A subtle jam at Marbury?

[Joe Mama]

When the Marbury trade was made it was a lot of speculation from the media and many of us on this message board (myself included) and Amare Stoudemire was not happy playing with Marbury. Since the trade I've read several quotes from Amare and lead me to believe this is true. The other day there was a quote about Marbury not practicing with the team and leading by example. After last night's game Amare Stoudemire had this to say about Joe Johnson:

“Joe is a great ball player and I think that he has stepped up big over our last few games. He’s a great offensive player and he can lock down his opponent on defense. He has a lot of confidence now and he knows that the ball is going to come back to him now, and that is what we want more of. We want to move the ball around and find open shots.”

Some of the players like Shawn Marion seemed upset when the trade was made because they knew they were rebuilding/retooling again. Every time I see or hear from Amare Stoudemire he seems very excited. I really think he was frustrated by Marbury. I think it's understandable.

I'm not trying to gripe about Marbury. I still think he is a top-tier point guard. I do think the Phoenix Suns are moving around and playing much better offensively without him though. There is still plenty of room for improvement on their offense, and there defense still leaves quite a bit to be desired. I'll take a bit improving.

BTW apparently Shaquille O'Neal practiced with the Lakers, and he is aiming to return Monday against the Phoenix Suns. Just our luck.

Joe Mama

 

[slinslin]

We should still be able to win that one because Kobe and Malone are not playing.

They didn't look bad against Shaq before , I doubt Shaq is anywhere close to 100% when he comes back.

 

[JerkFace]

i'm starting to worry a little aboute amare. he is starting to show signs of getting to big for his britches. last year he seemed more humble and less worried about his stat line. this year he's talking alot about himself and doing silly things like banging his chest after a dunk when we are behind by 20 points (denver game). last year we heard alot about how his mom is not a good influence, hopefully she doesn't have his ear. amare is going to be a great player, but hopefully he doesn't turn into another example of why people are losing interest in the nba.

 

[slinslin]

I like the banging his chest.

It is just natural for him because he is intense and in the game.
He has always done that.

Amare has matured even more, he is a vocal leader and in my opinion says the right things in interviews.

 

[JerkFace]

Originally posted by slinslin
I like the banging his chest.

It is just natural for him because he is intense and in the game.
He has always done that.

Amare has matured even more, he is a vocal leader and in my opinion says the right things in interviews.

i hope this is the case. i just hope he has the right people surrounding him.

 

[elindholm]

this year he's talking alot about himself and doing silly things like banging his chest after a dunk when we are behind by 20 points (denver game).

Actually the Suns were behind by 30 points. Had it been only 20, the chest-banging would have made a lot more sense.

 

[Joe Mama]

I also did not like that chest banging. I'm not a big fan of these little celebrations after a slamdunk anyways, but that was ridiculous when the Suns were down by 30 points. I just chalk it up to immaturity though. Remember that he is still a young player.

I love the highflying slamdunks, but I would much rather see a player just turn around and run back on defense than celebrate afterwards.

Joe Mama

 

[slinslin]

That's a matter of taste.

Even Tim Duncan reacts when he a great dunk, Amare just happens to have them much more often.

It would look stupid if Amare has a great dunk and doesn't react. To me that only shows that he is still fired up and not about to lay down to the competition.

 

[fordronken]

First, I like Amare getting excited. It's fun. It's entertainment. And secondly, I really do think this Suns team is making a serious effort to play better team basketball. That's one of the benefits of not having a "superstar" point guard; the team attacks you as a team. I think it can be more effective, if done properly, than having someone who the defense knows is going to initiate everything. Don't get me wrong, I love Stephon Marbury, but if this team keeps maturing and playing well together, it could improve all the young guys on our team a lot. This is the first time many of them have been playing with someone who doesn't just get them wide open shots. Now they all are responsible for getting each other shots and that's kind of nice.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by slinslin
That's a matter of taste.

Even Tim Duncan reacts when he a great dunk, Amare just happens to have them much more often.

It would look stupid if Amare has a great dunk and doesn't react. To me that only shows that he is still fired up and not about to lay down to the competition.

I agree. I think he does it to fire up his teammates. This team get pretty downcast when things aren't going well and Amare's demonstration may help. I think he has to be careful of not just firing up the other guys.

 

[Chaz]

I think it is not so subtle for those who are paying attention. I like Steph but he did not fit with Amare and Joe. Sometimes Steph just bails out on the offense and takes over, which he has the ability to do. Stoudemire, Johnson, and to a lesser extent Marion can create their own shots and setup teammates.

