A Tale of Two Drafts

Harry

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At the end of Day One it was safe to say that no team drafted significantly better than the Cardinals; then came Day Two. You’d better get ready to see a large number of draft summaries all grading the Cardinals draft a “C” or even a “D.” Just when I was starting to think that maybe I was wrong about Rod Graves, he returned to form and made it clear he just doesn’t get it.

The problems started with the selection of Early Doucet – a player I had lauded just prior to the draft. Clearly he could be seen as the Best Player Available, but how many receivers can you have running a short field? The safeties will come up further inhibiting the running game. Frequently tipped balls will probably lead to more interceptions. The strategy of going to a 3-wide receiver set goes away, when the receivers as so similar in abilities. Certainly there is merit in taking the best player on the board. However, players must not only be evaluated for talent; they must also be evaluated for fit. Injury or a trade could make Doucet a valuable player. I expect him to have a long career with someone. I just don’t see how he makes this offense significantly better.

The same could be said for the defensive line where the Cards now have enough players to fill 3 lines; maybe 4 lines if they play a 3-4.

In an era when team speed is sought by everyone else, the Cards seem intent on getting slower. I understand the principle of contrarianism, but I doubt it will prove effective in this scenario. Beyond their first round pick, they team did not select one player with first class speed.

The Cards needed to be more effective as a running team, but selected only a marginal back and a lineman who will likely be pressed to make the practice squad. In fact, the offense as a whole looks no better than last year.

Consider this: aside from corner, which position is clearly stronger now that the draft is complete. Doucet has better hands than Johnson (doesn’t everyone), but I’m not confident the passing game is better. Hightower may be a serviceable back, but does the running game figure to be improved.

The Cards will face a tougher schedule next season. A good draft was needed to avoid sliding backward. Sadly, this is not the draft that will move the team forward.
 

WildBB

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The Cards will face a tougher schedule next season. A good draft was needed to avoid sliding backward. Sadly, this is not the draft that will move the team forward.


Respectfuly Disagree. And it's too early to make this overblown statement IMO.
 

Pariah

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All three of our WRs (Fitz, Boldin and Doucet) are not noticibly slower than most safetys they'll face. While it would have been nice to get a guy who will stretch the field, I don't think it'll be a problem.

How well did Johnson "stretch the field" for them? How often have we asked ourselves "gosh, if only Boldin and Fitz could get some separation"? Nearly never.

Doucet is an excellent football player and will help more than a 4th or 5th round burner would.
 

40yearfan

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There was only 3 teams with a higher draft rating and the Falcons had the same as us.

What happened to the post I was quoting?
 

Pariah

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There was only 3 teams with a higher draft rating and the Falcons had the same as us.

What happened to the post I was quoting?
Where'd you find that?

I suspect the Chefs had the highest? They KILLED the first day. I was talking to a chiefs-fan friend of mine on day one and after thye first he said something about being a 6-win team next year...I laughed at him and said something to the effect of "I know what a six-win team looks like, and the chiefs aren't it." Then they picked Flowers and I thought I might have to change my mind. They got at least 3 instant-starters and positive contributers.
 

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The notion that you need a burner to run a good offense is ridiculous..

Fitzgerald does enough on jump balls downfield, that the corners and safeties still need to respect his ability to get downfield.. if Larry gets downfield, and the corner isnt in ideal postion, he's gonna out jump him and make the catch..

Therefore i disagree that defenses can just come up closer to the LOS because we dont have a speed WR..

Would have been nice to get a homerun RB, but it wasnt available..

There were only a few HR backs in the draft, and outside of McFadden, all of them have other issues..
 

PJ1

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Maybe not as down as you are but totally agree we needed to add speed to our offense and did not. Either in the draft or free agency and we whiffed on both.
 

joeshmo

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I am not ready to say it was a crap draft yet or that it will push us backwards. Just not there yet. Although I will say and agree with you whole heartedly that besides our CB we drafted we have a severely lacking draft in the speed department.
 

Duckjake

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All three of our WRs (Fitz, Boldin and Doucet) are not noticibly slower than most safetys they'll face. While it would have been nice to get a guy who will stretch the field, I don't think it'll be a problem.

How well did Johnson "stretch the field" for them? How often have we asked ourselves "gosh, if only Boldin and Fitz could get some separation"? Nearly never.

Doucet is an excellent football player and will help more than a 4th or 5th round burner would.


