A painful year for Valley sports teams.

[Phrazbit]

So close yet so far...

Cardinals go 10-6, tied for their best record AZ Cards history... miss the playoffs.

Suns win 47+ games, will almost certainly miss the playoffs. If they win 49 games and miss the playoffs it will tie the record for the best mark in league history to miss the playoffs. The tie will be with the 72 Phoenix Suns.

Coyotes will have the best record of non playoff teams in the NHL this year.

Dbacks led the West for the majority of the 2013 season, only to have the Dodgers go on a massive run and blow past them.

Even on the college front, ASU hosted the conference title game with a chance at the Rose Bowl and was crushed, while the Arizona Wildcats spent more weeks at #1 than any team and were left one point away from the Final 4.

 

[ProdigalSun]

damn...I need a drink

 

[BC867]

I wouldn't include the Suns in this group. For a roster predicted to be one of the worst in the NBA, they overachieved.

Yes, our expectations rose as the season progressed but, for a team with most of its talent in the backcourt, they pushed it as far as they could. With the pressure there, it is no coincidence that the key injuries have been in the backcourt.

The test will be the moves needed in the off-season to add frontcourt strength in a 50-isn't-good-enough Western Conference.

Next season's expectations will be justifiably higher. If the result is the same, it will be a painful year for the Suns and its fans.

 

[Chaplin]

The Suns didn't overachieve. The fans and pundits underestimated. Overachieving implies that the team was better than it had every right to be. Valid argument if you knew these players and how they would play as a team and individually. But nobody knew that. Bunch of no-names? Don't know the players, but they MUST be awful and they must be an awful team. They proved people wrong.

This has been an overwhelmingly successful season for the Suns.

 

[Catlover]

I wouldn't include the Suns in this group. For a roster predicted to be one of the worst in the NBA, they overachieved.

Yes, our expectations rose as the season progressed but, for a team with most of its talent in the backcourt, they pushed it as far as they could. With the pressure there, it is no coincidence that the key injuries have been in the backcourt.

The test will be the moves needed in the off-season to add frontcourt strength in a 50-isn't-good-enough Western Conference.

Next season's expectations will be justifiably higher. If the result is the same, it will be a painful year for the Suns and its fans.

That is always the problem with raised expectations. I think it's unrealistic though to expect a team to go from 1st year of a re-build to a finished product. I'll be okay with missing the playoffs again next year or making a 1st round exit as long as we don't waste our assets. I look at Plumlee and Len and I'm not convinced they're just months away from being first line players. If McDonough considers them our future, we might not a little patience here.

 

[SirStefan32]

That is always the problem with raised expectations. I think it's unrealistic though to expect a team to go from 1st year of a re-build to a finished product. I'll be okay with missing the playoffs again next year or making a 1st round exit as long as we don't waste our assets. I look at Plumlee and Len and I'm not convinced they're just months away from being first line players. If McDonough considers them our future, we might not a little patience here.

I think Len is years away from being anything that looks like an NBA player, but Plumlee is already an NBA player. When given enough minutes, he delivers a double-double. He played hurt, and hit the proverbial rookie wall, but in my opinion he had a very good season, despite Hornacek refusing to play him in 2nd and 4th quarters. I think Plumlee will be a solid player in this league very quickly.

 

[Catlover]

I think Len is years away from being anything that looks like an NBA player, but Plumlee is already an NBA player. When given enough minutes, he delivers a double-double. He played hurt, and hit the proverbial rookie wall, but in my opinion he had a very good season, despite Hornacek refusing to play him in 2nd and 4th quarters. I think Plumlee will be a solid player in this league very quickly.

I don't know what to think about Miles. He's agile, jumps well, has great footwork with a nice touch and a solid frame. But he gets taken advantage of by a lot of back to the basket players. Maybe that's just a lack of experience and familiarity but he looks like he's standing still when they put a move on him. As for Len, I consider this year to be a throwaway for him. No preseason work put him several steps behind. Next year will be much like this one was for Plumlee, functionally his rookie year. I doubt he matches Plumlee's season but I'm not disillusioned by what we say this year.

 

[Phrazbit]

I wasnt trying to say the Suns failed, just pointing out that we had so many teams that had good seasons, only to fall just short some level of glory.

 

[Mulli]

What did they achieve?

 

[95pro]

Best of the worst

 

[Mainstreet]

I especially consider the Cardinals and Suns as success stories. I feel real good about these teams. They are teams on their way up. Except for the Sun Devils in football, I don't follow the other teams much. The Sun Devils winning the PAC 12 South and hosting the championship game cannot be considered failure although I am disappointed in their bowl performance.

