2024-2025 Around the NBA Thread

[Chaplin]

KD's play has not been why we haven't won the title. Dude has balled out, ESPECIALLY at his age. You can argue we paid too much all you want. It's not KD's fault we haven't won it all.

No, aren't you paying attention? It's because we don't have a late round pick in 2027. And because we don't have good role player for some reason.

 

[Yuma]

Teams have up’s and down’s, patience builds contenders.

Knee jerk, panic trades are the hallmark of bad teams.

Best argument I have read for giving KD that $60 million dollar extension!

This thread is going to be a delight when that happens.

 

[Hoop Head]

KD's play has not been why we haven't won the title. Dude has balled out, ESPECIALLY at his age. You can argue we paid too much all you want. It's not KD's fault we haven't won it all.

Its the total picture though. Trading for KD cost a fortune. He's not producing more than what we gave up for him. That's a large part of the problem.

 

[Hoop Head]

True. But that wasn't the deal Ishbia made. Yes, we did trade for KD, and truthfully, he's been healthier and played better than many here thought he would. Here we go again about picks that will be at the end of round one. Yes we could have held this picks and traded for lesser players than KD, or get one great player in KD, yada, Yad, yada. We all know each sides points by now. I should have @Chris_Sanders give bans to people bringing this topic up again. Last time I made my points about the trade everyone brow beat me over it. Now @Mainstreet is saying we could trade for Beal without including Bridges who we didn't even have his rights anymore. WTF kind of argument is that? I love you @Mainstreet, but those gummies must be good!

When did you buy this site? The level of arrogance in that statement is off the charts. I really thought you were better than that.

I guess the rules need amended to include

Commandment 8 - No one can mention why we're in the mess we are now because Yuma said so. He'll sic mods on you if you do, even if things are discussed in a respectable manner.

 

[Hoop Head]

No, aren't you paying attention? It's because we don't have a late round pick in 2027. And because we don't have good role player for some reason.

Good job omitting the 2023 pick, 25th, and 29th 1st round picks as well as the 26th and 28th swaps. Also how are you sure those picks will be end of the round since we barely avoided the play in this season. There's a very real chance those picks end up in the lottery.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Hindsight is 20/20 and it is hilarious that the haters are trying to use the "I told you so" argument when the results of the trade aren't even determined yet. That's b9th on the title side and yes, on the pick side as well.

Eh, for the posters that didn’t like the trade at the time it isn’t hindsight. They had the foresight to say the trade wouldn’t result in a championship.

 

[Chaplin]

Eh, for the posters that didn’t like the trade at the time it isn’t hindsight. They had the foresight to say the trade wouldn’t result in a championship.

It hasn't yet, but the ultimate answer to that question isn't set in stone yet, is it?

 

[Hoop Head]

It hasn't yet, but the ultimate answer to that question isn't set in stone yet, is it?

But...but...but....

Keep shifting the goal posts, Chap. You were wrong then and now want to wait until some date years down the road to judge the trade when I can already see you saying "That was X years ago, who cares" rather than admit you were wrong and have been grasping at straws to justify being wrong. Even claiming it's somehow hindsight now that those who felt a way 1 1/2 ago haven't changed their mind. Please tell us what hindsight means, to you, because no definition I've ever seen or heard fits your use.

 

[Chaplin]

But...but...but....

Keep shifting the goal posts, Chap. You were wrong then and now want to wait until some date years down the road to judge the trade when I can already see you saying "That was X years ago, who cares" rather than admit you were wrong and have been grasping at straws to justify being wrong. Even claiming it's somehow hindsight now that those who felt a way 1 1/2 ago haven't changed their mind. Please tell us what hindsight means, to you, because no definition I've ever seen or heard fits your use.

Man, you REALLY have a problem with me, don't you? I wonder if there is something else going on that makes you instinctively want to respond to my posts with some kind of insult.

What I said is factually correct. How do you dispute it? My original post that your responded to was meant to be a sarcastic joke. What a surprise that you didn't take it that way and took it as some kind of permission to get into an argument based on stupidity. Have fun on the ignore list. Geez.

 

[Covert Rain]

Says the guy who thought KD would lead us to a title and we HAD to trade for him. Sorry but your views on what would work and wouldn't isn't exactly infallible.

