Adequate performance isn't enough vs. Spurs

azdad1978

Championship!!!!
Joined
Dec 8, 2002
Posts
14,982
Reaction score
50
Location
ordinance 2257
Paola Boivin
The Arizona Republic
May. 23, 2005 12:00 AM

Bye bye haters.

The tattooed words meander down Steven Hunter's right arm, and he wears this primal scream like a badge of honor. It's psychological retribution for the impossible expectations that accompany superhuman height and the private frustration of a player trying to find his place on the basketball court of public opinion.

He's high on himself.



He's down on himself.

He wants more minutes.

He wants fewer mistakes.

Sunday afternoon in Game 1 of the Western Conference finals, the Suns needed Hunter in a big way. The San Antonio Spurs would throw two near-7-footers on the floor, which would present limitations for what Suns defenders Amaré Stoudemire and Shawn Marion could do. Enter Hunter, who played 30 minutes for only the second time this season. He responded with nine points and eight rebounds and offered relief for the Suns' big men, which, at 6-10 and 6-7, respectively, is a relative term.

Much like Hunter's four-year career, his effort in the 121-114 loss was, well, adequate. He battled for rebounds. He drew fouls. He made Tim Duncan work for many of his shots. In the course of the regular season, this would be a positive.

But this isn't the regular season.

It's the Western Conference finals.

The Suns are fighting for their postseason lives.

They'll need more from Hunter in Game 2, especially if Joe Johnson remains sidelined. This is not hating. This is simply what's necessary if the Suns hope to go to San Antonio with a split.

Understand that Suns coaches and players were nothing but positive about Hunter's efforts after the game. Coach Mike D'Antoni said he thought Hunter "was doing a good job" and Stoudemire said "he did what it takes."

But anyone who sat near the Suns bench Sunday could hear the multiple cries by coaches telling Hunter to get in the right position or asking him to defend Duncan differently.

At times he played, well, distractedly.

The cold, hard truth is that there is little margin for error when you're playing the Spurs. Hunter found that out firsthand when he chose to front Duncan during a play that resulted in a big, three-point basket for San Antonio guard Brent Barry, who sank another one 37 seconds later. A two-point lead became an eight-point lead with less than four minutes remaining in the game.

"We really didn't want to front him (Duncan) that much because we knew every time we'd front they'd drive baseline and he just seals and boxes you out," Suns assistant coach Marc Iavaroni said. "He makes you come off a three-point shooter and block the layup and that's what happened on the three-pointer by Barry. . . . You're kind of trained like a dog to get back into the paint."

Listen, defending one of the game's greatest players is no easy task. Ideally, trying to stop him one-on-one is best, because as soon as you double-team, Duncan, a deft passer, finds an open teammate and it's over.

He's still dominating, bum ankle and all.

"His ankle," Hunter said, "is fine."

Indeed. We can agree Hunter's job is difficult.

But these are the Spurs, and the Suns trail 1-0, and the script suddenly changes. During the regular season, whenever the reserves came off the bench, all fans asked was for them to keep the team afloat until the starters returned.

Now the Suns need players such as Hunter to make something happen. There's no such thing as treading water against the Spurs, because they're a group of circling sharks who know the smell of blood.

"It's going to come down to how much heart we have and how hard we can play (for) 48 minutes," D'Antoni said.

The coach was talking about all his players but it's a message Hunter should embrace. At 7-feet, 240 pounds, he is agile and promising. He should look at Game 1 as a solid effort on which he can build.

Because solid efforts aren't enough anymore.

Not when you're playing the Spurs.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/columns/articles/0523boivin0523.html
 

jibikao

Registered User
Joined
Dec 3, 2004
Posts
3,390
Reaction score
0
Hunter was decent for a while but his offense was also a downfall when he replaces Marion/Q (not that we got a lot of them but...you get the idea. lol).

Hunter can only score inside but when he is in the game with Amare, that's too many people inside the lane. It's so packed.

Amare's outside shooting was excellent. Maybe when Hunter is in the game, Amare steps out a bit to draw the defender out a bit... since Hunter can't shoot at all and there's no way Spurs is going to pay much attention to him.


