April 29th, Will the Suns rise again in the west?

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Will the Suns rise again in the West?

By Chad Ford
NBA Insider
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Thursday, April 29

Considering the regularity with which the sun rises and sets every day, why is it most observers are always a day behind when it comes to getting a handle on the Phoenix Suns?
In 2002, the conventional wisdom was the Suns would be the worst team in West. They had traded away star Jason Kidd for the erratic Stephon Marbury, drafted a high school kid, Amare Stoudemire, to play power forward and had a gimpy, washed up Penny Hardaway playing small forward. Their starting group of power forwards -- Jake Voskuhl and Scott Williams -- induced snickers. An emerging Shawn Marion seemed like the only real selling point in Phoenix.


2004 Free agents
That season was Marbury's best ever; Marion put up all-star numbers; Stoudemire became the first high school player ever to win Rookie of the Year; Hardaway found his groove; and Voskuhl and Williams combined to become a pretty decent presence in the middle. The Suns ended up in the playoffs and scared the heck out of the eventual world champion Spurs in the first round.
In 2003, the conventional wisdom said the Suns were the best young team in the league. Marbury had turned the corner and had just received a nice fat contract extension. Joe Johnson, after a stellar summer league performance, was ready to take over from Hardaway. Marion was now an all-star. Stoudemire had a shot at becoming an all-star. The draft had yielded two impressive prospects, Zarko Cabarkapa and Leandro Barbosa, who were supposed to step in and contribute immediately. The Suns were deep, athletic and poised to take on the big guns of the West.
Then disaster struck. Marbury became selfish again. Johnson was erratic, and Penny looked old. Marion's shot faltered. Stoudemire kept improving, but constant injuries kept holding him back. Cabarkapa went down with an early season injury. A trade of Bo Outlaw and Jake Tsakalidis to the Grizzlies backfired, and the Suns suddenly were too small to defend the paint. Frank Johnson lost his job. Assistant Mike D'Antoni took over. Then, GM Bryan Colangelo pulled the plug.
In the most shocking trade of the season, he sent Marbury and Hardaway to the Knicks for Howard Eisley, Antonio McDyess, Charlie Ward, Maciej Lampe, the rights to Milos Vujanic and the Knicks' No. 1 pick.
The hottest young team in the NBA just went up in smoke. As Suns fans freaked and commentators everywhere scratched their heads, Colangelo remained calm. The team had realized early in the season it wasn't going to win a championship with Marbury at the helm. His selfishness was already causing rifts in the locker room. With a huge extension under Marbury's belt, the Suns had to act quickly to trade him away while they still could.
In the process, the team slashed $31 million in payroll and actually positioned itself to be roughly $7 to $9 million under the cap this summer. Owner Jerry Colangelo subsequently put the team on the market and sold it within weeks of the regular season ending.
With new owners coming in (Colangelo remains the team's CEO, and his son, Bryan, remains the GM), a lottery pick, and lots of free-agent cash to spend this summer, the Suns have the potential to be one of the most improved teams in the league again next year.
How will they do it? Here's a look at what to expect as Insider continues its summer blueprint series.
Suns Summer Blueprint

DRAFT: The Suns currently own the No. 6 pick in the draft, but all signs point to them attempting to move the pick this summer in an effort to clear more cap space.
That may change if the Suns get the No. 1 or No. 2 pick in the draft. However, with just a 6.4 percent shot at getting No. 1, that scenario is pretty unlikely. Drafting sixth, the team could find another point guard or a European big man to create depth, but the team really doesn't need either right now.
What the Suns really need is more cap room. That No. 6 pick amounts to a $2.1 million cap hold on their roster. The team would really like to package the pick along with Jahidi White (who makes $6.2 million in the last year of his deal) to a team with lots of cap room like the Bobcats. A trade like that could put them as much as $15 million under the cap next season.

FREE AGENCY: Free agency could be the key to the Suns' turnaround next season. The team wants to add a superstar in the backcourt to complement Stoudemire. If the Suns can figure out a way to trade their pick and White, they'll have plenty of money to throw at Kobe Bryant.


