Andy Dalton, QB, TCU

Pariah

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What's the board's opinion on Dalton from TCU? He doesn't have the biggest arm, but he's accurate and by all accounts has good football smarts at the los and is a hard worker.

Sounds to me like a Whiz kinda guy.

Does he have a shot at making it in the NFL? Or, is his arm strength going to hold him back?
 

SuperSpck

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Not much in the way of a solid youtube reel, but highlights from a big game:


http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/college_player_scouting_report.html&player=62460
NFP said:
Possesses a good build for the position, lacks ideal height but is tall enough and has the muscle tone/girth through his upper body to take an NFL pounding. Is a tough, seasoned leader who knows how to win and doesn't seem to get rattled even in the biggest games. Has bounced back in a big way after a disappointing end to his junior season. Took strides this summer, improving his overall footwork and mechanics from the waist down, allowing him to generate more torque on his throws. Has an above-average arm and when he has the ability to step into throws he can throw any route asked of him at the next level with plenty of zip. Has improved his overall feel in the pass game throughout the year, took better care of the football later in the season and seemed more comfortable scanning the entire field, going through his progressions and quickly aligning his footwork with the target. However, will struggle with his balance and doesn't transfer his weight quickly from his back foot at times, causing his passes to fall short of the target.

Doesn't decipher the blitz as quickly as you would like. Is a good enough athlete to buy time for himself, break containment and create with his legs, but doesn't do a good enough job quickly locating his hot man and getting the ball out on time. His head has a tendency to go down too fast in an effort to buy time or take off. However, does get his head back down the field on the move and showcases good touch and accuracy down the field on bucket throws. Overall, his accuracy in the short and intermediate pass game are above average, his ball placement can get a bit sloppy at times trying to get the ball out quickly in the offense, but when he can step up into a throw he's impressive on all levels of the field. Is maturing in the mental aspects of the game, looking off safeties, using his pump fake to set up corners and standing in the pocket in the face of pressure giving his initial read enough time to get open. But if his initial read isn't on, he isn't as comfortable working his progressions at this stage and finding a secondary option in the face of pressure.

Impression: I like the guy's skill set and he has an understanding for the pass game with room to improve. He took a nice jump from last season to this season and has the ability to get even better. More of a number three early in his NFL career but reminds me a bit of Matt Flynn and could end up fighting for a starting role with some time.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1125961
CBS said:
Not every quarterback enjoyed a strong performance Sunday. TCU's Andy Dalton's average arm strength led to many of his passes fluttering, affecting his accuracy. Dalton's stock shouldn't slip much from his mediocre performance. He is a quarterback who relies on timing, and, of course, he had none with a group of receivers who he was largely meeting for the first time today
Strengths: Intelligent passer who can audible at the line. Durable leader for whom teammates will play. Strong over-the-top delivery, high ball carriage. Good zip on short and intermediate throws, can fit a ball between defenders in zone within 15 yards when footwork is solid. Throws to the opposite hash with accuracy. Nice touch on fade throws. Makes passes tall in the back of the end zone so only his receiver can reach it. Has enough mobility to escape pocket when flushed to throw the ball away, will gain a few yards with his feet when plays break down. Adequate throwing on the run, better running to his right.

Weaknesses: Spread offense product, must learn to read defenses from a drop. Usually catch-and-throw passer from shotgun, makes some poor decisions when primary receiver is covered. Spends little time under center on passing plays, will hand off occasionally from drop. Will throw off his back foot and with an inconsistent spiral when pressured. Does not drive the ball downfield, floats it down the seam or the sideline. Not an elusive runner, needs to keep his head up on the run and learn to slide.
http://sidelinescouting.com/rankings/qb/andy-dalton.shtml
Positives: Above-average arm strength... High velocity thrower... Above average accuracy, throws are often between the numbers... Throws well while scrambling... Has been productive as a four year starter... Sells the pump fake... Good footwork... Does a great job going through his progressions... Rarely throws into double coverage... On the field leader, a good field general... Teammates feed off his energy... A winner; has only lost three games as a starter at TCU, set the TCU record for career wins by a quarterback with 44... Able to make plays with his feet, above-average speed for the position... Routinely picks up first downs with his feet when asked to scramble... Has accumulated over 1600 yards rushing and 22 rushing touchdowns during his career.

Negatives: Has a three-quarters release that will concern teams... Will turn 24 during his rookie year... Comes from a spread system, is far from a finished product as an NFL passer... Needs to learn to take snaps from under center... Has a low ceiling, doesn't possess any rare physical gifts to set him apart from other quarterbacks... Probably will never develop into an NFL starter... When throwing off balance, throws will sail over receiver's heads... Sometimes looks to run too early rather than keeping his eyes downfield to make a throw... Struggled in the Senior Bowl and suffered a small contusion during the game.
 
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Pariah

Pariah

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Boy, those reports are all over the board. It's like they were looking at three different guys.
 