 

[Catlover]

What did they achieve?

Best of the worst

They didn't "achieve" anything. But they will finish with the 11th or 12th best record overall and for a team that was expected to be the worst or 2nd worst team in the league that's not too bad. There will be at least 5 playoff teams with worse records than us so "best of the worst" doesn't really sum up this team either.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Both the Cardinals and Suns were much better than expected. Both teams are on the verge of greatness. Both made management changes and coaching changes that have produced very positive results. Both have made player personnel choices that have been very good and show real promise.

If you are a pessimist, all you can see is how close we were. If you are a realist, you can see how both ships have turned, and its a good thing.

 

[BC867]

They didn't "achieve" anything. But they will finish with the 11th or 12th best record overall and for a team that was expected to be the worst or 2nd worst team in the league that's not too bad. There will be at least 5 playoff teams with worse records than us so "best of the worst" doesn't really sum up this team either.

But the Suns did achieve. Even overachieved. Compared to what, not only the "experts" expected, but what Suns fans expected, too.

But . . . our league records when competing for the post-season means nothing. For that, our record in the West is all that matters. That is what the Suns brass has to prepare for.

'Funny, I am one of the long-time Suns fans who have said that, without a Championship in 45 years, we have not achieved. But, compared to expecting the worst record in the league while cleaning house for the past few years and moving forward, we did indeed achieve.

It is ironic that, with our strength in the backcourt, perhaps that pressure contributed to (I didn't say caused) losing Bledsoe and, to a lesser degree, Dragic when we needed them.

 

[Catlover]

But the Suns did achieve. Even overachieved. Compared to what, not only the "experts" expected, but what Suns fans expected, too.

But . . . our league records when competing for the post-season means nothing. For that, our record in the West is all that matters. That is what the Suns brass has to prepare for.

'Funny, I am one of the long-time Suns fans who have said that, without a Championship in 45 years, we have not achieved. But, compared to expecting the worst record in the league while cleaning house for the past few years and moving forward, we did indeed achieve.

It is ironic that, with our strength in the backcourt, perhaps that pressure contributed to (I didn't say caused) losing Bledsoe and, to a lesser degree, Dragic when we needed them.

I was following a bouncing ball. You said we overachieved and Mulli asked (mockingly, I would assume) what the had Suns achieved. In the sense he meant it, we achieved nothing but overachieving has little in common with achieving. It's not like we say "Benjamin Franklin achieved greatness in the eyes of the science world and Albert Einstein overachieved greatness". Overachieving, as you used it, simply meant that we had played beyond expectations and I'm in full agreement with you on that.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I am really thrilled about both teams, especially about the front office changes. A year ago things seems so bleak, but now, with both teams there is realistic expectation that next year will be much better than this one was.

I am sorry, I don't pay that much attention to the Coyotes. But the Diamondbacks are another story, the same story, over and over. They seem absolutely unwilling to put together enough talent to compete through injuries. They are a couple management changes behind the Suns and Cardinals.

 

[Chaplin]

But the Suns did achieve. Even overachieved. Compared to what, not only the "experts" expected, but what Suns fans expected, too.

But . . . our league records when competing for the post-season means nothing. For that, our record in the West is all that matters. That is what the Suns brass has to prepare for.

'Funny, I am one of the long-time Suns fans who have said that, without a Championship in 45 years, we have not achieved. But, compared to expecting the worst record in the league while cleaning house for the past few years and moving forward, we did indeed achieve.

It is ironic that, with our strength in the backcourt, perhaps that pressure contributed to (I didn't say caused) losing Bledsoe and, to a lesser degree, Dragic when we needed them.

They did not OVERACHIEVE! Unbelievable. Give them some credit, will you? Saying they overachieved is lessening their accomplishments.

 

[Catlover]

They did not OVERACHIEVE! Unbelievable. Give them some credit, will you? Saying they overachieved is lessening their accomplishments.

They overachieved. It means they did better than expected. The expectations may well have been unwarranted but that's irrelevant. Not acknowledging that they overachieved is lessening their accomplishments.

If you had expectations that exceeded their performance than from your perspective they would have underachieved. There are other connotations for the word but the one I referenced is pretty basic. Is it possible you're using a different definition of the word "underachieved" than some of us here?

 

[Cheesebeef]

They overachieved. It means they did better than expected. The expectations may well have been unwarranted but that's inconsequential. Not acknowledging that they overachieved is lessening their accomplishments.