Man... I wonder what kind of adjustments we need to make to win Game 2. I think we can take it if we are full of energy. This team has proven us wrong so many times!!!!
 

az1965

Love Games!
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Posts
14,760
Reaction score
0
Location
Austin, TX
jibikao said:
Man... I wonder what kind of adjustments we need to make to win Game 2. I think we can take it if we are full of energy. This team has proven us wrong so many times!!!!
1. Q needs to come out of his offensive slump.
2. Marion needs to counter solid defense by Bowen.
3. Good defense all four quarters. No open 3 pointers and clear drives to baskets. Foul hard when Parker and Ginobili drive. Foul Duncan and put him on the line. Spurs are not very good FT shooting team like Dallas.
4. Rebounding and hustle! We were pretty even game 1 but still gave up too many offensive rebounds some of which resulted in 3 pointers.
5. Fast break points! Need to dominate in this category. This is a major part of our successful season.
6. Believe! Must believe we are the best team in the league and can beat any team including Spurs. Conversely, Spurs are beatable!
 

Chaplin

Better off silent
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
46,462
Reaction score
16,990
Location
Round Rock, TX
I'm sorry, but this is just a horrible, horrible article. I can't believe she is putting blame on Hunter. It's unbelievable!
 

az1965

Love Games!
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Posts
14,760
Reaction score
0
Location
Austin, TX
She is a bad writer and should not be doing sports. I usually don't read her articles.
 

Chaz

observationist
Joined
Mar 11, 2003
Posts
11,327
Reaction score
7
Location
Wandering the Universe
Chaplin said:
I'm sorry, but this is just a horrible, horrible article. I can't believe she is putting blame on Hunter. It's unbelievable!


She is not putting the blame on Hunter. She is putting expectations on Hunter.

She is say he is just the player we need to step up when it counts the most.

With the team short handed he has the talent to be the hero.
 

Chaz

observationist
Joined
Mar 11, 2003
Posts
11,327
Reaction score
7
Location
Wandering the Universe
jibikao said:
Hunter was decent for a while but his offense was also a downfall when he replaces Marion/Q (not that we got a lot of them but...you get the idea. lol).

Hunter can only score inside but when he is in the game with Amare, that's too many people inside the lane. It's so packed.

Amare's outside shooting was excellent. Maybe when Hunter is in the game, Amare steps out a bit to draw the defender out a bit... since Hunter can't shoot at all and there's no way Spurs is going to pay much attention to him.


Man... I wonder what kind of adjustments we need to make to win Game 2. I think we can take it if we are full of energy. This team has proven us wrong so many times!!!!


I think Huner does a great job of cutting to the basket and finishing, catching the ball has been a problem however. I think Hunter fits very nicely into the Suns system when he plays well.
 

Chaplin

Better off silent
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
46,462
Reaction score
16,990
Location
Round Rock, TX
SirChaz said:
She is not putting the blame on Hunter. She is putting expectations on Hunter.

She is say he is just the player we need to step up when it counts the most.

With the team short handed he has the talent to be the hero.

He has the talent to be the hero? Are you kidding me? There's no question he can be a good player and can help us. But this is still Steven Hunter we're talking about. He had a terrific game, and she slammed him for not having a better one. And with really no evidence to support that he is capable of a much better game.
 

elindholm

edited for content
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
27,541
Reaction score
9,821
Location
L.A. area
He had a terrific game, and she slammed him for not having a better one. And with really no evidence to support that he is capable of a much better game.

I'm with Chaplin on this one. It is unfair and unrealistic to say that the Suns' chances depend on Hunter playing even better than he did in Game 1.
 

jibikao

Registered User
Joined
Dec 3, 2004
Posts
3,390
Reaction score
0
I agree. I don't think she is trashing Hunter. She is right. Without JJ, Hunter is our biggest guy on the court. If he can't contribute offensively, he has to at least counter Duncan offensively and grab as many rebounds as he can to cut down the easy baskets.

We can't allow double team on Duncan so Hunter has to guard him one-on-one just like how we beat Wolves when he guards KG one-on-one. Parker and Manu are too good of slashers when our defense is scrambled.

This is our only decent defensive strategy in my opinion. We are just not a very good defensive team and our defense rotation certainly isn't good enough to allow us to double team. Sure, you don't let Duncan score but Barry bury us with 2 long 3pt. Do the math: 4pts from Duncan or 6pts from Barry? This has happened so many times in the 4th quarter now.

I know Duncan has been hitting his FT but we just have to keep fouling him.


I don't think Spurs would ever allow us to have fast break games. I mean we only scored 6pts in Game 1. Geeze. They are so determined to get rid of our fast break game but we still managed to score 114 pts in half court set. We CAN score but we just need to step up defensively.

We WERE right there the whole game until Barry went wild and then we all got frustrated 'cause we were down 10pt with only about 5mins left.
 

fordronken

Registered User
Joined
Oct 17, 2002
Posts
3,806
Reaction score
0
Location
Los Angeles area
If Bowen was on Marion and Mohammed was on Stoudemire, who did Duncan guard? Q? Jim Jackson? For some reason I don't remember seing that mismatch on every single possesion, but there must have been one. Why wasn't that player going to the basket every time, or being left open for three?

