2024-2025 Around the NBA Thread

[Mainstreet]

No one is ignoring the free agent market. No stars or near stars are.signing for a team that is deliberately tanking while not even having the picks we'd receive from bottoming out. The absolute best we'd sign would be Jerami Grant, Tobias Harris, Jordan Poole, etc. Those guys aren't helping a team win.

Deep pockets mean nothing with the CBA restrictions going forward. Ishbia could be willing to double our tax bill tomorrow but that doesn't mean it can be done. Look at where we are because Ishbia has deep pockets as well. That isn't the answer to our problems. It's likely been a cause of some of our current issues.

Devin Booker is one of the primary reasons the Suns have been able to attract top free agents. If the Suns blow it up, that attraction is gone.

The way I see it, without the Suns owning their future draft picks, their best bet is to push the pedal to the metal and hope they can find a fix upfront.

Now, if the Suns could trade Beal for a useful piece, that changes the whole complexion of the team. They keep their core of Booker and Durant, plus they will have expiring contracts to work with down the road.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Devin Booker is one of the primary reasons the Suns have been able to attract top free agents. If the Suns blow it up, that attraction is gone.

Uh… what? What top free agent has Devin Booker attracted?

He’s attracted old stars via trade, past their prime, like CP3, and KD, but he’s never attracted any kind of top free agent or good young player to play alongside him.

 

[Mainstreet]

Uh… what? What top free agent has Devin Booker attracted?

He’s attracted old stars, past their prime, like CP3, and KD, but he’s never attracted any kind of top free agent or great young player to play alongside him.

Where are all those who wanted Kevin Durant so badly?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Where are all those who wanted Kevin Durant so badly?

Uh… I’m right here. Did you not read my post that YOU quoted? You stated that Booker has attracted top Free Agents. I literally mentioned that Booker has been able to attracted guys past their prime via TRADE. But again, neither KD nor CP3 were top Free Agents. Not to mention that most people thought Paul was on his last legs, as he had cycled through 3 different teams in 4 years and was 36 years old... and as we saw in year 2, CP3 was on his last legs). But regardless of any of that and whether he was a top anything when we TRADED for CP3, he still wasn’t a Free Agent.

So, again I’ll ask again and maybe this time you’ll answer:

Which top Free Agents has Devin Booker ever attracted?

 

[Phrazbit]

You continue to ignore the free agent market and ishbia’s deep pockets and complete disdain for losing. Ishbia isn’t going to stand for 5-6 years of putridity and has the $$$ to avoid it.

IMO, that is an argument against blowing the team up.

There are plenty of spend happy owners whose teams have hit rock bottom, largely as a result of being careless with their assets and cap.

 

[Superbone]

Until he figures out that hubris and deep pockets aren't enough to create a contending NBA team, pulls a Prokhorov, and bails.

Scary thought but I think Ishbia is a basketball lifer. He ain't going anywhere.

 

[Hoop Head]

Uh… I’m right here. Did you not read my post that YOU quoted? You stated that Booker has attracted top Free Agents. I literally mentioned that Booker has been able to attracted guys past their prime via TRADE. But again, neither KD nor CP3 were top Free Agents. Not to mention that most people thought Paul was on his last legs, as he had cycled through 3 different teams in 4 years and was 36 years old... and as we saw in year 2, CP3 was on his last legs). But regardless of any of that and whether he was a top anything when we TRADED for CP3, he still wasn’t a Free Agent.

So, again I’ll ask again and maybe this time you’ll answer:

Which top Free Agents has Devin Booker ever attracted?

I love how you're back tracking now and resorting to this stance. What FA has changed teams in the last decade and drastically changed a teams fortunes other than LeBron? Tobias Harris, Caldwell-Pope, Jerami Grant, the often injured PG13? That'll get a banner.

You yourself used to talk about stars wouldn't sign somewhere in FA unless they were teaming with another star. So what's changed? You used that to justify the KD trade and any far fetched trade idea that was out there.