This is part of my problem with these discussions. We seem to all admit that KD trade wasn't a good trade but the side that supported it when it happened won't stop at admitting it wasn't good. They want alternatives that meet a specific criteria they set when clearly their idea of what would turn this team into a title winner is off. Those who didn't like the trade didn't like it from day 1 because we felt it wouldn't ever produce a title, which is the only thing that could justify paying such an exorbitant price. Why do we need to come up with alternatives that pass the sniff test of those who thought the initial trade passed the sniff test? That's why these discussions end up dragging on and on and its ridiculous.

Is this supposed to be some slight? Most fans and NBA analysts thought getting KD would give us a shot at an NBA title. So did the organization. So did Booker. Nobody and I mean nobody said it was a guarantee. In fact, many of us called out from the start this could backfire or not work. So I am good with my call and many others who echoed the same sentiment. If you need to rewrite history to prop up yours...have at it.

You don't get to manipulate what people are saying. Can you show me a single poster on here saying that (AS OF RIGHT NOW) the KD trade was a good one? Being FOR making a move is not the same things as analyzing the results post trade and saying it didn't work. I think everybody acknowledges it has not worked. The final call will be the results of this season IMO.

P.S. The reason these discussions keep dragging on is because some people can't seem to go more than a few days without crying about a move we can't change.

 

[Covert Rain]

Eh, for the posters that didn’t like the trade at the time it isn’t hindsight. They had the foresight to say the trade wouldn’t result in a championship.

Yes but many posters like your brother and myself (I can go back and look) also acknowledged it was a risk that could backfire. So, it's not like most posters had ZERO foresight knowing it was a possibility. I think most people recognized this as a risky move. That's not the same picture that is trying to be painted for the anti-KD crowd.

 

[Chaplin]

Is this supposed to be some slight? Most fans and NBA analysts thought getting KD would give us a shot at an NBA title. So did the organization. So did Booker. Nobody and I mean nobody said it was a guarantee. In fact, many of us called out from the start this could backfire or not work. So I am good with my call and many others who echoed the same sentiment. If you need to rewrite history to prop up yours...have at it.

You don't get to manipulate what people are saying. Can you show me a single poster on here saying that (AS OF RIGHT NOW) the KD trade was a good one? Being FOR making a move is not the same things as analyzing the results post trade and saying it didn't work. I think everybody acknowledges it has not worked. The final call will be the results of this season IMO.

P.S. The reason these discussions keep dragging on is because some people can't seem to go more than a few days without crying about a move we can't change.

Technically, the longer we DON'T win a title, the more the trade could be considered "failed". Funny enough, though, in the history of the NBA and trades, how many actually don't "fail" based on that criteria? A fraction of 1%?

We took a big chance, no argument there, but it hasn't 100% played out yet. That's the whole point. If you think that we gave up 5 lottery picks for Kevin Durant, then of course you're going to cry about the trade. But that opinion is just that, an opinion with no current basis in fact. History will tell if the trade will be a failure, just like history will tell if not drafting Haliburton was a failure -- if Haliburton never wins a title in his career, does that still mean that not drafting Haliburton was a failure? A mistake and a failure aren't necessarily the same thing.

 

[AzStevenCal]

True. But that wasn't the deal Ishbia made. Yes, we did trade for KD, and truthfully, he's been healthier and played better than many here thought he would. Here we go again about picks that will be at the end of round one. Yes we could have held this picks and traded for lesser players than KD, or get one great player in KD, yada, Yad, yada. We all know each sides points by now. I should have @Chris_Sanders give bans to people bringing this topic up again. Last time I made my points about the trade everyone brow beat me over it. Now @Mainstreet is saying we could trade for Beal without including Bridges who we didn't even have his rights anymore. WTF kind of argument is that? I love you @Mainstreet, but those gummies must be good!

We don't bring it up out of the blue, it spins off from every other decision we make because that's the way our world works. If you're tired of reading about it, how about you metaphorically slap yourself and a few others around so you will stop talking about it. You'll still get the occasional anti-trade comments but the conversation dies if the other side isn't also pushing their position.

This isn't the first time you've made these points and once again, you lay all the blame on those of us that were convinced we were spending far too much for KD while ignoring the FACT that the pro KD people sometimes start this discussion but even when they don't, they always help escalate the argument.

