Another draft idea

[thegrahamcrackr]

Ok, I am sure this could have fit in another thread, but I didn't feel like sifting through them all to see where I should place it.

Say the Suns get the first pick in the draft. (Or the second I guess, they need to be in position to draft Howard)



Ok, so on draft night, as the Suns, would you try and push the Hawks into taking Eisley and #1 for say the #5???

The way I figure it, Atlanta wants to draft Dwight Howard. They have a ton of cap space available, and there is little chance they will be able to fill it.


The suns benefit from the #1 pick this year wouldn't be very valuable in the short run. They would be much better off loosing both White's and Eisley's contracts by the summer of 2005.


However, IMO, the suns would need to start discussions on this right after the lottery (assuming they get the #1). If they could gets this in the works before the expansion draft, they might not have to give up White.


Any thoughts?

 

[slinslin]

I though about basically #1 + and Eisley to Charlotte for #4.

Before dump White on Charlotte in the expansion draft with the Cavs pick.

We would have 23M$ capspace and the #4 pick.

Sign Kobe for 14M$ or keep 15M$ for TMac in 2005 keeping in mind we would need money to resign Johnson as well.

If you get Kobe, sign Dampier for starting at 5M$, Sign Dice for 2M$, Sign Vujanic for 1M$.

Dampier/Voshkul/Lampe
Amare/Dice
Marion/Cabarkapa
Kobe/Jacobsen/Barbosa
Johnson/Vujanic


I also though about trading Eisley and #1 to Washington for their pick and Kwame Brown but that only makes real sense if we get Kobe because JJ's and Kwame's extension would kill our capspace in 2005.

In that scenario you don't go after Dampier.

 

[JerkFace]

Originally posted by slinslin

If you get Kobe, sign Dampier for starting at 5M$, Sign Dice for 2M$, Sign Vujanic for 1M$.

not sure if we could get dampier for 5 million, i've got a feeling he'll want around 7-8 million.

 

[slinslin]

Who is going to give him that?

Nobody I guess. In my opinion he opts out because it will be his last contract and he can get a much better contract now than he could get if he stays for the last 2 years of his big contract.

If he can get 5yrs/35M$ in the offseason I think he takes that.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by slinslin
Who is going to give him that?

Nobody I guess. In my opinion he opts out because it will be his last contract and he can get a much better contract now than he could get if he stays for the last 2 years of his big contract.

If he can get 5yrs/35M$ in the offseason I think he takes that.

I take it you are not planning to become an agent in the near future.

I think Dampier gets at least 4 years at $8 each or he stays with the Warriors.

 

[slinslin]

Dampier is 30yrs old. By the time his current deal expires he might very well not get a very good deal again.

If he stays 2 years for 16M$ and then signs a new contract at 4 years for 20M$.
That makes a total of 6yrs/36M$ with all kinds of his risks that he will face in those 2 years before he can even sign a new contract.

Now if he opts out and signs a 5yrs/35M$ he makes almost as much in one year less and without risk.

 

[scotsman13]

Originally posted by slinslin
I though about basically #1 + and Eisley to Charlotte for #4.

Before dump White on Charlotte in the expansion draft with the Cavs pick.

We would have 23M$ capspace and the #4 pick.

Sign Kobe for 14M$ or keep 15M$ for TMac in 2005 keeping in mind we would need money to resign Johnson as well.

If you get Kobe, sign Dampier for starting at 5M$, Sign Dice for 2M$, Sign Vujanic for 1M$.

Dampier/Voshkul/Lampe
Amare/Dice
Marion/Cabarkapa
Kobe/Jacobsen/Barbosa
Johnson/Vujanic


I also though about trading Eisley and #1 to Washington for their pick and Kwame Brown but that only makes real sense if we get Kobe because JJ's and Kwame's extension would kill our capspace in 2005.

In that scenario you don't go after Dampier.

first of all slin whats makes you think that dampier would take that big of a salery cut? inst he making like 9 million right now? also i will bet you dollars to donuts right now that milos will be signed for over 1 million a year think something like a 3 year deal starting at 1.5. i think that it will be unlikely get mcdyess to resign for anything less then the MLE. as you pointed out jj's contract is going to be up in 05 and amares in 06. you have to start planning on these. amare will be a max contract and you can bet on jj's being somewhere around 7 million. until you want your team to be only 5 deep you better start looking for real ways to cut costs or give real deals to players. if i was mcdyess and you offered me 1 million would think that you had slapped me in the face.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

In a normal FA year, that is very true slin. However, since so many teams have a bunch of cap space, it is possible that he gets a good sized contract.


I mean Atlanta and Utah won't attract anyone else, although Utah doesn't tend to overspend for players.

