Am I not alone in my thinking after game #2?

[spanky]

Not having anything to go on other than the "snipets" from this board puts me at a disadvantage in assessing the "state of the union" AZ CARDS wise. Unfortunately, my concerns about the team are growing........and I really hope I'm wrong but............

a) Losing KVB (and mark my words, it will be for longer than is being reported as of now) will set the process of improvement on the D-Line back a whole bunch. I hate to be a "harbinger" of doom, but it is going to be VERY hard for KVB to reach his potential now that he'll be operating on two wobbly knees. We might have to accept this fact.......KVB may not return and resume his status as a starter again.

What does this mean as we put a starting D-Line on the field come regular season? Here are my thoughts: Pace and King are going to have to develop as starters imediately. Johnson (who now definitely makes the team) has to step it up to the next level. Quinn and or Moore now make the roster. The BOTTOM LINE is that we are a hell of a lot weaker on D-Line than we were on Saturday morning. And please don't start calling for Bryant to move to DE...........

The ineffectiveness of our offense is starting to concern me. I understand that we've been fielding players who are not going to be our starters but I'm not seeing anything close to what we'll need to do to put up points.

 

[Skkorpion]

The injury probably ends KVB's career. We'll miss him.

 

[Redheart]

Hope your wrong...desperately!

Originally posted by Skkorpion
The injury probably ends KVB's career. We'll miss him.

From what I heard, KVB had recovered from his right knee. It is not "wobbly".

What prevents him from the same process, if necessary (worst case ACL+) on his left.

Point is, why is it career-ending?

 

[ajcardfan]

Originally posted by spanky
And please don't start calling for Bryant to move to DE...........

It doesn't matter if we "call" for it. Both Bryant and Davis have been working at DE already. That's probably just in case something like this happens. You could slide Bryant out there in run downs, put him back in the middle on pass situations. That's not ideal, but that's what we might have to do.

I don't think it'd be wise to expect Pace to play every down this season.

We'll just have to wait and see what the staff does. If they pick up Wilkinson, Bryant will move out to DE. They could pick up Steve White who is still out there and keep Bryant at DT. Or, they might just decide that King and Pace can get more snaps.

 

[spanky]

Skkorp........I'm apt to agree that this injury might effectively end KVB's career. His "give it all there is to give" attitude and style will indeed be missed. Another high draft pick whose injuries will cut short a promising career. Let's be honest though........Vanden Bosch was "solid" but not spectacular and we can recover from this unfortunate development. I've been hoping that Johnson would step up this year and become the steal of his draft class. He's got a golden opportunity now............can we "hope beyond hope"? He'll be under the microscope for the rest of camp.

Walter Mitchell has been high on Alton Moore. May he be the next real pleasant surprise?

I've not heard of any other major injuries. If this is the last before the regular season, then we will have been lucky. There have been some major injuries across the NFL in this years pre-season. Other threads have discussed the merits of shortening the pre-season, so I won't get into it here......but.......................

 

[conraddobler]

I don't think starting Pace and King instead of possibly KVB and Wakefield is that bad at all and I think in the long run it will pay much bigger dividends.

KVB never set the world on fire after he got hurt and I don't think he was going to. He would have been solid but his potential was more limited. That said if both Knees heal he can play again but I don't know that he ever would have been the same from the first one.

We are thin now but there isn't going to be much but bench fillers cut from here on out anyway. I really would have liked to see Bryant convert to end he is fast enough but realy I like Bell to start he seems to be the real deal.

I would start Davis/Tanner Bell King and Pace. The Cardinals aren't going to the playoffs unless everything gells anyway might as well grow them up now.

 

[Northern Card]

It was mentioned last year by the coach that switching BRYANT from DT to DE was a recipe for retarding his growth as a player. In effect, making him a "jack of all trades - master of none." For that reason it was said that he would stay put at DT.

I find it interesting that some who praised KVB in the past, spoke of a breakout year... and, additionally - said that they couldn't wait to have him moved over to LDE, now feel that he's no great loss and can be adequately replaced.

IMO - It's the height of rationalization that the full potential of this defense in the upcoming year can be met with DE's composed of 1. at best a backup, 2. two actual rookies and 3. two virtual rookies.

This loss hurts the team dramatically until PROVEN different.

 

[Redheart]

Originally posted by Northern Card
It was mentioned last year by the coach that switching BRYANT from DT to DE was a recipe for retarding his growth as a player. In effect, making him a "jack of all trades - master of none." For that reason it was said that he would stay put at DT.

I find it interesting that some who praised KVB in the past, spoke of a breakout year... and, additionally - said that they couldn't wait to have him moved over to LDE, now feel that he's no great loss and can be adequately replaced.

IMO - It's the height of rationalization that the full potential of this defense in the upcoming year can be met with DE's composed of 1. at best a backup, 2. two actual rookies and 3. two virtual rookies.

