Another Marion trade that works under the cap

[fordronken]

Why? Because I had a few minutes to kill and I'm tired of every other team's announcer on League Pass talking about how funny his shot is.

Phoenix trades:
Shawn Marion
Jahidi White
New York's pick
Cleveland's pick

Utah trades:
Keon Clark
Matt Harpring

Why Utah does it?
They have a history of difficulty landing big free agents. This gets them a pretty darn good player who would benefit from Sloan's system and who is locked up for a long time. Plus, they get two decent first round draft picks to rebuild through.

Why Phoenix does it?
They get that white guy who can actuall shoot(not to mention getting rid of that White guy who can't). They also get a whole lot of cap space to go after whatsisname. If they do get him, they could move JJ to the three and trade Harpring for a servicable big fella in the offseason(assuming that by acquiring another shooting guard Johnson wouldn't revert back to the womb).

Oh, and if Chap says "BYC" I'm going to cut off my pinkie and hand it to him in a napkin.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by fordronken

Oh, and if Chap says "BYC" I'm going to cut off my pinkie and hand it to him in a napkin.

BYC.

 

[fordronken]

Re: Re: Another Marion trade that works under the cap

Originally posted by Chaplin
BYC.

Saw this coming. Sent it in the mail yesterday.

 

[Chaplin]

Seriously though, can you detail out the money details? How much does that free up for us?

 

[Chaplin]

Re: Re: Re: Another Marion trade that works under the cap

Originally posted by fordronken
Saw this coming. Sent it in the mail yesterday.

Yeah, don't actually say you don't want something if you really don't want it.

 

[elindholm]

Um...

This is the same Utah team that has had Andrei Kirilenko on its roster in every previous discussion, right?

 

[slinslin]

I don't like Harpring really and why are we giving up 2 first round picks? Am I missing something? We give up the best player in this trade also.

 

[capologist]

DFI.

(Stands for “Dumb Idea.”)

 

[JS22]

I dont like it. We are giving up WAY too much for cap space. Its not worth going after Kobe if you are going to make insane trades like this.

Im not attacking you, and i *do* see where you are coming from, but I just couldnt see this happening.

 

[King A]

do not include white but eisley and remove a pick, not so bad

but nah, marion's too good

 

[Chaplin]

Reason #27 for not trading Shawn Marion:

There's no guarantee we're going to be able to get Kobe Bryant.

 

[fordronken]

Yeah, I was just trying, for the first time, propose a trade that the other team might actually do. My other thought was White and Eisley for Ostertag and Clark.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by fordronken
Yeah, I was just trying, for the first time, propose a trade that the other team might actually do. My other thought was White and Eisley for Ostertag and Clark.

You could do White for Clark since Utah with Eisley as a separate transaction since Utah has the cap space. Eisley cannot be bundled due to the short time elapse from his other trade, so Ostertag is out.

 

[SweetD]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I say we just give Utah Marion and we can take a 2nd round pick in return.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by SweetD
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I say we just give Utah Marion and we can take a 2nd round pick in return.

I hope that is a joke.

 

[SweetD]

Originally posted by Chaplin
I hope that is a joke.

YA this trade Marion thing has gone crazy. There is no way I would want Harpring for Marion.

 

[cly2tw]

Why do we want to trade Marion now?

When we extended him, we were way over cap and no chance that was gonna change anytime soon due to extension for Marbury. Marion is overpaid, but as Graham said, it didn't matter much due to insignificant cap implication then.

Now, the situation changed drastically. Trading Marion away frees a lot of cap room. Say trade him to Utah with 2 1st-rounders, which Utah will never accept anyway, or trade him + White + one or two 1st-rounders to Dallas, Googs + cash etc to Utah, for Walker + Najara + Clark (Utah is needed to bypass the BYC problem).

This way, we essentially are looking at 26 mil in cap space to rebuild the franchise the next two years before Amare's max contract shrinks it significantly. Example 1: we sign Kobe for 14.5mil, Camby for 6 mil, Marshall for 4 mil, another center for 2 mil. Our lineup:

Camby/Amare/JJ/Kobe/Barbosa as the starters,

Jake/Lampe/no-name-center/zarko/Marshall/CJ/Eisley/Lottary-pick on the bench.

The starters will make a hell of a denfensive team and extremely potent on offense too. With this team and Vujanic still to join it, we have no need for draft picks for at least 3 years. This is just one random example. Some people make like other compositions with this available cap. That's exactly the beauty of having the flexibility with enough cap space.

