Are The Suns Counting on Banks?

[azirish]

In another thread there was discussion that the Suns may simply wait out PJ on the belief that he will not sign with another team. If that's the case, it confirms the suspicion that they are not focused on getting him or any other big as a rotation player. But that leaves only 7 guiys in the rotation, which is not the way Coach D'Antoni does it.

Considering who is left beyond the top seven, (Banks, Marks, Pike, Tucker, and eventually Strawberry), it is not unreasonable to think that imagine are planning to use Banks in the rotation. If true, that will be a remarkable development.

The career of Marcus Banks has been erratic. The 12th pick in 2003, he was immediately traded to the Celtics, but did not do well there. In his first two and a half years his stats:

2003-04 5.9 ppg on 40% shooting and 31.4% for three with 2.2 assists in 17.1 minutes.

2004-05 4.6 ppg on 40.2% and 35.6% for three and 1.9 assists in 14.1 minutes

2005-06 (18 games) 5.5 ppg on 41.3% and 31.6% for three and 1.8 assists in 14.9 minutes

By this point, Banks was considered a bust by the Boston and other east coast reporters. His bad shooting pretty much had him written off as a flop, so his trade to the Wolves was barely noticed in Boston.

However, in Minnesota, he played surprisingly well:

2005-06 (in 40 games with the Wolves) 12.0 ppg, 47.9% and 36.4% for three with 4.7 assists in 30.7 minutes. While more of a combo than a real point guard, he finally looked like a real player. But when he came to the Suns, his career took a big step backward.

The Suns are known for tracking players based on the plus/minus stats when on the court. Does the team improve against the opponent or lose ground? There are many reasons why a guy's plus/minus will be poor (good shooters who cannot defend or guys who make a lot of turnovers), but there is little doubt that bad shooting will hurt. Lst Nobember, Banks shot very badly. What is worse, his overall plus/minus for the season was an awful -13.3 http://www.82games.com/0607/0607PHO.HTM

In November, Banks shot 20 of 59 for 33.9% from the field and just 1 of 8 for three. He averaged 11.7 minutes a game. He made just 1.2 assists per game (0.10 per minute) which was well below the per minute rate of 0.15 assists per minute with the Wolves. In practical terms, Banks shot himself out of the rotation and never worked his way back in.

He shot a little better in Deember, going 9 of 19, but shot only 13 of 33 (39.9%) in January and just 1 of 8 for three. His stats in February actually picked up in the few games he played while Nash was out: 9.1 ppg on 50.8% shooting (32 of 63) in 19.4 minutes. But it wasn't enough to get him playing time the rest of the season as he had only 28 minutes total from then on.

Banks' improved shooting in February did not do anything to improve his trade value. It was widely reported that the Suns tried to trade him and could not get anybody to take him for less than two first round picks. Everyone looked at his plus/minus and knew his reputation from Boston. The Suns could not move him.

It seemed like the Suns had given up on him, but Banks spent the off season working to correct his fatal flaw: poor shooting. And to prove he had made progress, he volunteered to play on the Suns summer leage team which is rare for guy with four years in the leage. But it appears to have been a good move for him.

Summer league does not mean a lot in that the opposition is often quite poor, but Banks demonstrated that he has worked on his shooting. In the only official game, he went 13 of 19 (68.4%) and 4 of 5 for three as he scored 42 points. The next day in a scrimmage against the Pistons, he shot 7 of 8. A few weeks later, the Suns signed Jay Humphries as an assistant coach. Jay said his first priority would be to work with Banks.

Have the Suns changed their view of Banks from a liability to a rotation player? Probably, but not entirely. Humphries suggested that Banks has struggled with the transition to the Suns style. He did not elaborate, but this is probably that the Suns focus on "find the open man/shoot if you are open" style which is very different from the "beat your man off the dribble" style most teams use.

Banks can beat his man off the dribble. The key is to integrate it into the offense the way Barbosa does, rather than getting caught dribbling around on the perimeter. But if he can, he could be a big part of the Suns team this year.

One of the reasons the Suns signed Banks is that he is good man on man defender. He's not only very quick but also very strong. When matching up against the Spurs' Tony Parker, this is something the Suns really need. But this can only happen if Banks is able to shoot.

If Banks can become the guy the Suns thought they signed a year ago, it could change the way the Suns play. Banks and Barbosa are two of the fastest players in the NBA and so quick few defenders can stay in front of them. But even if a team has someone capable of staying in front on one of these guys, no one has the ability to stay in front of both.

