An explanation on treading water:

Catfish

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Since I have some free time on my hands today, I would like to clear up something that I alluded to in a previous thread. I had said that I felt it was time for Cardinals fans to tread water and be patient with the players. Some of the posters felt that I was asking you to be patient with the organization. That is not the case, as we have been patient with them for far too long, (as in 40 years too long).

What I meant was that we should be patient with many of the players, as they are grappling with two of the most complicated schemes in all of pro football. Horton's defense is one example of these complicated schemes. This is not merely taking veteran players and putting them into a scheme which is common in the league, but one that few players are even capable of playing, (even when they know the scheme). This has put a lot of angst on not just the veterans new to our roster this year, but especially the rookies that have come aboard, some of whom have been thrown right into the fire. Even our offense is quite complicated, (as evidenced by Kurt Warner's recent remarks that even a savvy QB needs a year in this system before he is truly comfortable with it). This is why I asked for patience with these players.

In my estimation, one of Ken Whizenhunt's shortcomings is his inability, (or failure), to put his best players into a position in which they can achieve. He seems to be determined to try to make players, (whose athletic or mental capabilities are not up to it), try to fit into his complicated schemes. This has not always worked, as evidenced by the number of players whom he didn't feel were successful in his schemes that have been sent packing, but who are successful with their new teams. On the other hand, he continues to draft players who are the best ones available regardless of position, often replacing those who were not successful in his schemes with ones who have identical capabilities as the ones he just shipped out. This is tantamount to attempting to pound square pegs into round holes over and over. It just doesn't work.

When Whiz has gone after players who do know the schemes, he has taken them in free agency, BUT they have already been discarded because they have reduced ability to succeed in that scheme already, and are no longer capable of contributing at a top level, (most being limited at best).

This is what I consider to be this organization's biggest shortcoming. We have had talent to be sure, (especially after Denny Green stocked the pantry for us). Whizenhunt rode that talent all the way to the Super Bowl.
Instead of keeping that talent aboard, he shipped much of it off, trying to find players who fit his ideal, (yet drafting BPA instead of choosing what he really wanted). The result is that he has often been reluctant to use his new talent, either because they don't fit his scheme, or that they need much more time than he is prepared to give them in order to learn that scheme. Some, like Peterson and Jefferson are simply thrown into the fire, and have to take the abuse of learning on the fly. This is a poor substitute for the (competition for positions) that Whiz touts so highly. On the other hand, players who do win the competitions for position, are often relegated to the bench, because they are not the player that Whiz really wanted to succeed, and who he believed would succeed in that competition. This is why I say that Whiz often puts hurdles in front of his players that they must overcome before they can succeed for him. They are often played out of position because they do not fit what he really wants.

In my estimation, a good leader, (or coach, or supervisor), is one who recognized that there is more than one way to skin a cat, and who then finds what his players best attributes are, and devises a scheme to put them into the best position to succeed. Some people call it (making lemonade when you are given lemons). I call it removing the hurdles so that a player can go an do what he does best, therefore giving you the best of his ability. A good leader should not be so inflexible with his schemes, that he is relegated to sending some of his most talented players off simply because they can't excel in his scheme. A really good leader finds a way to bring out the very best in his players, and uses them in a way that they can put that talent on display and be successful with it.

That is why I say be patient, (and tread water), with these players. They have much to give, and most are willing to give it. Someone needs to find a way to get them on the field doing what they do best, even if it means changing the scheme to fit the players, (instead of changing the players to fit the scheme). I am not asking you to be patient with the organization at all. Cardinals fans have long since had their bellies full of that. I am simply saying not to take your ire out on the players who have worked very hard to win a starting job, but have not been put into a position to succeed.
 

Mitch

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Great points, Catfish! It's especially difficult to watch the front office ignore the lack of toughness in the personnel and in the coaches, quite frankly. It's quite clear that the toughness of one man gave this organization a glimpse of rare greatness on one side of the ball---and yet the FO and coaches nearly botched that whole situation---and in the interim have done so little to rectify the team's glaring weaknesses particularly on defense and at offensive tackle---it's a study in futility and false promises. All in? Wow. If this is the FO's version of "all in" then we can expect futility once gain year in and year out. This FO has never understood what ALL means---let alone "all in."