Now, I challenge any pro-Marion fan to come up with a Suns team without trading Marion away and to compare it with mine.

As a simple rule of thumb, when somebody is overpaid then the cap space his contract occupies worth more than the player's production on the team, by definition, as long as you can actually use this cap space.

 

[newfan101]

I really think this needs to be put to rest. There isn't anyone that want's to see us go after Kobe more than me, and I would trade Marion in a hearbeat if I new the freed up cap space could lure him here. I also am not the biggest fan of Marion, and don't feel he's the best compliment to Amare. That said, Marion absolutely will not be traded this season. There's no reason to limit all trades to Utah because of his BYC status. And until Kobe actually opts out, gets freed of his charges, and shows interest in our team, there's no reason to kill ourselves freeing up cap space by giving away Marion so we can sign the Okur's and Camby's of the world.

Marion, with all his quirks, will stay a Sun till the end of the year. Most likely he will be here next year. And while I hate seeing him brick last second 3's, that isn't all that bad.

 

[elindholm]

Marshall for 4 mil

Surely you can't mean Donyell Marshall. He should get a lot more than $4 million per year.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by cly2tw


Now, I challenge any pro-Marion fan to come up with a Suns team without trading Marion away and to compare it with mine.

How about, you have no basis in reality and living in a fantasy world? That is a Yahoo fantasy team you've just constructed, and while in theory it may be possible, in reality, it probably would never happen.

You consistently bring up trading Marion--and it HAS to be with Utah or involving Utah--and only for specific players and/or picks. Do you know what the odds are that those scenarios can actually happen?

These consistent trade "rumors" belong on the ESPN board, not this one.

 

[cly2tw]

Originally posted by cly2tw

As a simple rule of thumb, when somebody is overpaid then the cap space his contract occupies worth more than the player's production on the team, by definition, as long as you can actually use this cap space.

newfan101,

I'd just like to reiterate the above and to know whether you agree.


eric,

cool. So let me refine it by saying replace Marion (11mil next year) with Marshall for 6-7 mil per and Foyle for 3-4 mil per. Maybe we could even add Jim Jackson for 2 mil per just with the cap lot left by Marion's contract. With or without Kobe, I prefer the team with Marion's replacements above as just one of many feasible options.

 

[elindholm]

I absolutely agree that it is theoretically possible to find a better way to spend $11 million next season than on Shawn Marion. You will get no argument from me there. However, I also agree with Chaplin that there's virtually no way that such an ideal scenario could play out. So it's not really worth worrying about.

We all agree that Marion is playing poorly, and for the money he's making, it would be preferable to have one or more players who are playing well. Unfortunately, I think we're all stuck with him for now, so we might as well get used to it.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by elindholm
I absolutely agree that it is theoretically possible to find a better way to spend $11 million next season than on Shawn Marion. You will get no argument from me there. However, I also agree with Chaplin that there's virtually no way that such an ideal scenario could play out. So it's not really worth worrying about.

We all agree that Marion is playing poorly, and for the money he's making, it would be preferable to have one or more players who are playing well. Unfortunately, I think we're all stuck with him for now, so we might as well get used to it.

Absolutely. Even this summer when the BYC issue goes away, the only trades that the Suns could make would be for other players with big contracts like Keith Van Horn.

As a rule of thumb, it is impossible to trade one overpaid big contract for a bunch of underpaid small contracts. IMPOSSIBLE.
Not just difficult, impossible. Get over it.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
Absolutely. Even this summer when the BYC issue goes away, the only trades that the Suns could make would be for other players with big contracts like Keith Van Horn.

As a rule of thumb, it is impossible to trade one overpaid big contract for a bunch of underpaid small contracts. IMPOSSIBLE.
Not just difficult, impossible. Get over it.

And just how overpaid is Marion? That's the real question. And consider the rest of the players we could get in return, but I will wager that a good 85% of them are overpaid much worse than Marion is.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Chaplin
And just how overpaid is Marion? That's the real question. And consider the rest of the players we could get in return, but I will wager that a good 85% of them are overpaid much worse than Marion is.

Considering that the biggest problem with Marion is shot selection and his tendence to jump on fakes when defending, I think Marion could be a lot better than he is. Almost every guy who is available is someone his teams thinks is not going to get better.