 

[Sunsman44]

In another thread there was discussion that the Suns may simply wait out PJ on the belief that he will not sign with another team. If that's the case, it confirms the suspicion that they are not focused on getting him or any other big as a rotation player. But that leaves only 7 guiys in the rotation, which is not the way Coach D'Antoni does it.

Wrong. It is the way coach D'Antoni does it. He only plays 7 guys. The 8th player (Kurt) usually gets spot minutes every other night - usually around 15 minutes.

If this is the case, 15 minutes off the bench for Banks as 8th man would definately not be a "significant development."

D'Antoni and the Suns are doomed going into the season with only 1 big man named Amare and a horrid 7-man rotation. This all assuming Amare, Bell, and Hill's knees don't flare up and Diaw and Nash's backs don't act up.

If this club doesn't get their act together to sign another big (PJ) and another wing (Posey), they will be lottery bound and would give Seattle some sweet pickins. Unless your name is the San Antonio Spurs, you ought to buy yourself into a championship because you've been giving away lottery picks left and right.

Dig deep into your wallet, Sarver, or else u have yourself a lottery team next year.

Nuff said about the pathetic Suns offseason...

 

[BC867]

Besides, Banks was brought here to be a backup Point Guard, which he isn't . . . and neither is Leandro.

If Grant Hill and Boris Diaw can be effective Point Forwards, as was Scottie Pippin with Michael and a small shooting 1-Guard, it just might work.

But not without 2 big guys to take the (foul) pressure off Amare. One to start alongside him and one to come off the bench behind both of them.

And the Trade-wrecking Matrix gone.

Think about Kevin Garnett, Amare and Grant Hill as the starting front court in a push for one or two championships. 'Too late now.

So now what are we gonna do? The Guard situation is not our biggest concern.

 

[Sunsman44]

Besides, Banks was brought here to be a backup Point Guard, which he isn't . . . and neither is Leandro.

If Grant Hill and Boris Diaw can be effective Point Forwards, as was Scottie Pippin with Michael and a small shooting 1-Guard, it just might work.

But not without 2 big guys to take the (foul) pressure off Amare. One to start alongside him and one to come off the bench behind both of them.

And the Trade-wrecking Matrix gone.

Think about Kevin Garnett, Amare and Grant Hill as the starting front court in a push for one or two championships. 'Too late now.

So now what are we gonna do? The Guard situation is not our biggest concern.

I feel you.

Suns have way too many problems. Frontline and backcourt.

They signed a 35-year-old thinking he is superman.

They are now going after a 38-year-old thinking he is the solution to all their problems. They are on their bended knees waiting for an answer instead of getting out there and signing an athletic youngster big such as Ely.

The organization is doing an extremely poor job convicing us realist fans that what they have done is a great job.

They have no money and everything they do is financially related. Yet, they spin the story as if they really wanted to keep Banks, think Marks is the greatest center of all time, and think Grant Hill is going to play 82 games. And they feel they don't need any bigs.

I'd love to see Diaw at center during the playoffs. I'd love to see them get smoked just to prove my point.

 

[dodie53]

i hope the suns don't count on banks..

they might get dissapointed again..

 

[Bufalay]

I'd love to see Diaw at center during the playoffs. I'd love to see them get smoked just to prove my point.

Rewatch the 06 playoffs then. Dude was probably the best center in the league in those playoffs. I hate Sarver and D'antoni just as much as you do, but your analysis is obnoxious and weak.

 

[myrondizzo]

Wrong. It is the way coach D'Antoni does it. He only plays 7 guys. The 8th player (Kurt) usually gets spot minutes every other night - usually around 15 minutes.

If this is the case, 15 minutes off the bench for Banks as 8th man would definately not be a "significant development."

D'Antoni and the Suns are doomed going into the season with only 1 big man named Amare and a horrid 7-man rotation. This all assuming Amare, Bell, and Hill's knees don't flare up and Diaw and Nash's backs don't act up.

If this club doesn't get their act together to sign another big (PJ) and another wing (Posey), they will be lottery bound and would give Seattle some sweet pickins. Unless your name is the San Antonio Spurs, you ought to buy yourself into a championship because you've been giving away lottery picks left and right.

Dig deep into your wallet, Sarver, or else u have yourself a lottery team next year.