Your BB IQ is trash since now the only way out of the mess you tried convincing everyone was the only way to win is now to rip down the team entirely and start from scratch. But sure, lets listen to the most vocal supporter of why we're in this position. Your track record doesn't promote confidence and by your own admission you've missed most games this season.

 

[Mainstreet]

Uh… I’m right here. Did you not read my post that YOU quoted? You stated that Booker has attracted top Free Agents. I literally mentioned that Booker has been able to attracted guys past their prime via TRADE. But again, neither KD nor CP3 were top Free Agents. Not to mention that most people thought Paul was on his last legs, as he had cycled through 3 different teams in 4 years and was 36 years old... and as we saw in year 2, CP3 was on his last legs). But regardless of any of that and whether he was a top anything when we TRADED for CP3, he still wasn’t a Free Agent.

So, again I’ll ask again and maybe this time you’ll answer:

Which top Free Agents has Devin Booker ever attracted?

The Suns re-signed Chris Paul as a free agent. I see you edited that.

However, Kevin Durant, Bradley Beal and Tyus Jones wouldn't have come to the Suns without Devin Booker.

Attracting top players is really the name of the game.

 

[Hoop Head]

Where are all those who wanted Kevin Durant so badly?

I find it humorous that the most vocal people calling for the team to be torn down entirely were the loudest about why we "needed" to trade for Durant. Not even 2 full seasons or years and they can't support the KD trade deal anymore. It kind of shows how flawed their perspective is and also impulsive they are.

I recognize there aren't a lot of good options going forward but I only support a firesale if it begins with getting our picks back. It's really not worth getting into beyond that, AFAIC.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Scary thought but I think Ishbia is a basketball lifer. He ain't going anywhere.

Yeah… gotta hope he finds his inner Mark Cuban. Which isn’t to say Cuban was an incredible owner, but was savvy enough to at least make that franchise a contender and win a title and be good again with Doncic after the Mavs has been terrible for a long time before him.

 

[Superbone]

Yeah… gotta hope he finds his inner Mark Cuban. Which isn’t to say Cuban was an incredible owner, but was savvy enough to at least make that franchise a contender and win a title and be good again with Doncic after the Mavs has been terrible for a long time before him.

That's a great comparison. I hope!

 

[Mainstreet]

I find it humorous that the most vocal people calling for the team to be torn down entirely were the loudest about why we "needed" to trade for Durant. Not even 2 full seasons or years and they can't support the KD trade deal anymore. It kind of shows how flawed their perspective is and also impulsive they are.

I recognize there aren't a lot of good options going forward but I only support a firesale if it begins with getting our picks back. It's really not worth getting into beyond that, AFAIC.

We agree.

I wasn't supportive of what the Suns gave up in the Durant trade, but they can't be as reckless trying to remedy the trade as they were hasty in making it.

I'm hoping James Jones is not thinking everything is all right with the Suns if everyone is healthy... because it's not.

 

[Mainstreet]

Pistons center Paul Reed is waived.

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[AzStevenCal]

I find it humorous that the most vocal people calling for the team to be torn down entirely were the loudest about why we "needed" to trade for Durant. Not even 2 full seasons or years and they can't support the KD trade deal anymore. It kind of shows how flawed their perspective is and also impulsive they are.

I recognize there aren't a lot of good options going forward but I only support a firesale if it begins with getting our picks back. It's really not worth getting into beyond that, AFAIC.

I realize you're generalizing but I don't believe there was anyone here more dead-set against trading for KD than I was and as you know, I'm very much in the fire sale camp. But that aside, I have no problem with people changing their minds, it's the ones that refuse to do so that worry me. And to be clear, that is not a shot at anyone here, it's a general statement.

 

[Hoop Head]

I realize you're generalizing but I don't believe there was anyone here more dead-set against trading for KD than I was and as you know, I'm very much in the fire sale camp. But that aside, I have no problem with people changing their minds, it's the ones that refuse to do so that worry me. And to be clear, that is not a shot at anyone here, it's a general statement.

