Any Thoughts About Kurt Thomas?

[George O'Brien]

The rumor mills suggest that many teams have been trying to trade for Kurt Thomas of the Knicks. Thomas has a "player option" for next season, so he could opt out. Presumably I. Thomas believes the Knicks will be able to re-sign him.

Right now Kurt Thomas is scheduled to make $5.9 million next season, which is above the likely mid cap amount. That being the case, the only teams that would have the cap to bid on him are Utah, Denver, Portland, and the Clippers.

Kurt Thomas is hardly an ideal candidate to be the Sun's center. He is only 6'9" 235. However, his stats this season are pretty impressive:

11.5 ppg on 45.7% and 82.8% for free throws, 9 rpg, 1.1 blocks per game.

HoopsHype describes him a very good low post defender with improving offensive skills and a mid range jumper. He is 31 years old, but has not missed more than five games in a season since 98-99.

Kurt Thomas is not a "dominant" center and not enough of a shot blocker for my taste. But he would be a major upgrade in the center position or else play PF with Amare at center.

Am I off base on this?

 

[elindholm]

I like Kurt Thomas a lot, but he isn't the solution to any of the problems you complain about. He is no larger than Stoudemire and probably less well suited to play center.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by elindholm
I like Kurt Thomas a lot, but he isn't the solution to any of the problems you complain about. He is no larger than Stoudemire and probably less well suited to play center.

My two biggest concerns are the ability to defend the paint and rebound. He does that a lot better than the guys the Suns have.

I'm not pretending he is the shot blocking, quick footed hulk I dream of; but he ads a lot and is unlikely to command more than Camby, Ostertag, Dampier, and Okur who are the names usually discussed. Okur is not a strong defender, Ostertag is slow, Camby is a major injury risk and Dampier has not produced much prior to this year and has a history of injuries. Relatively speaking, Kurt Thomas may be the best choice.

I think if you put Thomas at center with the current Suns lineup, the team is a good bet to make the playoffs next season. To go beyond that, someone like Lampe might need to emerge. But I would rather the team get playoff experience than just wait around for a prospect to develop.

 

[elindholm]

He does that a lot better than the guys the Suns have.

How much have you seen him play? He has a power forward's build and game. He'd certainly be less effective at guarding the West's big men than Voskuhl is, and he isn't a shot blocker. He probably is a better rebounder than most or all of the current Suns squad, but since the Suns -- except for Voskuhl, ironically enough -- are philosophically opposed to boxing out, that's hardly saying much.

I think if you put Thomas at center with the current Suns lineup, the team is a good bet to make the playoffs next season.

Maybe, but they'd get destroyed in the first round.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by elindholm
He does that a lot better than the guys the Suns have.

How much have you seen him play? He has a power forward's build and game. He'd certainly be less effective at guarding the West's big men than Voskuhl is, and he isn't a shot blocker. He probably is a better rebounder than most or all of the current Suns squad, but since the Suns -- except for Voskuhl, ironically enough -- are philosophically opposed to boxing out, that's hardly saying much.

I think if you put Thomas at center with the current Suns lineup, the team is a good bet to make the playoffs next season.

Maybe, but they'd get destroyed in the first round.

Do they? I suppose that would be true if they are playing Shaq or Yao. I'm not so sure with the other matchups.

In any case, there are problems with every FA likely to be available over the next two years. Do the Suns simply write those seasons off because none of the FA's are a big enough improvement over the current players?

 

[Errntknght]

I'd go for Kurt at the right salary but I'd rather have Vlade at the same money. He wouldn't produce as much as Kurt but maybe some of his smarts would rub off on the other guys, who simply play dumb. Besides he'd be a great mentor for Lampe... I suspect that our current big man coach knows little about the high post game.

 

[devilalum]

If the Suns became magically rich they could trade Googs for Theo Ratliff straight up tomorrow.

And in this same magical world Ratliff would never get hurt and be a dominant defensive presence.

 

[SirStefan32]

Kurt Thomas would be a nice fit with Amare Stoudemire. He is undersized, but he has a very nice jumper to use against bigger guys, he can post up smaller guys, and the fact of the matter is that he is bigger than CJ or JJ. I'll take Thomas and Amare on 4 and 5 over CJ, Marion, or JJ on 4.

However, I think that he is NOT good enough to take the Suns further than the first round of playoffs.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by SirStefan32
Kurt Thomas would be a nice fit with Amare Stoudemire. He is undersized, but he has a very nice jumper to use against bigger guys, he can post up smaller guys, and the fact of the matter is that he is bigger than CJ or JJ. I'll take Thomas and Amare on 4 and 5 over CJ, Marion, or JJ on 4.

However, I think that he is NOT good enough to take the Suns further than the first round of playoffs.

I guess that's my thoughts. BTW, he scored 28 points last night. Since Mutombo had only 23 minutes, I'm guessing at least some of them were at the #5.

Also, I'm sorry I forgot to mention Divac. He may be the best short term solution the Suns could get. There are a lot of doubts about whether he would be willing to leave the Kings at an affordable price, but maybe the Serbian connection would help.
Maybe we should hope the Kings win it all so he doesn't hang on there just to get a shot at a ring.