This loss hurts the team dramatically until PROVEN different.

Agree with your take. Nicely stated.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Originally posted by conraddobler
I don't think starting Pace and King instead of possibly KVB and Wakefield is that bad at all and I think in the long run it will pay much bigger dividends.

KVB never set the world on fire after he got hurt and I don't think he was going to. He would have been solid but his potential was more limited. That said if both Knees heal he can play again but I don't know that he ever would have been the same from the first one.

We are thin now but there isn't going to be much but bench fillers cut from here on out anyway. I really would have liked to see Bryant convert to end he is fast enough but realy I like Bell to start he seems to be the real deal.

I would start Davis/Tanner Bell King and Pace. The Cardinals aren't going to the playoffs unless everything gells anyway might as well grow them up now.

I agree... Wakefield, is useless in my eyes. Its kinda like ahving a 7foot center who cant really play. You give him a shot b/c he looks the part (size, attitude) but when it comes down to it he just isnt that talented.

Pace and wakefield will probably end up starting, but we dont knwo if Pace is ready yet. Sure he has played well, but I believe there is some concern with him against the run. He has good strength, but needs more bulk. I liked what Mac was doing, bring him in as a situational pass rusher. that way he is always fresh and flat out get after it on 3rd downs. That way guys on the d-line can stay fresh. That all probably has changed now!


Either way, Pace needs to be on the field.

 

[Wild Card]

Originally posted by Northern Card
I find it interesting that some who praised KVB in the past, spoke of a breakout year... and, additionally - said that they couldn't wait to have him moved over to LDE, now feel that he's no great loss and can be adequately replaced.

NC:

Dead on. The rationalization I've seen on this board in the last 24 hours about KVB's loss is mind-boggling.

Going into a season where the DL was one of the great open questions, about the only sure thing was that a healthy Kyle VandenBosch was gonna be part of the answer. Now he's not.

My take is, the only designated starters whose loss for the season would hurt this team more are Blake, Hodgins, Stark and Jackson. Anyone on the roster today who replaces VandenBosch represents a dropoff in talent, on a d-line that wasn't overly talented to begin with.

Face it, guys. We can't spin our way out of this one.

WC

 

[Skkorpion]

Okay, so it's just spin.

Somebody please point out to me one single play KVB made in 17 days of camp and two preseason games.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

Originally posted by Skkorpion
Okay, so it's just spin.

Somebody please point out to me one single play KVB made in 17 days of camp and two preseason games.

I totally agree and I like Wakefield more over the long term and think he plays with more control than KVB given his limited talent. I think Wakefield will get smarter/better and be a Dishman on the D-Line.

 

[ajcardfan]

Originally posted by Skkorpion
Okay, so it's just spin.

Somebody please point out to me one single play KVB made in 17 days of camp and two preseason games.

echo....echo....echo....

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by Skkorpion
Okay, so it's just spin.

Somebody please point out to me one single play KVB made in 17 days of camp and two preseason games.

My sentiments exactly!

 

[Wild Card]

O.K., let's keep this simple.

There is no question that Kyle VandenBosch was one of the starters at defensive end, correct? The only thing to be determined was which one, LDE or RDE. One side or the other, KVB was gonna start against the Lions. No question.

Presumably, you start because you're the best player at that position on the roster, in the opinion of the coaching staff. I've heard nothing, on this board or anywhere else, to imply that anyone was making a serious push to unseat KVB from that starting role.

Whoever takes his place now will be someone who couldn't win the job in camp, or a free agent who wasn't worth signing a week ago. Either way, this is a worse defensive team than it was before Saturday night's game.

WC

 

[azwulf]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but our starting D-line didn't produce anything against the chargers starting o-line.

I don't know how soon KVB went down but I assume the he played at least the first drive.

Considering that we did't get anything going at first and later had 8 (eight !!!) sacks is remarkable.

I would like it to be a sign of depth on this team. Or second and third string defense played on a higher level than their second and third string O-line. While this is a sign of depth it does not mean that they are playing at the same level as our starting four. KVB will be missed .

But at least our depth is there to cushen this blow.

 

[JeffGollin]

Face it, guys. We can't spin our way out of this one.
But we still have to play the games. (And to quote Herman Edwards: "You play to win the game!")

If this team's (or any other team's) season rises or falls on the availability of any single player, it's a bad team in the first place.

Injuries are inevitable. Atlanta just lost Mike Vick for at least 6 games. You don't hear them conceding the season.

You could make the same case for any of the following players that is now being made regarding the probable loss of KVB - Jeff Blake, Leonard Davis, Wendell Bryant, Calvin Pace, Raynoch Thompson Dexter Jackson & Adrian Wilson.

If any of these were to go down, we'd just have to move another guy up a spot and continue on as best we can. It's part of the game.

As one guy said on the radio, Saturday - "Every head coach in the NFL believes his team has been decimated by injury more than any other NFL team."