That said, I completely agree with the premise of your first post---young players deserve time and patience. We can only hope that playing for this team, this head coach and this organization doesn't dispirit them and make them forget what it takes to win. Many of them have won most of the games they've played in all their lives. What we need most is for these young players to emerge as tough leaders...by example in practice and on the field on Sundays...or on Monday nights if they ever get another chance at that venue.

Have a great weekend, Fish. Kudos to you, man!
 
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Catfish

Catfish

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Great points, Catfish! It's especially difficult to watch the front office ignore the lack of toughness in the personnel and in the coaches, quite frankly. It's quite clear that the toughness of one man gave this organization a glimpse of rare greatness on one side of the ball---and yet the FO and coaches nearly botched that whole situation---and in the interim have done so little to rectify the team's glaring weaknesses particularly on defense and at offensive tackle---it's a study in futility and false promises. All in? Wow. If this is the FO's version of "all in" then we can expect futility once gain year in and year out. This FO has never understood what ALL means---let alone "all in."

That said, I completely agree with the premise of your first post---young players deserve time and patience. We can only hope that playing for this team, this head coach and this organization doesn't dispirit them and make them forget what it takes to win. Many of them have won most of the games they've played in all their lives. What we need most is for these young players to emerge as tough leaders...by example in practice and on the field on Sundays...or on Monday nights if they ever get another chance at that venue.

Have a great weekend, Fish. Kudos to you, man!

My genuine fear is that without having that toughness in the coaching staff and in a GM position, we will most likely not see it manifest itself on the field. A player who is likely to exhibit that toughness in practice, is most likely to injure a favored player during a practice and be relegated to the bench for his indiscretion.
 

Mitch

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My genuine fear is that without having that toughness in the coaching staff and in a GM position, we will most likely not see it manifest itself on the field. A player who is likely to exhibit that toughness in practice, is most likely to injure a favored player during a practice and be relegated to the bench for his indiscretion.

Or get traded to Baltimore.
 

PitchShifter

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I understood your original post Catfish.
The player personnel and coaching staff personnel are two different sides. I can be patient with the players, but it's the lack of in-game adjustment, week to week adjustment, and addressing of glaring areas of concern generally that kills me. Getting a Qb was only half the job that was needed.

Like you, I'm not convinced that Whiz and crew are putting the best players in the best positions in order to succeed - though I know that's a debated topic (talent v scheme). Did it really take 4 weeks and a study of the tape to realise Porter gets gassed by the end of the game?
 

Cheesebeef

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I understood your original post Catfish.
The player personnel and coaching staff personnel are two different sides. I can be patient with the players, but it's the lack of in-game adjustment, week to week adjustment, and addressing of glaring areas of concern generally that kills me. Getting a Qb was only half the job that was needed.

Like you, I'm not convinced that Whiz and crew are putting the best players in the best positions in order to succeed - though I know that's a debated topic (talent v scheme). Did it really take 4 weeks and a study of the tape to realise Porter gets gassed by the end of the game?

give the Cardinals a break. apparently their VCR was busted all last season and they got it back from the shop this week so they just started being able to watch tape again. better late than never, right?
 
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desertdawg

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Love your stuff Catfish, when it comes to rooting for some Crdainals, it looks like your damned if you do and damned if you don't. I'm with you one million percent, one can only hope and one can only take the last few years into perspective. One can find a reason to bitch as easy as one can find a reason to chill, eye of the be-holder. Some have been beaten soooo long as Cards fans they just expect the worst (which in my world...when expecting the worst...it usually happens). Others hold on to them good moments and look for forward progress, while semi-ignoring our downfalls.

I just need to kick it with Cardinal fans, I think I have a different interpretation of that word. Not trying to offend anybody, can't tell anybody how to fan, but it appears I fan alone up in here sometimes. Let the gloomies have the place, I'd rather spend my time rooting than spend my time explaining why I root. Much love, all respect, everybody has their own path, and I aint better than anybody.
 

RugbyMuffin

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They are professionals. Not kids on a highschool football team.

We pay for a product, and the players should put the work in. Get the job done.

This is a business. The company I bought my TV from doesn't ask me for patience if there TV sucks, and doesn't do what it is supposed to.
 

imaCafan

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They are professionals. Not kids on a highschool football team.

We pay for a product, and the players should put the work in. Get the job done.

This is a business. The company I bought my TV from doesn't ask me for patience if there TV sucks, and doesn't do what it is supposed to.

But the TV can't be blamed for bad reception if the owner is trying to get HD from rabbit ears....
 

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