7/8/04 Insider

sunsfn

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Thursday, July 8, 2004

By Chad Ford
ESPN Insider

On Tuesday we wrote that the free-agent spending was out of control, and that was before Rafer Alston and Hedo Turkoglu signed big, multi-year offers with the Raptors and Magic.
What's really amazing is that all of these big deals have been offered and there's still a number of teams with major cap room to spend.
The Hawks still have all $20 million to blow. The Bobcats haven't spent a penny of their $17 million. The Nuggets and Jazz both still have between $15 and $16 million left. The Spurs and the Clippers have around $14 million left.
If Kobe re-signs with the Lakers and Kenyon Martin re-ups with the Nets, both very likely at this point, where is all the rest of the money going to go?
Emanuel Ginobili will get a big chunk of either the Nuggets' or Spurs' dough. The Clippers will likely use their money on Kobe or to match the Suns' six-year, $50 million offer to Quentin Richardson.
After that there's only one guy left on the board who's worth major cash -- Carlos Boozer. If I'm Cavs GM Jim Paxson, I'm sweating bullets right now.


Carlos Boozer could receive an offer that's too good to refuse.
Paxson made a very unusual move last week when he didn't pick up the Cavs' option for Boozer's third year. Boozer was set to only make the minimum and, according to sources, approached that Cavs, via agent Rob Pelinka, with a proposal: Don't pick up the option and, in return, he'd re-sign with the Cavs for the mid-level.
Boozer became a restricted free agent, but because the Cavs only have Boozer's Early Bird rights (which teams get after having a player under contract for two years) and are over the cap, the most they can offer him is the mid-level exception. Had the Cavs picked up Boozer's option, they would've owned his full Bird Rights next summer and would've been able to match any offer for Boozer.
By almost every account, a deal is done between the two sides and Boozer will be making around $5 million this year, a nice pay jump from the $695,000 he earned last season.
What Pelinka and Boozer couldn't have accounted for when they cut the verbal, non-binding agreement with the Cavs was how the market would play out. As it turns out, several teams, including the Jazz, Nuggets and Bobcats, are very interested in Boozer and are capable of paying him much, much more than what the Cavs can.
The Jazz, in particular, are dangerous. They need a tough, rebounding power forward to put on the floor with Mehmet Okur, and Boozer would be the perfect fit. Given Boozer's production last season, a contract starting at between $7 and $8 million a year isn't out of the question given the market. In fact, he could be worth more considering his position and production (15.5 ppg, 11.4 rpg) last season.
Would Boozer, if confronted with an offer sheet for considerably more than the mid-level, waver on his commitment to the Cavs? That's the question. Pelinka didn't return several phone calls on Wednesday to talk about the dilemma. He's remained quiet through the process with his two biggest free agents, Boozer and Kobe.
So we called up another prominent agent, laid out the facts, and asked him what he would do if Boozer was his client and wanted to renege on the handshake deal with the Cavs. For all of you who think that agents are more crooked than Owen Wilson's nose, you better sit down for this.
"I'd resign immediately if a client wanted to renege on a deal, even a verbal one," one agent told Insider. "I still believe integrity in this business matters. If you agree on a deal, you have to live with, no matter what else happens. I personally believe that Boozer and his agent miscalculated a bit here. But I also understand what they did. Players want security. The Cavs can offer that. It just means he has to take less money to get it now. It's a tradeoff."
While there is no evidence to suggest Boozer would even entertain an offer from other teams, the Cavs have to be worried. Sources claim that both the Jazz and the Nuggets are mulling making Boozer a big offer. Boozer, who has said publicly several times that he wants to return to Cleveland, could just laugh it off. But as the money gets higher, so does the temptation to change course.
What happens to the Cavs if he bolts? One of two things. Either Paxson loses his job or the Cavs are quick on their feet and try to make a deal that gets them far enough under the cap to match the offer for Boozer. The team, assuming there's a $45 million cap, is already about $2 million under the cap. They could attempt to trade a player or two, like a combination of Tony Battie and Dajuan Wagner or Zydrunas Ilgauskas to a team with enough cap room to absorb their contracts. That's not easy, but it's not impossible either.