I ask that question every single game. Though I usually use a term slightly stronger than gosh.
 

SuperSpck

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The Cards will face a tougher schedule next season. A good draft was needed to avoid sliding backward. Sadly, this is not the draft that will move the team forward.

That's a melodramatic statement.
 

Redrage

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As the Cards were drafting for depth, I didn't see this draft as a big disappointment. I don't know that a single draft pick would have started on this team where we were drafting.

To speak specifically to the Doucett pick, apart from Caldwell (I believe he was still on the board) there wasn't a bevey of talented speed receivers left when we picked in the third. I liked Doucett, thought we should pick him, and when our pick came up I was sure that we would pick him. At that point he was the BPA by my estimation (and apparently by the scouting staff and by Kiper as well).

My brother made the point today that you often see other teams attempt to fix a need by saturating it with draft picks in a single draft. He believed that the Cards suffered from not using the approach. that's what we saw today at DE. One 3-4 or 4-3 DE and two possible DE/ 3-4 OLBs. Some have complained about the log jam at that position, but I'm confident that we'll see real improvement as marginal players are weeded out. Competition will be fierce and the whole team will benefit.

The Hightower pick: in a draft with a of depth we should still remember that there was a glut of 3rd and 4th tier backs, not 1st and 2nd. By passing on Jamal Charles we probably let the equivalent of Adrain Peterson slip away. By that I mean the Bear's Adrian, not the Vikings. The homer in me wanted Corey Boyd, he went in round 7. The dratnik in me wanted Ray Rice, who went to the Raven's in round 2. What we got was a servicable back who will get us that 6 inches when we need it. Still, he may surprise. Just ad Shipp surprised when he was signed as an UDFA. Looking back, would anyone be disappointed today if we had dratfed Marcell in round 5? No, we would recognize the value. I have a hunch that he'll be better than Marcell over the long haul. I saw lateral moves in his highlights that I've never seen from Marcell (or from McFadden this year too). I'm hopeful, as I should be on draft day.
 

DaisyCutter

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I ask that question every single game. Though I usually use a term slightly stronger than gosh.


Yup. Without a doubt.

Hightower was a terrible pick. J.J. goes into camp without any competition (isn't that what we were looking for?). I actually liked the first three rounds--even the Doucet pick because it was such a best available player choice.

We certainly brought competition to the DE position, but it's hard to shake the feeling that some of those guys could have been acquired following the 7th round.
 

perivolaki

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Consider this: aside from corner, which position is clearly stronger now that the draft is complete. Doucet has better hands than Johnson (doesn’t everyone), but I’m not confident the passing game is better. Hightower may be a serviceable back, but does the running game figure to be improved.

Not a position really but I think special teams should be improved. Campbell has blocked kicks with his long arms and DRC has blocked punts. Iwebema has blocked several kicks. I think Hightower and Harrington can be very effective special teams players. We don't often think about it but special teams is 1/3 of the game and has burned us several times.

Thats one nice thing about switching to the 3-4, it gives a team with more run and chase type guys. You can put guys like Iwebema and Harrington in the line on punts because they have some size but they still have the ability to chase and tackle vs. a guy who is 300 lbs and plays offensive line.
 
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red desert

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I am not ready to say it was a crap draft yet or that it will push us backwards. Just not there yet. Although I will say and agree with you whole heartedly that besides our CB we drafted we have a severely lacking draft in the speed department.

Maybe Wiz just doesn't know how to deal with/fit "speed" on a football team.
 

Skkorpion

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Thanks for all the pre draft, live and post draft opinions and work, Harry.

I too wish we had more speed on offense at the skill positions. Until we can truly stretch the field deep and have a RB who can break long runs, we will not be as good offensively as most of us would wish.

Nevertheless, I think and hope this draft will prove to have improved our defense. Certainly, Whisenhunt deserves the chance to build the team his way.
 

Renz

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At the end of Day One it was safe to say that no team drafted significantly better than the Cardinals; then came Day Two. You’d better get ready to see a large number of draft summaries all grading the Cardinals draft a “C” or even a “D.” Just when I was starting to think that maybe I was wrong about Rod Graves, he returned to form and made it clear he just doesn’t get it.

Grading drafts this early is such a waste of time. How many pundits gave this draft an A or a B?