Also, is Duncan really one of the league's best defender's when his team repeatedly takes him off of the other team's better scoring options?
 

jibikao

Registered User
Joined
Dec 3, 2004
Posts
3,390
Reaction score
0
fordronken said:
If Bowen was on Marion and Mohammed was on Stoudemire, who did Duncan guard? Q? Jim Jackson? For some reason I don't remember seing that mismatch on every single possesion, but there must have been one. Why wasn't that player going to the basket every time, or being left open for three?

That's a good point. I think part of Suns' offense advantage/disadvantage is that we depend on Nash's creation on almost any single possession. Nash is already good enough to run the half court offense (many said he can't) but when Spurs double team Nash or lock down on Marion, Q and Jim Jackson should have more room.

Well, Q did attemtp 5 3pt and only made one and Marion hits 1/6... in that case, we might as well let Nash shoot since he hits about 54% in game 1.
 

Chaplin

Better off silent
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
46,462
Reaction score
16,990
Location
Round Rock, TX
jibikao said:
I agree. I don't think she is trashing Hunter. She is right. Without JJ, Hunter is our biggest guy on the court. If he can't contribute offensively, he has to at least counter Duncan offensively and grab as many rebounds as he can to cut down the easy baskets.

And again, nobody is actually answering THIS question... What makes you think right now, in 2005, that Steven Hunter can suddenly provide a big offensive spark? He didn't show it in the regular season, he's not going to show it in the playoffs. You want a guy that needs to play better? How about Q and Barbosa. Those two need to play better a LOT more than Steven Hunter. If we can get hte same game from him that we got last night every night, then we should feel fortunate.
 

fordronken

Registered User
Joined
Oct 17, 2002
Posts
3,806
Reaction score
0
Location
Los Angeles area
Chaplin said:
And again, nobody is actually answering THIS question... What makes you think right now, in 2005, that Steven Hunter can suddenly provide a big offensive spark? He didn't show it in the regular season, he's not going to show it in the playoffs. You want a guy that needs to play better? How about Q and Barbosa. Those two need to play better a LOT more than Steven Hunter. If we can get hte same game from him that we got last night every night, then we should feel fortunate.

Again, as poorly as a lot of our guys played on offense, that should have been plenty of points to beat the Spurs. We lost that game on defense, rebounding and mental errors. I expect a much sharper game 2 and a six point victory.
 

Chaplin

Better off silent
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
46,462
Reaction score
16,990
Location
Round Rock, TX
fordronken said:
Again, as poorly as a lot of our guys played on offense, that should have been plenty of points to beat the Spurs. We lost that game on defense, rebounding and mental errors. I expect a much sharper game 2 and a six point victory.

What does that have to do with the topic at hand?
 

arthurracoon

The Cardinal Smiles
Joined
Dec 6, 2002
Posts
16,534
Reaction score
0
Location
Nashville
Chaplin said:
What does that have to do with the topic at hand?

An adequate defensive preformance against most teams isnt going to be enough against the Spurs?
 

Chaplin

Better off silent
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
46,462
Reaction score
16,990
Location
Round Rock, TX
arthurracoon said:
An adequate defensive preformance against most teams isnt going to be enough against the Spurs?

Did you read the thread Arthur? The whole topic is about whether Hunter should have played better. Given his inadequacies, I think he played great.
 

arthurracoon

The Cardinal Smiles
Joined
Dec 6, 2002
Posts
16,534
Reaction score
0
Location
Nashville
Chaplin said:
Did you read the thread Arthur? The whole topic is about whether Hunter should have played better. Given his inadequacies, I think he played great.

:thud:

oh...yeah...the rest of the thread...

ummmm...no, can't say that I did...

that would explain it...

:raccoon:
 

Joe Mama

Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
9,501
Reaction score
964
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Chaplin said:
Did you read the thread Arthur? The whole topic is about whether Hunter should have played better. Given his inadequacies, I think he played great.

it seems like you might be getting a little defensive about the article. She wasn't overly critical of Hunter. She didn't say he had a terrible game. She said that in order to win without JJ he's going to need to be even better.

Of course there's another article that talked about how good Hunter played.

http://popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gameflow.cgi?date=20050522&game=SASPHO

I usually don't like +/- numbers, but the Phoenix Suns ran such a short rotation that these are pretty easy to look at and decipher. With Stephen Hunter in the game the Phoenix Suns were -2 yesterday. however when Nash and Hunter were in the game together they were +8. With Nash and without Hunter they were +4. I think it's just a huge mistake and common sense that you don't want Hunter in the game without Nash.