If you had expectations that exceeded their performance than from your perspective they would have underachieved. There are other connotations for the word but the one I referenced is pretty basic. Is it possible you're using a different definition of the word "underachieved" than some of us here?

yeah, I don't see how someone can get mad at the idea that the team over-acheived. we were picked to finish last in the league by most pundits, lost our second best player for almost half of the season, had very little frontcourt to speak of and ended up winning 21 more games then last season. that's a huge overachievement and accomplishment.

 

[JCSunsfan]

If you had told us all in September that the Suns would win 47-49 games this year AND that some fans would be disappointed, everyone here would have laughed you off of the board.

This team is likely going to win 48 games AND have the 14, 17, and 25 picks in the draft. They will also have room for a max FA. While this team might not have made the playoffs, they have established a winning atmosphere and they have decent picks. Don't forget, we are still rebuilding and what a start to that process!

 

[Errntknght]

The Suns over achieved in another sense as well. I evaluated the stats of every team in two different ways and in both analyses the Suns came in just a tiny bit above average - worth one game over .500. Portland also over achieved in the same manner and Minnesota underachieved quite dramatically. All year long people have been saying Minny couldn't win close games and that is the kind of thing that would show them underachieving statistically - or you could calll it padding their stats against weak teams.

What would account for the Suns kind of overachieving? One thing it couldn't mean is padding their stats against weaker teams. The extreme opposite of that is playing up and down to the level of their competition. Even before I did this analysis it seemed to me that the Suns were making it a game even when they lost to the good teams and they were not whooping much of anyone. Sounds kind of like playing to the level of the competition doesn't it? Another factor, early in the year, was that teams were underestimating the Suns... that would have a similar effect, in that the good teams would take it easy against us and the lesser teams saw an opportunity for a win. More a case of the other teams playing up and down to our level rather than us doing it.

Another possible factor is that, under Hornacek, we're pretty good at winning close games. Naturally, I like that interpretation of the facts. Still my assessment is that the stats mean something - we're probably somewhere between where the stats say we are and where our record indicates we fit in. If we don't improve quite a bit next year we may well not win as many games as this year.

 

[Covert Rain]

I see what Chap is saying about fans possibly underestimating the talent of the team so expectations were possibly not fully realized. However, part of overachieving is just that....it's based on expectations. I don't think it takes ANYTHING away from what the team accomplished. However, when taking expectations into account, injuries and probably the fact they snuck up on some teams......I don't see how you can say this team didn't overachieve. IMO, they probably played above their heads for a bit this season.

 

[Catlover]

I see what Chap is saying about fans possibly underestimating the talent of the team so expectations were possibly not fully realized. However, part of overachieving is just that....it's based on expectations. I don't think it takes ANYTHING away from what the team accomplished. However, when taking expectations into account, injuries and probably the fact they snuck up on some teams......I don't see how you can say this team didn't overachieve. IMO, they probably played above their heads for a bit this season.

To me, there is only one way you can say this team didn't overachieve and you found it with your last sentence. But I don't know how a team plays over it's head for a season. Baseball yes but I just don't see it for basketball. It would take a lot of luck, it seems to me. I just think people undervalued how good some of our players (and coaches) were or were capable of becoming. I don't think Green or Markieff had a fluky season. I expect at least as much from both of them next season and I expect much more from Eric assuming he stays.

 

[Covert Rain]

To me, there is only one way you can say this team didn't overachieve and you found it with your last sentence. But I don't know how a team plays over it's head for a season. Baseball yes but I just don't see it for basketball. It would take a lot of luck, it seems to me. I just think people undervalued how good some of our players (and coaches) were or were capable of becoming. I don't think Green or Markieff had a fluky season. I expect at least as much from both of them next season and I expect much more from Eric assuming he stays.

I agree for a season it's sort of hard to say that (by the way I didn't say that). However, I see the flip side of that argument. We have seen in the NBA young teams ride a high....surprise everyone and be an upstart in the playoffs.....only to see those teams have a sophomore slump. It happens IMO.

 

[BigRedRage]

I wouldn't include the Suns in this group. For a roster predicted to be one of the worst in the NBA, they overachieved.

Yes, our expectations rose as the season progressed but, for a team with most of its talent in the backcourt, they pushed it as far as they could. With the pressure there, it is no coincidence that the key injuries have been in the backcourt.

The test will be the moves needed in the off-season to add frontcourt strength in a 50-isn't-good-enough Western Conference.

Next season's expectations will be justifiably higher. If the result is the same, it will be a painful year for the Suns and its fans.

Nor would i put a 10-6 cardinals season as "painful" regardless of playoffs