Around the League

Have the Nuggets missed the boat? The Nuggets came into free agency with the goal of adding at least one major piece to their rebuilding puzzle. But to date they've only re-signed Marcus Camby. They've flirted with Kobe, Kenyon Martin, Ginobili and Richardson, but still haven't made an offer to anyone.
By all accounts, their chances of landing Kobe are slim. Richardson just agreed to an offer sheet with the Suns. That leaves Martin and Ginobili. Martin was in Denver on Wednesday, but it doesn't sound like the visit was a smashing success.
"My No. 1 choice is to remain in New Jersey," Martin told reporters. "I've said that from Day 1. . . . But we'll see. If it's not meant to be, it won't be there."
Nuggets GM Kiki Vandeweghe told Insider on Wednesday evening that it's likely Martin returns to the Nets.
"I think his preference is to return home and frankly, that's what I told him I thought he should do," Vandeweghe told Insider. "I know that sounds kind of funny, but my general philosophy is that if a player is happy where's he's out he should stay there. He should figure out how to work out a deal there. I just think it's better for the league that way."
While Vandeweghe didn't rule out making an offer for Martin, that doesn't sound like the most compelling sales pitch in the world. If K-Mart is out of the picture, that means Ginobili is the guy, right? If the team waits too much longer, they may end up with nothing.


Manu Ginobili
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2003-2004 SEASON STATISTICS
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RPG
APG
FG%
FT%
77
12.8
4.5
3.8
.418
.802

"We'll see," Vandeweghe told Insider. "We have a lot of interest in him. He's a restricted free agent, which makes things difficult for us. I know we need to get something done and I'd like to think we'll be making someone an offer soon, but right now we haven't made an offer to anyone. The market's surprised us a little bit. Everyone is signing a little quicker and for a little more money than we had originally anticipated."
Meanwhile, Ginobili's agent, Herb Rudoy, is pacing the floor. Rudoy told Insider on Wednesday that his client and the Spurs were still "miles apart" in negotiations. With almost all of Ginobili's other options realistically gone, that puts pressure on everyone to get something done with Denver.
"I'm waiting around like an expectant mother," Rudoy told Insider. "We haven't gotten an offer yet from anyone. I still believe we'll be hearing something from Denver very soon."
Maybe. But the Nuggets know they are walking in a mine field with Ginobili. A league source told Insider on Wednesday evening that the Spurs will very likely match any offer for Ginobili unless Kobe Bryant commits to them.
The Nuggets were believed to be preparing an offer that started as high as $8 to $9 million per season in an effort to scare off the Spurs. However, the source claims that the team would match the offer, even if it goes that high. With Hedo Turkoglu also getting a big offer from the Magic, the team can't afford to lose them both.
If that happens, the Nuggets could be left holding lots of cap room but no significant free-agent additions this summer.
"I'm fine with that if it happens," Vandeweghe said. "We're not going to panic or overspend. We're going to retain our flexibility. We have a number of first round picks and lots of cap room. There are a lot of ways to add players."

Will the Clips match the Suns' offer for Q? The Suns reversed course quickly on Wednesday after learning that Hedo Turkoglu, whom they had brought into town on Tuesday and expected to sign, had gotten a more lucrative offer from the Magic.
The Suns, according to league sources, gave a six-year, $50 million offer sheet to Quentin Richardson. While the Richardson deal doesn't raise eyebrows financially, it's another unusual move for the Suns.