SuperSpck

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Boy, those reports are all over the board. It's like they were looking at three different guys.
Some things I learned from the catch-all:
1) Everyone is an inch shorter than what their college program says. We know they're usually a different weight, that fluctuates; but height? Almost always an inch. Some very generous rounding up.
2) QB scouting is wickedly objective. Depends on which tapes the scout views effect quality of opponent, gameplan, etc.

In Dalton's case he's another spread project. The consensus seems to be he's a leader (mentioned in 2 of 3 reports) and he does a nice job of throwing the ball when his mechanics are in line. Those mechanics sound more wonky then not.

He's probably more physically gifted than Hall.

Here's a measurable comparison:

Hall
Height: 6'1"
Weight: 209 lbs.
Arm Length: 30 in.
Hand Size: 9 in.

Dalton
Height: 6'2"
Weight: 215 lbs.
Arm Length: 31 3/4 in.
Hand Size: 9 1/2 in.

This is semi-off topic but as a college player what did Plummer's scouting report look like (and try to divorce what you knew of him as a pro)?
 

kerouac9

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He's like Ricky Stanzi: He'll be a nice little long-term #2 quarterback for some team. Almost like Charlie Whitehurst, too. I don't put a lot of faith in him becoming a good pro. Could just as easily be Brodie Croyle.
 

SuperSpck

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He's like Ricky Stanzi: He'll be a nice little long-term #2 quarterback for some team. Almost like Charlie Whitehurst, too. I don't put a lot of faith in him becoming a good pro. Could just as easily be Brodie Croyle.
Stanzi's taller and comes from a pro-style offense.
He's made marked improvement season-to-season and has better (not good, just better than...) consistent mechanics.
His problem is mostly staring down receivers.
He's a better prospect than Dalton, but not by a wide margin.
 

Buckybird

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Dalton's are a dime a dozen...nothing special IMO & I've seen every TCU game the last 3 years.
 

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Next time a guy like this comes around and is available in the late first, early second please shake some sense into the front office and tell them that there is some wisdom in drafting and grooming a QB rather than breaking the bank on castoffs. How many times does this franchise have to make the same mistake? Other than Warner, every free agent QB that the franchise has acquired has been a disaster.
 

kerouac9

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Next time a guy like this comes around and is available in the late first, early second please shake some sense into the front office and tell them that there is some wisdom in drafting and grooming a QB rather than breaking the bank on castoffs. How many times does this franchise have to make the same mistake? Other than Warner, every free agent QB that the franchise has acquired has been a disaster.

Ryan Williams > Andy Dalton.

And I say this as a guy who's lukewarm on Ryan Williams.
 

kerouac9

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Grade B Quarterback > Grade B runningback

Again, I'm not carrying water for Ryan Williams. But if Ryan Williams is even a B+ running back, I'd rather have him over a B- QB like Dalton.

Yes, we have a C- QB in either Kolb or Skelton, and it makes it look worse than it is. But if we had a solid B quarterback, a runner like Williams would look really good, I think.

Nothing's going to convince you (or me, really) that Williams is/was the better choice until he proves it in the regular season, but there's nothing special about Andy Dalton, and he's going to prove it to you this year.
 
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Pariah

Pariah

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What guys like Dalton show me is that I'd rather have a QB with C+ physical tools but a B+ head on their shoulders.

I like Williams A LOT--if he can stay healthy I think he can be special. But, I think the Cards need to start looking for a guy like Dalton. Not the biggest or strongest QB, but someone who can place the ball and make good decisions.
 

Arizona's Finest

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Are people actually watching Dalton? I wasn't buying him prior to last years draft but he was VERY impressive vs cards am I have watched 3 or so games subsequently and really like his game. He's going to be a good one and I mean on the Joe Flacco/Matt Ryan level.
 

kerouac9

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Are people actually watching Dalton? I wasn't buying him prior to last years draft but he was VERY impressive vs cards am I have watched 3 or so games subsequently and really like his game. He's going to be a good one and I mean on the Joe Flacco/Matt Ryan level.

Do you like him as much as you liked Kevin Kolb?
 

Arizona's Finest

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This post really reflects poorly on you, AZF.

I thought long and hard about being the better man and not responding even as he was purposely prodding a response much like the one I gave. If you read the Kolb thread, I drew the line in the sand and being the type of guy K9 is it took him all of 45 minutes to not only ignore the line but throw the sand in my

He's got to realize there's cause and effect and reprucussions for your words.

And i know that goes for me as well. So if you want to judge my character based on this post, that's the collateral damage I'll have to deal with. Hopefully some day we can meet and you can make the judgement first hand.
 
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Arizona's Finest

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This place is going downhill pretty fast. Talk about childish.

I wouldn't generalize ASFN based on my response. Again feel free to make whatever assumptions on me you like. The mods did their job and ensured this back and forth won't happen again.
 

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