The Suns are hoping to have enough cap room to make a run at Kobe Bryant this summer.
If they can't clear the cap space, the Suns will likely look to either make another trade to land the star they've been looking for or use the money wisely to add a few missing pieces. They've had their eye on the Pistons' Mehmet Okur for some time and have enough cash to make him an offer the Pistons would be unlikely to match.
McDyess and Keon Clark both come off the books this summer, but neither is expected to be re-signed.
The other big news on the free agency front concerns Vujanic. Vujanic, widely considered the top point guard in Europe, is currently in Italy playing for one of the top teams in Europe. He's had an excellent season and now has a top U.S. agent who will be in charge of handling a buyout this summer.
Vujanic (who wisely turned down a chance to play for the dysfunctional Knicks last summer) sounds like he's ready to come to the NBA this year if the money is right. Expect the Suns to lure Vujanic here this summer. He'd be a great addition to their backcourt.
TRADES: Here is where things could get interesting. If the Suns can't clear the cap room or get turned down by Kobe, they have enough assets to make a great trade for a star if they want to. The Suns would likely be willing to part with their first-round pick, Marion and possibly even Johnson to land another star.
With star swingmen like Tracy McGrady, Paul Pierce, Vince Carter, Allen Iverson, Ray Allen, and, at the point, Steve Francis, all potentially available, the Suns would have a nice pool of players to pick from. The Magic would likely be the most interested in making a trade with the Suns.
The Magic would likely demand Marion, Johnson and the No. 1 for McGrady. Trading McGrady away would be tough to swallow in Orlando, but the two young swingmen plus the extra lottery pick would give the Magic a serious headstart in the rebuilding process in Orlando. If the Magic could turn their two number ones into Emeka Okafor and a point guard like Devin Harris or Ben Gordon, they would be in business with a very nice young core.
McGrady would be a great fit alongside Stoudemire in Phoenix. Throw in free agents like Okur, Vujanic and the rest of the Suns young players like Carbarkapa and Barbosa and the team would be ready to take off again.
COACHING: D'Antoni inherited a terrible situation in Phoenix and did the best with what he could. He's a good fit for the Suns. He likes to play an up-tempo type game and his European background has helped him relate to the plethora of international players on the Suns' roster. He's going to get another year to turn this thing around, and given D'Antoni's background, he may be able to do it.

FRONT OFFICE: Bryan Colangelo is one of the most underrated GMs in the league. He has a great eye for talent. The Suns have been one of the best drafting teams in the league over the past five years. He also has made solid decisions about cap management and rebuilding the team. Now that the ownership situation is taken care of (Bryan is now a part owner) his job should be secure and he can get busy rebuilding the Suns back into a contender.
If he can land a player of Kobe's or T-Mac's caliber this summer, the Suns should be able to hang with anyone in the West next year. If he has to settle for something less than that, the Suns still have enough talent to return to the playoffs next season. Either way, the future looks bright in Phoenix at the moment.


:thumbup:
 

Yuma

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I'm Mildly interested in the off season after reading this. The TMac for Marion, JJ, and the number 1 pick is risky to me. Not from a talent standpoint, but from a depth standpoint. I mean, If you have TMac, JJ is superfluous. However, we definatly get weaker at the SF spot. I know most guys think the Matrix is overpaid, but where can we get a guy who scores without running plays for him, and grabs boards we desperatly need in Phoenix out of the small forward spot? If it was JJ, the number one, and maybe Vokshul, especially if we get Okur, then I would feel a lot better about it. You could then have Vujanic, Okur, TMac, Amare, and Marion in the starting 5. Marion is the guy who does the lunchbox type of stuff you need done when you have a Superstar like TMac on your squad. I would think that would be a respectable lineup in the Western conference! :) :hulk:
 

Chaplin

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Yuma said:
I'm Mildly interested in the off season after reading this. The TMac for Marion, JJ, and the number 1 pick is risky to me. Not from a talent standpoint, but from a depth standpoint. I mean, If you have TMac, JJ is superfluos. However, we definatly get weaker at the SF spot. I know most guys think the Matrix is overpaid, but where can we get a guy who scores without running plays for him, and grabs boards we desperatly need in Phoenix out of the small forward spot? If it was JJ, the number one, and maybe Vokshul, especially if we get Okur, then I would feel a lot better about it. You could then have Vujanic, Okur, TMac, Amare, and Marion in the starting 5. Marion is the guy who does the lunchbox type of stuff you need done when you have a Superstar like TMac on your squad. I would think that would be a respectable lineup in the Western conference! :)

I'm all for not including JJ in a trade for TMac. I'd like to start Vujanic, JJ and TMac with Amare and whoever at the 5 spot. Although in reality, I'd prefer a JJ/Kobe/TMac/Amare/anyone lineup. :D
 

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Chaplin said:
I'm all for not including JJ in a trade for TMac. I'd like to start Vujanic, JJ and TMac with Amare and whoever at the 5 spot. Although in reality, I'd prefer a JJ/Kobe/TMac/Amare/anyone lineup. :D