Something wasn't right and it feels a lot better now, for the first time this season.

Prior to the last two games, the Suns last win was against the Clippers and Steph scored 40. It was a great win and a great performance by Steph. I think the team has finally just adjusted to life with out Starbury. It just took a little while to get everyone in shape and playing their roles. I don't think the problems were specifically Steph or Penny, but an overall chemistry issue.

As long as Amare is being a good sport and playing with class, a little chest bumping is fine as long as the emotion don't take over and affect his game.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Originally posted by SirChaz
Something wasn't right and it feels a lot better now, for the first time this season.

.

I think Steph's game is better suited to the old NBA--before zone defenses. When he can play one on one, and beat his man, or pass to an open man out of the double team--thats when he is effective.

Stephs game is not well suited to zone defenses. I think if we were to go back and look, we would find that he had his best nights when the opposition played man to man defense. We were just terrible against the zone when we had Steph.

This new passing style seems to be much more productive against the zone.

Its going to be interesting to see how well the Knicks do against the zone. The Knicks have better shooters, so that should help.

But isn't it interesting how well these Suns shoot when they move the ball and get good shots.

 

[Chaz]

Originally posted by JCSunsfan
I think Steph's game is better suited to the old NBA--before zone defenses. When he can play one on one, and beat his man, or pass to an open man out of the double team--thats when he is effective.

Stephs game is not well suited to zone defenses. I think if we were to go back and look, we would find that he had his best nights when the opposition played man to man defense. We were just terrible against the zone when we had Steph.

This new passing style seems to be much more productive against the zone.

Its going to be interesting to see how well the Knicks do against the zone. The Knicks have better shooters, so that should help.

But isn't it interesting how well these Suns shoot when they move the ball and get good shots.

Absolutely, the constant cutting and passing is better suited to our personel. NY has good jump shooters and they just move to an open space and wait for Steph to pass to them. If NY is not hitting jumpers a particular night then they will have trouble against the zone also.

JJ was always a better shooter coming off screens or off the dribble.

 

[dyle_ph1]

“Joe is a great ball player and I think that he has stepped up big over our last few games. He’s a great offensive player and he can lock down his opponent on defense. He has a lot of confidence now and he knows that the ball is going to come back to him now, and that is what we want more of. We want to move the ball around and find open shots.”

Didn't Marbury actually make a conscious effor this year to share the ball more? In fact, in some games, he shared the ball too much when he should have just put his head down and take over the ball game. I could understand Amare's frustration on not getting the ball consistently but if you look at it in Marbury's point of view, good or not, Amare is still a second year player to him and does have a lot to learn until he becomes the franchise player.

Amare is a great player but sometimes, during the Marbury era, the Suns might have been too eager to make him "the man". It works out great now for Amare since he definitely is "the man" and hopefully he will continue to work to live up to that billing.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Actually if I have a complaint about Stoudemire right now is that he seems to think he is a point guard on the break.

It is clear he loves having the ball in his hands. He has also started taking guys off the dribble a lot more.

 

[dyle_ph1]

Originally posted by Chris_Sanders
Actually if I have a complaint about Stoudemire right now is that he seems to think he is a point guard on the break.

It is clear he loves having the ball in his hands. He has also started taking guys off the dribble a lot more.

As long as he doens't do it all the time, then it's not a big deal for me. Heck, Shaq leads the break once in a while and it entertains the crowd

It's a good sign that Amare wants to have the ball in his hands. As long as he learns how to pass out of double teams more effectively, then he'd be close to being the perfect power forward. He's young and it'll come in time though. If Malone is really the person he patterns his game after, then I have no doubt that's coming next in his to do list.

 

[Chaplin]

Heck, I don't care what Amare does, as long as it's working. That's the trick.

But I must say I think I am very close to officially changing my mind about the trade. Part of that is Amare, but most of it, IMO, is the play of Shawn Marion and Joe Johnson. I'm still not convinced of JJ's confidence level, but since the trade, JJ has played the best basketball of his career.

And for some reason, that just puts a smile on my face. AND if it continues, unless Kobe really wants to be in Phoenix, I certainly wouldn't have any problem with a consistent Joe Johnson as the starting SG for the Phoenix Suns for a LONG time.

 

[fordronken]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Heck, I don't care what Amare does, as long as it's working. That's the trick.