I'm open to people changing their minds but to flip so soon after being so adamant that a move was correct shows me they lack conviction and aren't as staunch as their belief as they present themselves. For example, KD trade. We heard for months why it needed to happen and that was our only hope and 1 full season since they want off that train and are keeping the same decibel level to say "this is the way" when they fail to acknowledge why they were wrong. They kind of try brushing the fact they were wrong aside. Being loud doesn't equal right. Accepting you were wrong means nothing because this was part of why those of us who didn't like the deal were against it, we're stuck paying for it for the next 5-6 years. There's no way out of that outside of getting our picks back, which is where the "tear it down" discussion should begin and end, AFAIC. If we can't get our picks back then we might as well continue down the path we're on and make small tweaks to improve and pray for a miracle vs let someone else benefit from our misfortune in the form of ranking now and handing over lottery picks to develop late round picks. The chance we draft a star with a late round pick and develop him here is lower than that of a lucky playoff run, IMO. So the choice seems clear to me.

I didn't say ALL for a reason, I said most deliberately. You are an exception to that. You also haven't been nearly as vocal as them in terms of advocating a teardown. You've said your piece and haven't tried convincing others that is the only way forward. You believe it may be the best path forward, which is fair, but recognize and respect there other other views.

 

[Yuma]

Uh… I’m right here. Did you not read my post that YOU quoted? You stated that Booker has attracted top Free Agents. I literally mentioned that Booker has been able to attracted guys past their prime via TRADE. But again, neither KD nor CP3 were top Free Agents. Not to mention that most people thought Paul was on his last legs, as he had cycled through 3 different teams in 4 years and was 36 years old... and as we saw in year 2, CP3 was on his last legs). But regardless of any of that and whether he was a top anything when we TRADED for CP3, he still wasn’t a Free Agent.

So, again I’ll ask again and maybe this time you’ll answer:

Which top Free Agents has Devin Booker ever attracted?

What do you mean top free agents? Name some. Because guys in their prime like Embiid, Jokic, etc, are not going to be switching teams. Let's be realistic. CP3, despite his age was considered a top free agent and/or trade piece when he came here. Beal, too. Not that they were top free agents, but almost everyone that James Jones has brought in lately has said they wanted to play with Book and KD. I know people like to criticize Book, but he has attracted guys to Phoenix that wouldn't have come here previously.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Nets are trading Dennis Schroder to the Warriors for De'Anthony Melton.

Second round picks are involved.

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[Cheesebeef]

I love how you're back tracking now and resorting to this stance. What FA has changed teams in the last decade and drastically changed a teams fortunes other than LeBron? Tobias Harris, Caldwell-Pope, Jerami Grant, the often injured PG13? That'll get a banner.

You yourself used to talk about stars wouldn't sign somewhere in FA unless they were teaming with another star. So what's changed? You used that to justify the KD trade and any far fetched trade idea that was out there.

Your BB IQ is trash since now the only way out of the mess you tried convincing everyone was the only way to win is now to rip down the team entirely and start from scratch. But sure, lets listen to the most vocal supporter of why we're in this position. Your track record doesn't promote confidence and by your own admission you've missed most games this season.

This helps the convo.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The Suns re-signed Chris Paul as a free agent. I see you edited that.

I didn’t change anything. We TRADED for Chris Paul. Are you really counting getting Chris Paul to re-sign with the Suns… when he was just a Sun… as “attracting top FA”? I guess that’s true on a technicality, but I was pretty sure we were talking about attracting FA outside of the the team TO the team. Not keeping our own. At that point the entire team and a huge contract is what brought CP3 back, not just Booker.

However, Kevin Durant, Bradley Beal and Tyus Jones wouldn't have come to the Suns without Devin Booker.

You can say that about Durant, but you can’t about Tyus or Beal. The KD/Booker duo and having built a culture of winning since CP3 joined the team landed those guys and one them has been considered a toxic situation because of contract/injuries. So not sure attracting Beal is a real feather in anyone’s cap.