2005

Antrel Rolle DB Miami (FL)
JJ. Arrington RB California
Eric Green DB Virginia Tech
Darryl Blackstock LB Virginia
Elton Brown G Virginia
Lance Mitchell LB Oklahoma
LeRon McCoy WR Indiana (Pa.)

How would that draft grade out now?
 

az jam

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How can an experienced guy like you Harry actually give a grade to a draft at this time??? Ridiculous. You grade a draft 3 years later. I agree with Renz what a waste of time. Enough said.
 

vinnymac

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IMO, the cardinals address their weakness on the team. That is defensive linemen. I give them an A for addressing the need. To me if Travis LaBoy is the biggest offseason move for the cardinals, then they are in a lot of trouble. Then again it is a wait and see mode. So until August, happy golfing & fishing to all.
 

Totally_Red

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Not a position really but I think special teams should be improved. Campbell has blocked kicks with his long arms and DRC has blocked punts. Iwebema has blocked several kicks. I think Hightower and Harrington can be very effective special teams players. We don't often think about it but special teams is 1/3 of the game and has burned us several times.

Thats one nice thing about switching to the 3-4, it gives a team with more run and chase type guys. You can put guys like Iwebema and Harrington in the line on punts because they have some size but they still have the ability to chase and tackle vs. a guy who is 300 lbs and plays offensive line.

Living here in the Midwest I'm familiar with the Rams and their speed merchants and so-called "finesse" offense. The down side of that is their special teams were horrible for a long,long time despite having one of the best special teams coaches in the business in Bobby April.

I really think special teams, especially the coverage units, is where we will see the biggest improvement year over year. Whis mentioned that Tim Hightower, probably the best player on the Richmond team, played on their special teams units. Given Marcel Shipp's well-publicized breakdowns on special teams, I'm looking forward to seeing what TH brings to the units.
Add in Iwebana and Harrington and Stewart, and we have some good special teams contributors on board.
 

cardsfanmd

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Our biggest F-up is still Graves blowing the FA period and missing out on Faneca because he got owned by Eugene Parker and was too stubborn to just admit defeat early. I know I would feel much better about our offense had we added Big Red to the Big Red.
 
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Harry

Harry

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Of course grading a draft is a guessing game as is doing a mock draft. It's called fun, although it's admittedly more fun when you like the draft results. Judging from the fact that virtually every news source and correspondent did the same, I don't feel too concerned about those who view it as a waste of time. BTW, I will readily admit that most sources liked the picks more than me, so it will be interesting to see who is right.
 

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Our biggest F-up is still Graves blowing the FA period and missing out on Faneca because he got owned by Eugene Parker and was too stubborn to just admit defeat early. I know I would feel much better about our offense had we added Big Red to the Big Red.

Wrong, Faneca cost way too much money. If we had signed him, we'd have about 2 million in cap space to sign all the players we just drafted, oh yeah, and somehow work out a deal to try to keep Q. We didn't need to sign Faneca. He was never going to be a Cardinal. Way too expensive IMO.
 

Crazy Canuck

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Steve Kiem's and his scouts evaluation of talent and setting up the Cards board verse our resident self-proclaimed experts: I know with whom I stand.
 

slanidrac16

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Let's face it . No matter what the Cards did there were going to be guys that loved , liked it, was disapponted in it and hated it.

If we reach for a player many would say we are stupid.
If we take the BPA many would say it doesn't fir a need.
If we take a player for need many would could have drafted him later.

Here's my view. The Cardinal brass recognized the defense was this teams biggest problem. They added a top rated CB, a DE that is the size of a boeing 727 with a wingspan to match. If the Cards staff can coach these 2 guys up a tad, this defense will be much better which will equal more wins.

We added a quality wr that can step in as a #2 in an emergency.
We added a bunch of depth and COMPETITION to a very thin defense.

Bottom line, we will not know how we did for a while. I'm pretty sure New England didn't start collecting ticker tape for the parade when the name "Tom Brady" was announced.

Hats off to Graves, the scouting dept and the coaching staff to have the balls enough to stick to what they beleive in.
 

DaisyCutter

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Steve Kiem's and his scouts evaluation of talent and setting up the Cards board verse our resident self-proclaimed experts: I know with whom I stand.


Yes, go with the people who identified J.J. Arrington and Daryl Blackstock and Brandon Johnson and Jon Lewis and Todd Watkins and Lance Mitchell and LeRon McCoy and Alex Stepanovich and Nick Leckey and John Navarre and Kenny King.

That brush paints both ways.
 

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