 

[elindholm]

BTW, he scored 28 points last night. Since Mutombo had only 23 minutes, I'm guessing at least some of them were at the #5.

I just don't understand what criterion you're using. Yes, of course Thomas sometimes plays center. No one is debating that. If you had watched the game yesterday, you would have seen that Thomas's center minutes were mainly when the Clippers were using Brand in the pivot. Stoudemire also sometimes plays center. The Suns could use McDyess or Gugliotta at center if either were healthy.

How come it's fine with you for any other team in the league to use an undersized PF at center, but it's not okay for the Suns? Please help me understand this.

In any case, there are problems with every FA likely to be available over the next two years.

Excellent point. So spend the money on quality players at the scoring positions, rather than mediocre upgrades at "center."

 

[Yuma]

Kurt Thomas was one of our best gymnast's ever, but was in way over his head in the movie Gymkata! He lacks some serious size to play center for us! He can do a mean backflip after he dunks, though!!

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by elindholm

How come it's fine with you for any other team in the league to use an undersized PF at center, but it's not okay for the Suns? Please help me understand this.

Size is not a direct measure of toughness and the ability to play good defense. Sure, I'd rather than a big guy, but I'll accept a smaller center with the strength and toughness to defend the low block and grab rebounds.

In any case, there are problems with every FA likely to be available over the next two years.

Excellent point. So spend the money on quality players at the scoring positions, rather than mediocre upgrades at "center."

I don't see having someone who can rebound and defend the low block without help a mediocre upgrade. Relatively speaking, it is easier to draft guys who can score than good defensive interior guys.

 

[dyle_ph1]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
I guess that's my thoughts. BTW, he scored 28 points last night. Since Mutombo had only 23 minutes, I'm guessing at least some of them were at the #5.

The Knicks usually play Doleac or Harrington as backup in the center position. Thomas plays most of his minutes at PF even in the east.

 

[elindholm]

Size is not a direct measure of toughness and the ability to play good defense.

Neither is someone's rebounds-per-game average, which seems to be the primary thing you look at.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by elindholm
Size is not a direct measure of toughness and the ability to play good defense.

Neither is someone's rebounds-per-game average, which seems to be the primary thing you look at.

After the Suns got killed on the boards by the notably weak rebounding Jazz, yes that is the first thing I look at. But I know that some guys can rebound and not play defense, so I look at how the guys plays overall.

BTW, what is the worst that happens if the Suns sign Kurt and he is not the answer at center? He has great trade value and could still get 30 minutes backing up Amare and Jake.

I'm not sure that Kurt Thomas would be my first choice this summer. Divac on short term contract is my first choice. But the Suns clearly need to strengthen the position.

 

[elindholm]

BTW, what is the worst that happens if the Suns sign Kurt and he is not the answer at center? He has great trade value and could still get 30 minutes backing up Amare and Jake.

Since I have a habit of disagreeing with you, I will say that this is a good point. Thomas, unlike most big men, has a record of being quite healthy, and that's worth a lot. Sure, he has some nagging injury issues, but they are pretty minor. And as long as the Suns are going to spend a lot of their time going small anyway, they could do a lot worse than a three-big tandem of Stoudemire, Thomas, and Voskuhl.

 

[George O'Brien]

Issue May Be Moot

Kurt Response by Isiah: I Want to Keep Him Here

Bob Herzog
STAFF WRITER

February 9, 2004


There were no doubting Thomases at Madison Square Garden last night. Not Knicks forward Kurt, who matched his season high with 28 points and extended his streak of shots made to 14 before his first miss. And not Knicks president Isiah, who said before the game that he is concerned with extending the taller Thomas' contract, not trading him, as had been rumored earlier this season.

"We're in negotiations with Kurt right now, trying to work numbers out and everything else," Isiah Thomas said.

Kurt Thomas can opt out of his contract at the end of this season, but the Knicks' new president is not about to let that happen.

"The first day I got here, I realized how important Kurt was to the team," Isiah Thomas said. "All the talk that I heard before I got here was every trade proposal involved Kurt. You have not heard one trade proposal come out of here since I've been here involving Kurt. We recognize Kurt's importance, and we want to reward him. He's a valuable player to us."

That value was evident for a second straight game. Thomas benefited from the double-teams drawn by Stephon Marbury and nailed seven straight shots to start last night's 110-104 victory over the Clippers. He had finished the team's victory over the Heat on Saturday by making seven consecutive field-goal attempts.

"I didn't know," Thomas said with a laugh.

Thomas, who is averaging 11.8 points and 8.9 rebounds per game, suffered a sprained pinky on his right (shooting) hand Jan. 31, and although it hasn't hurt his shooting, it continues to hurt him. "There's a lot of pain," he said. "I know it will get banged, but my teammates keep telling me to shoot it and I've been getting open looks."

Notes & Quotes: While Isiah Thomas said he has no intention of trading Kurt Thomas, the Knicks' president acknowledged he's still looking to make some moves before the Feb. 19 trade deadline. "I'm always trying to make the team better," Thomas said. "Our goal is to be the best. Until that day comes, we got to keep trying to improve and keep trying to get better. I know other teams are trying to get better, too. If the two meet and something works ... but I do know it's very difficult in this league to make deals."