The Nuggets will have a good amount of cap room available as well. A Dampier/Camby center rotation would be great. It would also provide insurance in case one of them gets injured.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by scotsman13
i think that it will be unlikely get mcdyess to resign for anything less then the MLE.

I'm not sure what kind of offer Dice will get based on 20+ games of minimal play following two years. He is not going to be tested at the 30 minumtes plus that would give assurence that he is completely recovered. One plus with staying with the Suns is that he would not be forced to play heavy minutes to justify a big salary.

At worst, the Suns are likely to wait on making an offer until after they have decided one way or another if they are going to sign Kobe. If they signed Kobe, Dice might decide to do a Malone and stick around where he thinks he has a chance at a ring.

 

[slinslin]

A new TMac idea

I was just think about maybe a different way to get TMac and Kobe without giving up Marion.
If the cap is at the reported 47M$.

1. Expansion Draft
Trade top3+cash to Charlotte for their pick to have them take Howard Eisley. Probably would have to be top2 pick for them to make it.
But they could waive Eisley right away so it would basically come down to paying 10M$.

2. Trade the Cavs pick to San Antonio to fullfil the Barbosa deal if they don't want a pick this year trade it to another team for a future first and that pick going to San Antonio or something like that.
Gives us the flexibility to trade future first round picks.

The Suns should now be at 27.5M$ caproom without the #4 pick.
19.5M$

3. Trade Jahidi White, Joe Johnson, Lampe, #4, Suns 2005 pick for TMac.
That costs the Suns 5M$ caproom.
14.5M total

4. Sign Kobe

5. Begging Divac to sign for the veteran minimum for a chance at a ring. At least try

It is too bad there would be no room to resign Dice or sign Vujanic this season. Unless Kobe would accept a starting salary at 12 or 13 M$ so the Suns could sign Vujanic.
(In that case you could exclude Lampe in step 3. because he was just included to get 900k more to offer Kobe the max)

Voshkul (Divac)
Amare/Harvey
Marion/Cabarkapa
TMac/Jacobsen
Kobe/Barbosa

Great starting lineup but the bench would be really depleted until next season.
Until then we would have to sign some veteran minium players like Scott Williams Kevin Willis.
But then again the Lakers didn't have depth either just minimum players most of the time to fill the last roster spots.


As you can see that is some real number crunching but I simply wanted to see what could be done to not trade Marion. It looks pretty much impossible to get Kobe and TMac while keeping Marion if Kobe wants the max.
And I just have a gut feeling that the Colangelos won't want to trade Marion.
If they would they would certainly not throw in Joe Johnson and our pick.
If anything I could see Marion,#4, Jacobsen and our 2005 pick for TMac. But not Joe Johnson as well if anything as replacement for the #4 but not both.

If the Magic demanded Marion AND Johnson AND a pick that would definately be a NO , no matter how good TMac is I think.

 

[George O'Brien]

Re: A new TMac idea

Originally posted by slinslin

3. Trade Jahidi White, Joe Johnson, Lampe, #4, Suns 2005 pick for TMac.
That costs the Suns 5M$ caproom.
14.5M total

There is no way I would give up Joe Johnson (let alone including Lampe) for a player who is only under contract for one year - no matter how talented. I might consider it if T-Mac signed an extension first, but even then I'm very concerned about his back problems.

 

[slinslin]

You know , screw my TMac idea.

I just looked up Kobe's recent stats again and I wouldn't want Amare and Kobe to share the ball with TMac.

Let Kobe get his 25 shots a game, Amare 20 and let Joe Johnson and Shawn Marion fill in the rest.

Just look to unload either Jahidi and/or Eisley and build a team around the 1-2 punch of Kobe and Amare.
Or TMac and Amare in 2005 if Kobe doesn't sign with us that would be the backup plan.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by slinslin
You know , screw my TMac idea.

I just looked up Kobe's recent stats again and I wouldn't want Amare and Kobe to share the ball with TMac.

Let Kobe get his 25 shots a game, Amare 20 and let Joe Johnson and Shawn Marion fill in the rest.

Just look to unload either Jahidi and/or Eisley and build a team around the 1-2 punch of Kobe and Amare.
Or TMac and Amare in 2005 if Kobe doesn't sign with us that would be the backup plan.

I would really like to keep White if at all possible. He gives them enough toughness than it alters the way teams play the Suns. I'm not sure the Suns can replace him for less than mid cap, which they would not have for a year.

If the Suns were to keep White and Dice, and then sign Kobe, the Suns would be a serious contender next year. Get rid of White and that process gets delayed a year at the least.

 

[slinslin]

If we can get rid off Eisley we should definately get rid off White as well because that is enough money to sign Kobe and a top tier center in this class.