Im with you do not trade JJ, move Carbakapa or anyone else not named Amare to get it done but I dont think you can include JJ in any trade package. At this point I almost consider him untouchable. He has gotten better every year and is just starting to tap his potential.
 

fordronken

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Yuma said:
I'm Mildly interested in the off season after reading this. The TMac for Marion, JJ, and the number 1 pick is risky to me. Not from a talent standpoint, but from a depth standpoint. I mean, If you have TMac, JJ is superfluous. However, we definatly get weaker at the SF spot. I know most guys think the Matrix is overpaid, but where can we get a guy who scores without running plays for him, and grabs boards we desperatly need in Phoenix out of the small forward spot? If it was JJ, the number one, and maybe Vokshul, especially if we get Okur, then I would feel a lot better about it. You could then have Vujanic, Okur, TMac, Amare, and Marion in the starting 5. Marion is the guy who does the lunchbox type of stuff you need done when you have a Superstar like TMac on your squad. I would think that would be a respectable lineup in the Western conference! :) :hulk:

Including JJ instead of Marion kills our capspace. And I'd rather play JJ at small forward anyway, particularly since we have more of scoring point guards in Leandro and Milos(supposedly). That would allow JJ to play more of a point forward role-- one which would keep him aggressive, I think.
 

George O'Brien

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DON'T TRADE JJ.

I have a couple of other comments:

1. I prefer Mark Blount over Okur for the same price.

2. I think the Suns will re-sign Dice if the price is right.

3. If the only way to clear White to the Bobcats is by giving up their lottery pick, I'd pass. I'd prefer to try to deal with Atlanta by offering Eisley, the lottery pick, the Cleveland pick, and Voskuhl. This would leave White available for inclusion in another trade.
 

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George O'Brien said:
DON'T TRADE JJ.

I have a couple of other comments:

1. I prefer Mark Blount over Okur for the same price.

2. I think the Suns will re-sign Dice if the price is right.

3. If the only way to clear White to the Bobcats is by giving up their lottery pick, I'd pass. I'd prefer to try to deal with Atlanta by offering Eisley, the lottery pick, the Cleveland pick, and Voskuhl. This would leave White available for inclusion in another trade.

I agree with all points
 

cly2tw

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Marion, Zarko, Suns' #6 pick, Eisley to Boston for Pierce, Steward, Mihm.

Or Marion, JJ, Suns' #6 pick, Eisley to Boston for Pierce, Steward, Mihm, Boston's #13.

Then, Steward + pick + cash to Bobcats in the expansion draft, Mihm's expires, and we have 15mil + cap room to operate with for FA. Anyone?
 

George O'Brien

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cly2tw said:
Marion, Zarko, Suns' #6 pick, Eisley to Boston for Pierce, Steward, Mihm.

Or Marion, JJ, Suns' #6 pick, Eisley to Boston for Pierce, Steward, Mihm, Boston's #13.

Then, Steward + pick + cash to Bobcats in the expansion draft, Mihm's expires, and we have 15mil + cap room to operate with for FA. Anyone?

I might accept the first option. No way would I include JJ on the second option.
 

thegrahamcrackr

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I have seriously cooled on the Pierce trade proposals. I am actually at the point where I think I would rather have Marion than Pierce, contract included.

I just don't find a need to trade for a guy who we might have a better replacement for in the next year or so. If you make Joe Johnson the only offensive option on the team, I would bet he does better than Pierce actually.

I will admit I don't get to see a lot of him, but like AI, I think a lot of people have cooled on him being a superstar.
 

Joe Mama

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Graham, I agree about Paul Pierce. Allen Iverson's biggest problem has been and will continue to be durability. His injury problems are only going to get worse as his career goes on. He is only a borderline superstar if he can constantly attacked the basket, but his small frame gets beat to hell when he does that. That contract extension he just received is going to look just awful in a couple years when he spends half the season on the IL and the other half being relatively ineffective from the perimeter.

Joe Mama
 

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I would take Shawn Marion over Paul Pierce any day of the week.

JJ and Paul Pierce couldn't play together the first time. What makes you think it will work now?
 

Joe Mama

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Chris_Sanders said:
I would take Shawn Marion over Paul Pierce any day of the week.