Barbosa was -13 in just 12 minutes of play. That's where Joe Johnson's absence just kills them.
 

DeAnna

Just A Face in The Crowd
Joined
Jun 13, 2002
Posts
7,284
Reaction score
769
Location
Goodyear, AZ
Chaplin said:
Did you read the thread Arthur? The whole topic is about whether Hunter should have played better. Given his inadequacies, I think he played great.

Isn't that an oxymoron? If he has 'inadequacies' why do you think he played 'great'?

The writer apparently feels he CAN play better.
 

Chaz

observationist
Joined
Mar 11, 2003
Posts
11,327
Reaction score
7
Location
Wandering the Universe
Nobody is saying we expect Hunter to win the series for us.

Just don't lose it with the turnovers and defensive mistakes.

I thought he had a pretty good game. For 30min played in the WCF it wasn't good enough. For that matter Marion and Q weren't good enough so he has company.

Why can't we expect more from him? I think we need to know if he will step up and play smart, consistant basketball or if he will fold.
 

AZZenny

Registered User
Joined
Feb 18, 2003
Posts
9,235
Reaction score
2
Location
Cave Creek
Sorry, if she's not openly picking on him, it is a very 'backhanded compliment,' and passive-aggressive to boot.

"I know you think anyone who has overly high expectations and finds you disappointing is a 'hater,' Steven, but I just want you to know I thought you did ...um...probably as well as could be realistically expected (sigh!) although given your size and all, I would hope for more. I'm sure if you just buckle down" (she added brightly) "and try harder next time, you can do better. I'm not a hater, Steven, just consider this helpful advice from a friend."
You must be registered for see images



One thing she just touched on bears mention - he's only played 30 minutes once all season: Much as I do like Coach D'A, one of my private criticisms of him all season has been his seeming refusal to work on strenthening and toughening his bench players along the way. I doubt guys like McCarty, Barbosa, and Hunter have their game skills honed or have a game-ready mentality, much less playoff mentality. I know that the teams that win it all in baseball have the habit of putting their bench guys in for sufficient real-time game play during the season. We may lack solid bench players - but what bench we do have is either hopelessly green, or rusty (or both).
 

Chaplin

Better off silent
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
46,462
Reaction score
16,990
Location
Round Rock, TX
SirChaz said:
Why can't we expect more from him? I think we need to know if he will step up and play smart, consistant basketball or if he will fold.

Um, maybe because he has never shown that he can do more than what he did last night? I mean, to that effect, why don't you say that you expect McCarty to play 20 minutes and score over 10 points a game? You work with what you got, and no matter how many times you rub your rabbit's foot, what-you-see-is-what-you-get with Steven Hunter.
 

Chaz

observationist
Joined
Mar 11, 2003
Posts
11,327
Reaction score
7
Location
Wandering the Universe
AZZenny said:
One thing she just touched on bears mention - he's only played 30 minutes once all season: Much as I do like Coach D'A, one of my private criticisms of him all season has been his seeming refusal to work on strenthening and toughening his bench players along the way. I doubt guys like McCarty, Barbosa, and Hunter have their game skills honed or have a game-ready mentality, much less playoff mentality. I know that the teams that win it all in baseball have the habit of putting their bench guys in for sufficient real-time game play during the season. We may lack solid bench players - but what bench we do have is either hopelessly green, or rusty (or both). [/COLOR]


Excellent point.

That is why some of us were wondering while we were winning 30 games to start the season why would couldn't at least get guys that have some size a little more 'on the job training'.

I don't know that it makes much difference anyway. We got where we are mostly with the team of five guys. One of them is down right now and someone needs to step up.

It sure would be nice if it were Hunter.


Chap, I think you are being a little sensitive here. I guess we should just count our blessings if he plays the same way in 30 min tomorrow. My guess is if he can't get loose balls or keep from turning it over on offense he will not see 30 min. Is there any question the guy has talent? Is he not on the biggest stage of his life right now?
 

goldseraph

Irrelevance Sucks :(
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Posts
521
Reaction score
0
Location
Orlando, FL
I'm very happy with how Hunter played. Let's all remember this guy has been considered a ****** for most of his NBA career. The Magic, who have NO big man presence outside of 18 year old Howard, cut him. Then the Cavs cut him. He's known for being a complete blockhead with no offensive game. If he can contribute at all, I think we should happily take it.
 

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
556,113
Posts
5,433,434
Members
6,329
Latest member
cardinals2025
Top