You don't have to agree with us but if you don't want the conversation to continue, instead of making us out to be the bad guys just STOP making points that lead to us making further responses. This is one of those times where "both sides" are responsible for this never-ending conversation. Blaming just one side for this is unfair and unreasonable.

 

[Covert Rain]

We don't bring it up out of the blue, it spins off from every other decision we make because that's the way our world works. If you're tired of reading about it, how about you slap yourself and a few others around so you will stop talking about it.

This isn't the first time you've made these points and once again, you lay all the blame on those of us that were convinced we were spending far too much for KD while ignoring the FACT that the pro KD people sometimes start this discussion but even when they don't, they always help escalate the argument.

You don't have to agree with us but if you don't want the conversation to continue, STOP making points that lead to us making further responses. This is one of those times where "both sides" are responsible for this never-ending conversation. Blaming just one side for this is unfair and unreasonable.

That's a two way street.

 

[Hoop Head]

Is this supposed to be some slight? Most fans and NBA analysts thought getting KD would give us a shot at an NBA title. So did the organization. So did Booker. Nobody and I mean nobody said it was a guarantee. In fact, many of us called out from the start this could backfire or not work. So I am good with my call and many others who echoed the same sentiment. If you need to rewrite history to prop up yours...have at it.

You don't get to manipulate what people are saying. Can you show me a single poster on here saying that (AS OF RIGHT NOW) the KD trade was a good one? Being FOR making a move is not the same things as analyzing the results post trade and saying it didn't work. I think everybody acknowledges it has not worked. The final call will be the results of this season IMO.

P.S. The reason these discussions keep dragging on is because some people can't seem to go more than a few days without crying about a move we can't change.

You've been above board and I appreciate the discussion we've had, I felt it has been really civil and respectful. I was a little worried you'd take that part of my post personally because it really doesn't apply to how we've discussed things recently. I was trying to avoid calling out posters by name and lumped in a portion directed elsewhere in a reply to you and will admit it was wrong since it seems you took it exactly in the way I was worried you would.
In the future when we're involved in a larger discussion like this I'll be sure to be more clear. We're good.


No one is rewriting history here other than @Chaplin for the most part. Some of us opposed the trade when it happened and now even mentioning the trade as the action that led to the mess this teams in with zero assets to swing a big trade causes a defensiveness like you and him displayed. There's no rewriting history, we said it was a bad trade that wouldn't work, although hoped it would, while being told by others this was necessity when it really wasn't. Claiming it was a necessity is rewriting history. Booker didn't go public saying "Trade for KD or trade me" which is the only way this trade would have been a necessity.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That's a two way street.

Absolutely and more often than not the converstion is initiated by the people like me that always hated the trade. But why in the world would anyone expect us to ignore that trade when it impacts us regularly? And keep in mind, my post was in response to a poster who once again was laying it all on the anti-trade crowd. And I'm damned sure I made the point that it was "both sides" in my post.

 

[Hoop Head]

Man, you REALLY have a problem with me, don't you? I wonder if there is something else going on that makes you instinctively want to respond to my posts with some kind of insult.

What I said is factually correct. How do you dispute it? My original post that your responded to was meant to be a sarcastic joke. What a surprise that you didn't take it that way and took it as some kind of permission to get into an argument based on stupidity. Have fun on the ignore list. Geez.

Nothing you say it factual outside of your head. Tell me how omitting pertinent details constitutes a fact based presentation of the cost the team paid for KD. Do that and I'll leave this site forever.

Why must everything be personal, Chap? Serious question. Ive asked you a million times but might as well try again, why do you claim every disagreement is a personal issue? That's not healthy. I appreciate and respect everyone here, whether we agree or not. I don't take things personally here and do my damnedest to make sure others dont also. I've reached out to members I publicly disagree with on a certain thing and make sure they know it's not personal. I did so recently with @Covert Rain and have done so with you as well but you responded with an attack. Quit taking things so personally, it's not that deep.

 

[Covert Rain]

You've been above board and I appreciate the discussion we've had, I felt it has been really civil and respectful. I was a little worried you'd take that part of my post personally because it really doesn't apply to how we've discussed things recently. I was trying to avoid calling out posters by name and lumped in a portion directed elsewhere in a reply to you and will admit it was wrong since it seems you took it exactly in the way I was worried you would.
In the future when we're involved in a larger discussion like this I'll be sure to be more clear. We're good.