Trade White likely using the Cavs pick or in someother combination in the expansion draft.
Trade down in the draft getting rid off Eisley and Jacobsen if there is a player they like to replace Jacobsen.
If not I would trade out of the draft entirely and keep Jacobsen and maybe getting future picks, even when at #1 I would probably trade out of the draft but for a good future pick like Charlotte's 2005 pick.

We should have ~27.5M$ available.

Kobe 14M$ ~6yrs/100+M$
Dampier 5M$ ~6yrs/40M$ just enough starting over the MLE
Vujanic 1M$ ~3yrs/4M$
Swift 5M$ ~6yrs/40M$ same as Dampier
First round pick 1.5-2.5M$ rest could be spread on the others. Or Jacobsen at 1M$ and increase Dampier, Swift's starting salary by 750k.

Nice thing that Kobe, Dampier, Swift and I believe Marion would expire in the same season giving us lots of options again.

Dampier/Voshkul/Lampe
Amare/Swift
Marion/Cabarkapa
Kobe/Draftpick of Jacobsen
Johnson/Barbosa/Vujanic

Actually I love that lineup. Much more than the ones with TMac. It has depth and quality, youth and athleticism at pretty much all positions.

TMac would be the backup plan if the Suns didn't get Kobe they would keep enough capspace to offer TMac the max in 2005 as well as resigning Johnson. So that would probably mean either Dampier or Swift only this season.

That lineup should easily compete with anyone.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by slinslin
Not counting picks the Suns would be 26M$ under the cap without White and Eisley.

So if we can get rid off Eisley we should definately get rid off White as well because that is enough money to sign Kobe and a top tier center in this class.

Getting rid of Eisley is not going to be easy. That is an absurd contract - not as bad as Hardaway's but just as difficult to move.

White is a role player who might get 25 minutes a game if he loses some weight and becomes quicker on defense. He plays well with Amare and ranks 8th in the NBA in rebounds per minute played. White plays guys like Shaq and Yao better than nearnly any other center in the NBA. Plus, no one ever tries to take a charge when White has the ball.

As for replacing White, it may be more difficult than it looks. The most comparable center is Dampier who is having a great year, but will command upwards of $10 million to start.

Camby is a better player, but he struggles when playing power centers and is injury prone. Okur is not very strong on defense and Divac is likely to be very pricy if he decides to leave the Kings at all.

White has a lot of flaws and limitations, but I would have to be awfully sure the Suns had a replacement lined up before dumping him.

 

[slinslin]

Well it depends on the lottery.

I think the Bobcats would take Eisley to move up to 1 or 2. And some other teams as well that are in the top10.

 

[slinslin]

Originally posted by George O'Brien

As for replacing White, it may be more difficult than it looks. The most comparable center is Dampier who is having a great year, but will command upwards of $10 million to start.
.

No way.

Dampier will get a contract starting at about 5M$ with a nice amount of years on it.
He knows he can only sign 1 big contract again. That is why he is opting out. Not to make more money the next 2 years. To make more money in the next 6 years.

I think Kobe signing with the Suns would set the tone for other FAs because you would have to look at a team that looks like a legit contender with good capspace.

 

[Joe Mama]

If the Phoenix Suns used their lottery pick to get rid of Howard Eiseley they are not going to get a later top 10 pick in return. There just isn't anybody that great in this year's draft.

Joe Mama

 

[slinslin]

I think Atlanta would be one of the teams really desperate.

a) to go big
b) get a franchise player

And Dwight Howard will go top2 most likely and also is from Atlanta.

Utah should be in the top10 with lots of capspace.

Charlotte is in the same boat as Atlanta.


Basically if we get a #1-2 pick we could probably trade down to #4-10.

If we get #3-6 we could probably trade down to 12-20 or entirely out of the draft and keeping Jacobsen instead of replacing him with the draftpick in my scenario.

 

[slinslin]

We could probably trade down and get Iguodala!

 

[slinslin]

Originally posted by slinslin


Dampier/Voshkul/Lampe
Amare/Swift
Marion/Cabarkapa
Kobe/Draftpick of Jacobsen
Johnson/Barbosa/Vujanic

Rotation

C-Dampier 28mpg / Swift 20mpg
PF-Amare 38mpg/ Swift 10mpg Lampe and Voshkul would fill in if someone is injured, plays bad or is in foul trouble
SF-Marion 38mpg / Johnson 10mpg Cabarkapa
SG-Kobe 40mpg / Johnson 8mpg Jacobsen
PG-Johnson 18mpg /Barbosa 20mpg /Vujanic 10mpg

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by slinslin
We could probably trade down and get Iguodala!

This is not impossible, just HIGHLY unlikely. Besides, I think he will stay in school for another year. If he develops a jump shot, he could be a mid lottery pick, but right now his game is too limited considering he is listed at only 6'6".