JJ and Paul Pierce couldn't play together the first time. What makes you think it will work now?

how long did JJ play with the Celtics? Four or five months? They also had to share the ball with Antoine Walker. I would trade Shawn Marion straight up for Paul Pierce, but I don't think I would throw in much else. Hey, you never know with with Danny Ainge in charge of the Celtics. :)

Re: JJ, I would prefer not to give him, Shawn Marion, draft picks, and then some to get one player, but I definitely don't consider him untouchable. Let's not forget that six months ago many of us would have given him away for a sixpack of Keystone. If the Phoenix Suns were able to get a superstar like Kobe Bryant or Tracy McGrady is he going to revert back to his pre Marbury trade days? Don't forget there's also the task of extending him. Right now his value is very high. I don't want to just give him or Shawn Marion away, but IMO I think it should be an option to trade one or both of them.

Joe Mama
 

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Well I don't think that JJ is untradable. He really only shined when he was the primary option. Once Amare asserted himself as the primary option, JJ's shooting went back into the toilet.

Certainly any chance you get to acquire a superstar you should take it, I just don't think that Paul Pierce is that great. He certainly requires the ball to be effective and really dominates it.
 

Joe Mama

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Chris_Sanders said:
Well I don't think that JJ is untradable. He really only shined when he was the primary option. Once Amare asserted himself as the primary option, JJ's shooting went back into the toilet.

Certainly any chance you get to acquire a superstar you should take it, I just don't think that Paul Pierce is that great. He certainly requires the ball to be effective and really dominates it.

I don't think his shooting necessarily "went in the toilet" when Amare returned. In 14 games in March he shot just under 46% from the field. However he shot just under 38% from the field in the last seven games of the season. His play after the trade was encouraging, but he may be worth more in a trade right now than he really is on the court.

Joe Mama
 

Errntknght

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Clearly the jury is still out on JJ but one good sign as the season wound down is that JJ came on strong late in most of the games. Granted there was not much pressure as the results themselves were meaningless except as they impacted our draft position - creating a negative pressure, if anything. We don't know that JJ is susceptible to game pressure but what goes on in his head does affect his play so I'm concerned about the possibility.

I'm rather leery of any trades because it's usually hard to see the impact of a trade on the team. I'm not at all impressed when someone lists a lineup that would result from a trade or sequence of player moves and says "Wow, thats a killer team!" Even when it's not obviously a fantasy, you have to see how the team is going to fit together on both ends of the floor and how it is going to fit the style of play the coach will employ before you have any idea whether its a good team or not. On top of that there are chemistry issues, which are always hard to predict.

I'm not leaning toward trading Marion as much as I was because as much as I dislike him playing auxillary SG instead of SF, he's been passing much better of late and D'Antoni's offense is greatly in need of sharp passing. He's also cut significantly back on throwing up threes. As far as trading him for Paul Pierce straight up, I think you have to seriously consider that. Personally, I'd have to watch a lot of tape before I'd make a call one way or the other - early in his career I watched the Celtics a fair amount and then he was a much better inside player on offense than Shawn is plus a pretty fair passer and rebounder. That PP would be a good fit at SF for a high post offense but now he's much more of a SG, it seems.
 

George O'Brien

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Joe Mama said:
I don't think his shooting necessarily "went in the toilet" when Amare returned. In 14 games in March he shot just under 46% from the field. However he shot just under 38% from the field in the last seven games of the season. His play after the trade was encouraging, but he may be worth more in a trade right now than he really is on the court.

Joe Mama

I don't think Joe would admit it, but his playing 45 minutes a game undoubtedly took away his legs. As the season when on, his shot starting to come up short, which is usually a sign the player is tired. And it wasn't like Joe was able to rest on defense - he usually had the major defensive assignment.

I think JJ is going to continue to improve. Will he become a future all star? I don't think it is out of the question, but I think he is going to be an excellant all round player a key piece of the team the Suns are putting together.
 

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George O'Brien said:
I don't think Joe would admit it, but his playing 45 minutes a game undoubtedly took away his legs.

Am I really that stubborn? Please don't answer that question. :)

In fact I would admit that I completely forgot about how tired JJ looked in the last few games. I can accept that as a reasonable explanation for his numbers dropping in the last handful of games. I still don't think he should be deemed untradable, but that does make me feel better about where he is headed.

Joe Mama
 

George O'Brien

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Joe Mama said:
Am I really that stubborn? Please don't answer that question. :)

In fact I would admit that I completely forgot about how tired JJ looked in the last few games. I can accept that as a reasonable explanation for his numbers dropping in the last handful of games. I still don't think he should be deemed untradable, but that does make me feel better about where he is headed.

Joe Mama

Actually I was thinking of JOE Johnson, but if the shoe fits. :wave:
 
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