No one is rewriting history here other than @Chaplin for the most part. Some of us opposed the trade when it happened and now even mentioning the trade as the action that led to the mess this teams in with zero assets to swing a by trade causes a defensiveness like you and him displayed. There's no rewriting history, we said it was a bad trade that wouldn't work, although hoped it would, while being told by others this was necessity when it really wasn't. Claiming it was a necessity is rewriting history. Booker didn't go public saying "Trade for KD or trade me" which is the only way this trade would have been a necessity.

Wasn't Chap one of those people also calling out this trade as risky that could backfire? I seem to recall him being in that crowd as well but I will let Chap speak for himself. I don't recall @Chaplin every saying that the KD TRADE WAS A NECESSITY. I seem to recall him echoing that a move was necessary. So that is rewriting history if true. Many of us disagree (including many nationally) that Book doesn't needs a major star next to him to get a shot at a title. I think the fact he has not gotten one to date is an affirmation.

 

[Hoop Head]

Wasn't Chap one of those people also calling out this trade as risky that could backfire? I seem to recall him being in that crowd as well but I will let Chap speak for himself. I don't recall @Chaplin every saying that the KD TRADE WAS A NECESSITY. I seem to recall him echoing that a move was necessary. So that is rewriting history if true. Many of us disagree (including many nationally) that Book doesn't needs a major star next to him to get a shot at a title. I think the fact he has not gotten one to date is an affirmation.

I seem to recall him saying it was risky but he downplayed that by being giddy over KD being a Phoenix Sun. Ever since then he's tried to ignore or downplay the risks like he did above where he deliberately left out multiple pieces of the trade when discussing the cost. He can claim it was a joke after the fact but that doesn't change anything. It wasn't funny and there was no punchline so that excuse seems more of a deflection from someone who won't conceded a point.

 

[Chaplin]

Wasn't Chap one of those people also calling out this trade as risky that could backfire? I seem to recall him being in that crowd as well but I will let Chap speak for himself. I don't recall @Chaplin every saying that the KD TRADE WAS A NECESSITY. I seem to recall him echoing that a move was necessary. So that is rewriting history if true. Many of us disagree (including many nationally) that Book doesn't needs a major star next to him to get a shot at a title. I think the fact he has not gotten one to date is an affirmation.

I honestly don't recall. I do remember saying that if you have a chance to acquire Kevin Durant, and he actually wants to be here, you have to look into it at the very least. I'm pretty sure I wasn't too happy with the haul, but KD's quality pretty much outweighed that at the time. As of September 2024, it still does. I definitely didn't (and still don't) value the draft picks as much as a lot of people here.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I didn't make that argument., that the players were similar.

However, the Suns were able acquire another "star" without including Bridges which proved it can be done.

You’re either being extremely obtuse or again showing you have no concept of what a star is. A broken down Bradley Beal, who can’t play more than 50 games a year, with a massive/poisonous contract, is arguably not a star anymore. And he certainly isn’t the type of #2 star needed to try and compete for a title.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Devin Booker, Mikal Bridges and Cam Johnson were a nice core.

No it’s not. It’s one great; but one-dimensional player, the best role player in the game and another role player who misses 1/4 of every season. And they would have all already entered their prime so it’s not like they’re young and have a decade to grow together.

 

[Cheesebeef]

@Covert Rain

You are better than that. I pointed out Bradley Beal was an NBA All- Star three times.

And ignored that Beal can’t stay healthy, and has the worst contract in the league.

You keep doing this.

 

[Covert Rain]

I seem to recall him saying it was risky but he downplayed that by being giddy over KD being a Phoenix Sun. Ever since then he's tried to ignore or downplay the risks like he did above where he deliberately left out multiple pieces of the trade when discussing the cost. He can claim it was a joke after the fact but that doesn't change anything. It wasn't funny and there was no punchline so that excuse seems more of a deflection from someone who won't conceded a point.

To be fair here being excited that the Suns DID SOMETHING would mean any move you made you would be excited about. People keep trying to pigeon hole being for this trade was specifically about KD. When in reality it was about getting another star level player.

 

[Hoop Head]

And ignored that Beal can’t stay healthy, and has the worst contract in the league.

You keep doing this.

And you ignored a key detail of his original post, had that pointed out, rather than admit you were wrong and apologize or anything of the sort you continue to dig at small details to goad him into an argument. What's your deal?