Quentin Richardson
Shooting Guard
Los Angeles Clippers

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2003-2004 SEASON STATISTICS
GM
PPG
RPG
APG
FG%
FT%
65
17.2
6.4
2.1
.398
.740

First, the offer is reasonable enough that there's a good chance that the Clippers will match it if they don't land Kobe. Because the Suns gave Q all of their remaining cap space, that means that the Suns' money will be locked up until July 29th, the deadline for the Clippers to match the offer. Given the Clippers' past history, they'll wait all 15 days to tell the Suns what they want to do, unless Bryant comes on board.
Second, the team already has Joe Johnson, Leandro Barbosa and Casey Jacobsen who play the two. Given their hole at center, was Q really necessary? The Suns declined comment on the deal. However, another league source believes that the Suns' offer for Q was a good one.
"Q gives the Suns a couple of things," the source told Insider. "He's tough and one of the hardest working guys in the league. They're looking for character guys who can lead by example on the floor. Nash and Q both fit the description. The team wasn't going to get a great center with their remaining cap room. Why use it to overpay someone? Remember Luc Longley? The Suns don't want to get in a situation like that again. I think it's conceivable that with Q on board, the team could dangle either Joe or Shawn (Marion) in an attempt to get a big man on the trade market. Signing Q gives them options and it also gives them leverage should someone like Johnson blow up this year and demand a fortune in free agency next summer."

Nash's contract details: Speaking of the Suns, if you do the math, the team shouldn't be able to fit both Nash's five-year, $65 million deal and Q's six-year, $50 million deal into its existing cap room.
That's because we've been misreporting the Nash deal to a certain extent. According to a source who's seen the offer sheet, Nash's deal is guaranteed for six years at $60 million, not five years at $65. Year six is only partially guaranteed. Nash could get up to $66 million for six years if he reaches all of his incentives. But for cap purposes, it's six for $60 million, meaning his deal averages $10 million per. Suddenly, that doesn't sound quite as outrageous as Mark Cuban makes it sound.

Blount to choose today" It looks like center Mark Blount will be the next free agent to come off the board. His agent, Mark Bartelstein, told Insider late Wednesday night that Blount had received four serious offers from teams that he was considering.
"Mark's going to sleep on it tonight and make his decision in the morning," Bartelstein told Insider.
It's believed that the Celtics and Sixers are the two favorites to land Blount's services.

Turkoglu cashes in: While the Spurs may have to seriously considering matching any offer for Ginobili, don't expect them to match the Magic's huge offer for Hedo Turkoglu. As Insider first reported on Wednesday afternoon, the Magic offered Turkoglu a whopping six-year deal for their full mid-level exception. That beat the Suns' six-year, $30 million offer by as much as $9 million depending on where the mid-level exception comes in.
GMs were stunned by the numbers. Only Adonal Foyle's deal with the Warriors has turned more heads. Ironically, both contracts were negotiated by Lon Babby, making him our leading candidate for agent of the summer.

:)
 

carey

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sunsfn said:
Thursday, July 8, 2004
That's because we've been misreporting the Nash deal to a certain extent. According to a source who's seen the offer sheet, Nash's deal is guaranteed for six years at $60 million, not five years at $65. Year six is only partially guaranteed. Nash could get up to $66 million for six years if he reaches all of his incentives. But for cap purposes, it's six for $60 million, meaning his deal averages $10 million per. Suddenly, that doesn't sound quite as outrageous as Mark Cuban makes it sound.

Finally.
 

elindholm

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But for cap purposes, it's six for $60 million

That's a little weird. Incentives count against the cap if the league considers them "likely" to be achieved. I wonder what "unlikely" incentives are included in the contract?
 

slinslin

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elindholm said:
But for cap purposes, it's six for $60 million

That's a little weird. Incentives count against the cap if the league considers them "likely" to be achieved. I wonder what "unlikely" incentives are included in the contract?

All-Nba team, MVP, Finals MVP, All-defensive team, 6th man, dunk contest winner, allstar, 50+ wins every season... ;)
 

elindholm

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Anyway Nash's contract probably starts at about 8 mil. what is reasonable.