But I must say I think I am very close to officially changing my mind about the trade. Part of that is Amare, but most of it, IMO, is the play of Shawn Marion and Joe Johnson. I'm still not convinced of JJ's confidence level, but since the trade, JJ has played the best basketball of his career.

And for some reason, that just puts a smile on my face. AND if it continues, unless Kobe really wants to be in Phoenix, I certainly wouldn't have any problem with a consistent Joe Johnson as the starting SG for the Phoenix Suns for a LONG time.

Hey, I'll take anybody if they end up averaging 20 and 7 from the two guard spot and shoot close to fifty percent.

 

[SunsTzu]

Originally posted by slinslin
I like the banging his chest.

It is just natural for him because he is intense and in the game.
He has always done that.

Amare has matured even more, he is a vocal leader and in my opinion says the right things in interviews.

I agree. He had a ton of energy for the Nugs game, he wasn't given much time in the Sac game and hasn't been able to play serious competion for over a month.

Also they asked him about his energetic play after the game even though they were down so much by the time he got back in. He basically said he plays the same way no matter what. He doesn't care what the score is and will always give 110%.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Heck, I don't care what Amare does, as long as it's working. That's the trick.

But I must say I think I am very close to officially changing my mind about the trade. Part of that is Amare, but most of it, IMO, is the play of Shawn Marion and Joe Johnson. I'm still not convinced of JJ's confidence level, but since the trade, JJ has played the best basketball of his career.

And for some reason, that just puts a smile on my face. AND if it continues, unless Kobe really wants to be in Phoenix, I certainly wouldn't have any problem with a consistent Joe Johnson as the starting SG for the Phoenix Suns for a LONG time.

I have always believed that JJ would become a very good player, but I was certainly wondering about whether it would be in this decade.

If he had stayed in school, he would be a rookie. Counting Boston, he has had three coaches, he has played 3 or 4 positions, and had a former all star breathing down his neck trying to take his job. It would be a tough environment for a really mature guy and he is still mostly a kid.

BUT, it was not an accident JJ was the first shooting guard taken in the 2001 draft. Go back and look at his writeups - he was considered to be a great offensive threat both inside and outside. Ironically, all the reports questioned his defense, but for most of the past two years that is what gave him his minutes.

Baring injury, I have always felt he was the Suns SG of the future. Let's hope the future is now.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

After the trade, Marion is much much mroe vocal as well. I think loosing the 2 loudest captains forced him into the role, but he has seemed to embrace for now.

He is also attacking the hoop a lot more. I think he was always too content with allowing Marbury to create off the dribble, and settling for spot up shots. Even though they were all open, he isn't a very good jump shooter. Now that the ball is forced to continually move around, he is attacking a lot more.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
After the trade, Marion is much much mroe vocal as well. I think loosing the 2 loudest captains forced him into the role, but he has seemed to embrace for now.

He is also attacking the hoop a lot more. I think he was always too content with allowing Marbury to create off the dribble, and settling for spot up shots. Even though they were all open, he isn't a very good jump shooter. Now that the ball is forced to continually move around, he is attacking a lot more.

Marion played one of his better games against Portland on Sunday. 9-21 from the field, 2-3 for 3 and had 16 rebounds to lead the Suns to a 9 rebound advantage against the tall Blazers.

Defensively, Wallace only shot 6-17 (although it did include 4 of 5 for 3) and most of those were in the first half.

 

[SunsTzu]

Originally posted by George O'Brien


Defensively, Wallace only shot 6-17 (although it did include 4 of 5 for 3) and most of those were in the first half.

When the Blazers started to sink perimiter shots was when the Suns had their weakest defenders in and were playing zone. I think Marion did a great job on Wallace when we went to man defense.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by SunsTzu
When the Blazers started to sink perimiter shots was when the Suns had their weakest defenders in and were playing zone. I think Marion did a great job on Wallace when we went to man defense.

I listened to radio, so it was hard for me to tell. Thank you for the update.

 

[Djaughe]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
Some of the players like Shawn Marion seemed upset when the trade was made because they knew they were rebuilding/retooling again. Every time I see or hear from Amare Stoudemire he seems very excited. I really think he was frustrated by Marbury. I think it's understandable.

BTW apparently Shaquille O'Neal practiced with the Lakers, and he is aiming to return Monday against the Phoenix Suns. Just our luck.

Joe Mama

A. Stoudemire better get short term memory and let go about whatever issue he had about S. Marbury.