KD has been able to attract FAs. That is without a doubt. He did it with the Nets and with us. And I believe Booker and the Suns are a beneficiary of that gravitational pull he has.

The thing that leads me to believe that is looking at the pathetic FA haul we had once we became the laughingstock of the NBA Playoffs in 2022. We were looked at as a team on the decline, with questions about CP3 and that summer where Booker was really the only marquee player, we couldn’t attract anyone of note to join the team in FA. Our best get was… Damion Lee and Jock Landale. Also, even as the best team in the league in 2021/2022, with CP3 and Booker, we continually watched buyout FAs pass us up, with a lot of them going to… KD and Brooklyn. So he wasn’t pulling too buyout guys when we were great either.

The next season, with KD and Booker, we started attracting FAs again getting guys to play for the minimum we couldn’t before like Gordon and Tyus this year. We didn’t get those guys the previous year.

But that was KD AND BOOKER, not Booker alone.

The best FA we signed before we traded for CP3 and he actually made us a contender was… Ricky Rubio and Trevor Ariza’s ghost.

Attracting top players is really the name of the game.

So now you’ve changed youre argument. Now you’re saying attracting top players is the name of the game but that wasn’t your original argument that Booker can attract Top Free Agents.

And again, it’s the combo package of KD AND BOOKER who have attracted guys to come in on minimums that wouldn’t otherwise.

 

[Cheesebeef]

What do you mean top free agents? Name some.

Why should I name some top free agents? I never made the claim that we brought them in. Ask @Mainstreet . He’s the one who made the claim in the first place.

Because guys in their prime like Embiid, Jokic, etc, are not going to be switching teams. Let's be realistic. CP3, despite his age was considered a top free agent and/or trade piece when he came here. Beal, too.

Can we be more honest? Top Trade Pieces aren’t traded for 1st round pick, Ricky Rubio and one of the Valley Boyz like CP3 was and Top Trade Pieces sure as hell aren’t traded for an expiring contract, 2nd rounders and 2 picks swaps like Beal and his chronically broken ass/toxic contract was.

Even KD was a risky deal half of the board here hated and still hate. They were all pretty risky deals, but CP3 and Beal were not top FA or top trade pieces. And we’ve watched first hand why they weren’t… can’t stay healthy, got too old too fast, massive contacts to put us over the apron without getting near the return on investment. CP3 burned out before two years were over and Beal’s never even got off the launch platform.

Not that they were top free agents, but almost everyone that James Jones has brought in lately has said they wanted to play with Book and KD.

Book AND KD is the distinction here. I do believe that guys for the last couple years have wanted to come here because of BOTH of them, and I think KD would still carry a little of that away somewhere else simply because he’s a legend and is still a top 5-10 player when healthy (which is rare)0, but Book on his own has become a bit of a question mark as I think the last three years of playoff embarassments and the team being an also-ran have started to take some bloom off Book’s rose.

know people like to criticize Book, but he has attracted guys to Phoenix that wouldn't have come here previously.

And again, I actually do think Book enticed guys like CP3 and KD, but those were both pretty big risks and guys at the end of their careers and I think Book’s been exposed the last couple years as not quite the superstar we all hoped he’d be. That will complicate getting superstars to play with him again, At least the kind of superstar who can lead this team to a title, IMO.

 

[Hoop Head]

This helps the convo.

And your incessant nitpicking does? It was clear what @Mainstreet was saying. You want to nitpick and complain because your whole idea to get the Suns over the hump failed and now you want abandon ship after 1 full season. That shows how committed you were then and now. You actually stand for nothing because you can't hold a firm belief beyond 1 season and now you supposedly have the answers for the next 5-6 seasons? That's funny. Tell us what changed? You haven't done that but your quick to tell others theyre wrong, because as i said that's who you are and what you do. You're free to believe that but don't be surprised when it's called out and dismissed as your new temporary stance.