Or $8.8 million, which is what slinslin came up with. I agree that that isn't too far out of line, which makes it a little puzzling why Cuban balked at matching it. I guess the sixth year really scared him off.
 

Lefty

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I was against the signing of Nash but after reading about his contract it's not as outrageous as was first reported. If Q is signed I see the Suns making a trade.
 

SweetD

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Zona90 said:
I was against the signing of Nash but after reading about his contract it's not as outrageous as was first reported. If Q is signed I see the Suns making a trade.
I hate to say it but it would look like Marion would be the one to go. With his high salary and dropping production he might be on the block. I still think JJ is the future since he can play 1,2,and 3 plus his price is very low.
 

elindholm

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I hate to say it but it would look like Marion would be the one to go.

In a trade for whom? Duncan? Apparently this board doesn't believe that Marion will be traded for anything less than an All-Star PF/C.
 

cepstrum

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elindholm said:
I hate to say it but it would look like Marion would be the one to go.

In a trade for whom? Duncan? Apparently this board doesn't believe that Marion will be traded for anything less than an All-Star PF/C.
hey man, now youre taking it to the extreme. I mean would you do a straight lafrentz for marion trade if the numbers worked out? I wouldnt and I'm pretty sure 95% of this board wouldnt.
 

SweetD

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elindholm said:
I hate to say it but it would look like Marion would be the one to go.

In a trade for whom? Duncan? Apparently this board doesn't believe that Marion will be traded for anything less than an All-Star PF/C.
Well I wouldn't trade him for Raf. :biglaugh: We would need to work with a team with Cap space and ATL or Utah just don't have the big man we would want. I am sure we will keep Marion until mid next year. Patience grasshopper
 

scotsman13

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elindholm said:
I hate to say it but it would look like Marion would be the one to go.

In a trade for whom? Duncan? Apparently this board doesn't believe that Marion will be traded for anything less than an All-Star PF/C.


i am not saying that he would be traded for duncan. miller might be a better target if it were marion. if it were jj i would say nene. but not someone who is a who is so grossly over paid and weakness an area of weakness already.
 

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sunsfn said:
Nash's contract details: Speaking of the Suns, if you do the math, the team shouldn't be able to fit both Nash's five-year, $65 million deal and Q's six-year, $50 million deal into its existing cap room.
That's because we've been misreporting the Nash deal to a certain extent. According to a source who's seen the offer sheet, Nash's deal is guaranteed for six years at $60 million, not five years at $65. Year six is only partially guaranteed. Nash could get up to $66 million for six years if he reaches all of his incentives. But for cap purposes, it's six for $60 million, meaning his deal averages $10 million per. Suddenly, that doesn't sound quite as outrageous as Mark Cuban makes it sound.

Yeah, for two reasons, right? :p

Chad Ford doesn't know jack about the salary cap, so my bet is that the deal is exactly the same as Aldridge reported--Nash might be able to guarantee the second half of his sixth-year salary by meeting incentives, but that's the only wrinkle I can imagine.

Salary in the first year is what determines the cap hit. When we broke down both contracts, there seems to be barely enough money for both, but there's enough.


I'm still not sure what the deal is with the Q contract. $40m-$48m is a pretty big spread; I wonder whether there's some kind of fancy incentive work in there to try and discourage the Clippers from matching... :shrug:
 

elindholm

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hey man, now youre taking it to the extreme. I mean would you do a straight lafrentz for marion trade if the numbers worked out?

I never suggested a straight-up trade.
 

SweetD

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elindholm said:
hey man, now youre taking it to the extreme. I mean would you do a straight lafrentz for marion trade if the numbers worked out?

I never suggested a straight-up trade.

LaFrentz's contract is bad, but he'll make about $14 million less over the next five years than Marion will. Those are decent savings. And since a straight-up trade favors Phoenix, the Suns should be able to get some extra value out of the deal -- not that I know what it is. Maybe Eisley could get worked in there somehow, although it's not clear how
Really ??? :shrug:
 

elindholm

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WHOOPS!

