that can help Larry Fitzgerald and make a few clutch catches, cause Fitz really is the only reliable threat when you need a catch.

Sure IF Doucet catches the ball he can be dangerous, and IF Roberts catches the ball he can be dangerous. If I need a first down, with no YAC, in tight coverage, I am certainly not looking their way.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Did anyone keep track of how the playoff teams playing this weekend acquired their "deep threats?" Other than Ted Ginn .

I have watched a few teams use big possesion WR's and TE's to move the chains time, and time again.

I saw Vernon Davis catch a game winning pass by using his body, and hands.

I saw Anquan Boldin make a few big catches for his team by using his body, and hands, in tight coverage.

I saw Jimmy Graham make a play because he was just taller and bigger than anyone trying to cover him.

But no, I didn't see any speed killing anyone out on the field.

 

[Mulli]

I have watched a few teams use big possesion WR's and TE's to move the chains time, and time again.

I saw Vernon Davis catch a game winning pass by using his body, and hands.

I saw Anquan Boldin make a few big catches for his team by using his body, and hands, in tight coverage.

I saw Jimmy Graham make a play because he was just taller and bigger than anyone trying to cover him.

But no, I didn't see any speed killing anyone out on the field.

And other than Boldin (good job Cards) all of those were acquired VIA THE DRAFT!!!

 

[RugbyMuffin]

And other than Boldin (good job Cards) all of those were acquired VIA THE DRAFT!!!

Tommy Streeter - 3rd Round.

Been saying it since the beginning of our preseason.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Our answer to Tony is Todd Heap.

I am one of the few that is very happy with that situation.

I will take every last game Todd Heap has left. The guy can still play.

 

[Mulli]

Tommy Streeter - 3rd Round.

Been saying it since the beginning of our preseason.

Good job.

 

[Duckjake]

Jermichael Finley caught 6 his rookie year.

Odd I don't seem to remember anyone claiming that Finley was the guy the Packers use to stretch the field.

 

[Mulli]

Odd I don't seem to remember anyone claiming that Finley was the guy the Packers use to stretch the field.

Everyone was thinking it. Try to keep up.

 

[Duckjake]

Everyone was thinking it. Try to keep up.

Sorry didn't know you had a mouse in your pocket.