That was a typo, seriously! I meant a straight-up trade favors Boston.

Geez, now I know why everyone was so upset! :oops:
 

SweetD

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elindholm said:
WHOOPS!

That was a typo, seriously! I meant a straight-up trade favors Boston.

Geez, now I know why everyone was so upset! :oops:
I am upset! :hulk:
 

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elindholm said:
WHOOPS!

That was a typo, seriously! I meant a straight-up trade favors Boston.

Geez, now I know why everyone was so upset! :oops:
I never said I was upset. ..... :biglaugh:
 
OP
OP
S

sunsfn

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elindholm said:
WHOOPS!

That was a typo, seriously! I meant a straight-up trade favors Boston.

Geez, now I know why everyone was so upset! :oops:


I have not even read it and I am upset.....

:lol:
 

thegrahamcrackr

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F-Dog said:
Yeah, for two reasons, right? :p

Chad Ford doesn't know jack about the salary cap, so my bet is that the deal is exactly the same as Aldridge reported--Nash might be able to guarantee the second half of his sixth-year salary by meeting incentives, but that's the only wrinkle I can imagine.

Salary in the first year is what determines the cap hit. When we broke down both contracts, there seems to be barely enough money for both, but there's enough.


I'm still not sure what the deal is with the Q contract. $40m-$48m is a pretty big spread; I wonder whether there's some kind of fancy incentive work in there to try and discourage the Clippers from matching... :shrug:

Ford knows more than any other ESPN analyst, thats for sure (and not saying much at the same time.)


Q's deal is supposedly between 48 and 50 million.

I would assume Slin's numbers are close to what the deal is (starting at 8.8 ) for Nash. My guess is that Cuban didn't want to pay the extra year. The deal he offered was for 4 years, needing incentives to guarantee the 5th. The suns went a step furhter (and about 14 million).

If we have the 16.3 BC estimated in cap space, take out the 8.8 million for Nash and we have 7.5 remaining.



A contract starting at 7,500,000 would equal 56.25 million over 6 years (Assuming 10 percent raises). That is about 6 million higher than stated, so I would assume that the Suns gave him an offer a little lower just in case they over estimated the cap.

BTW, sorry if the numbers had already been gone over, haven't had a chance to read everything yet.
 

George O'Brien

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We don't know what these contracts actually say, just the various guesses that reporters are giving us. On the Nash deal, I was thinking that maybe the Suns had figured out a way to keep some of the cap room available by using the sixth year. A deal starting at $8.5 versus $10 would make a major difference.

The situation with the Q deal is even more bizzare. The Republic reported the total deal is between $42 million and $50 million. Good grief, that is almost $1 million difference on the first year.

If the cap is set at $45 million, the Suns would have begun with $17 million.
If Nash starts at $8.5 and Q at $5.5, that would total $14 million - leaving $3 million left.

By an amazing coincidence, that is about the amount it would take to re-sign McDyess.
 

Dave64

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Good points, George! McDyess still may be in play.
 

cly2tw

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George O'Brien said:
The situation with the Q deal is even more bizzare. The Republic reported the total deal is between $42 million and $50 million. Good grief, that is almost $1 million difference on the first year.

If the cap is set at $45 million, the Suns would have begun with $17 million.
If Nash starts at $8.5 and Q at $5.5, that would total $14 million - leaving $3 million left.

By an amazing coincidence, that is about the amount it would take to re-sign McDyess.

How about the following stipulation in contract for Q: min. starting salary for 04/05 is 5.5 mil, but he will get whatever the remaining cap of the team will be minus 3 mil in the moment the contract comes into effect; then 10 % annual increase for 6 years.

Is this kind of clause allowed by the CBA? Alternatively, Q is to get bonus up to 3 mil any year the team's total salary is below the cap limit. heheh. :thumbup:
 

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