Nuff said about the pathetic Suns offseason...

roflmao

 

[arwillan]

this years suns team as is is still better than the team that made it to the WCF without amare AND KT hands down. you know, that team that nearly took the mavericks to 7 games in that series but collapsed a 17 point lead? so imagine that team with one of, if not THE, most dominant front court players in the league (amare) and a veteran who still has some juice left and can take some ball handling pressure off nash and you have this years team. yes they certainly could get better even without pj, but come on people this is not the end nor the beginning of the end. the suns will be fine this year. fine doesnt mean title necessarily, but it means fine.

 

[azirish]

Obviously the Suns are counting on Diaw to return to his 2005-06 offensive form but with better defense. In another thread, I noted that in 2005-06 Diaw was the 13th best assist man per 48 minutes in the league (among guys with significant minutes), well ahead of Tony Paker.

Having a "big" with Diaw's passing skills as the focus of the second team (along with Hill who played a lot of PG back when he was with the Pistons) could permit the Suns to use Barbosa and Banks "off the ball". If Banks has turned the corner as a shooter, this could be a very dynamic offense.

 

[Errntknght]

I imagine some of the Suns coaches have a degree of hope, if not outright optimism, regarding Banks but it seems very unlikely that D'Antoni is counting on him being a rotation player.

The evidence is pretty strong that Marcus comes into a game offensively cold and takes some playing time to get warmed up. You put that together with Mike's quick hook and it doesn't look like Banks has much chance unless there are some injuries ahead of him. I know its possible that its primarily a confidence issue and that somehow he will overcome it to become the kind of shooter/scorer Mike likes to put on the floor - possible but improbable, IMO.

I'd say that Banks best shot at making the rotation is to focus on defense and work his butt off at it - and the minute he gets on the floor to jump right into some hard nosed defending. He needs to make some impact in short stints or he won't ever get promoted to longer ones where he has the chance to get his offense going. I'm assuming that PG skills will upgrade some with his year of experience with the team but I don't expect a real blossoming in that aspect of the game.

I do hope D'Antoni follows through on his stated aim of increasing the team's tempo even more. If he's serious about that he's going to have expand the use of his bench considerably. Personally, I think its more likely that he'll revert to panic mode in trying to win every single game but, who knows, its possible that he learned something last year about developing a bench.

I do like what I've read about our two rookies - primarily the fact they are supposed to have defensive ability and mindset. (We heard that about Barbosa, too, but he proved to be a weak defender and improved very slowly to average.) I'm not too bothered by their lack of shooting skills - it could almost be a plus if it means they forcefully attack the basket. Besides they're supposedly athletic enough to contribute in the running game.

One sign that Mike is serious about the faster tempo is his apparent lack of concern about depth in the front court. I don't think the team is a lock to go deep in the playoffs playing small ball but, to tell the truth, I wouldn't mind too much if only Mike would shuttle in bench players freely so the team could play at a scorching pace for 48 minutes. I'd rather win a championship but it would make the year interesting to see the team playing extreme uptempo.

What I'm afraid I'll see is a very half-hearted try on Mike's part, parceling out tiny bits of PT to one guy then another and never settling on anything resembling the rotation thats needed - and with the regulars being run ragged yet again. That would make it a nauseating season for me.

 

[Mainstreet]

One sign that Mike is serious about the faster tempo is his apparent lack of concern about depth in the front court. I don't think the team is a lock to go deep in the playoffs playing small ball but, to tell the truth, I wouldn't mind too much if only Mike would shuttle in bench players freely so the team could play at a scorching pace for 48 minutes. I'd rather win a championship but it would make the year interesting to see the team playing extreme uptempo.

I believe the Suns can win a Championship playing small ball. IMO, the key to doing so is to have a quality roster of at least 9 or 10 players deep that can substitute into the uptempo style without a significant drop off of quality. The key is to keep fresh legs on the court to push the tempo. I seen glimpses of this style working even with SA when the Suns dedicated themselves to pushing the ball on every play even when the break was not there.

Now do I want the Suns to pick up a couple of big men that can play a role and give fouls?... you bet. I would like to have this additional edge or insurance so to speak. One can never have enough rebounding or defense.

 

[azirish]

IMHO, the best way to up the tempo is through a very active defense. Even if it doesn't create turnovers, it pushes the opponent to shoot more quickly. The reason most teams do not keep it up is that it burns up so much energy, so going deeper into the bench becomes necessary.

Ideally, Banks could become a key to that style. If he can press the opponent's PG so that Barbosa can play the passing lanes, they could create major havoc. IMHO, Barbosa is not strong enough to be a great man defender, but with his reach and quickness should become a real threat fo make steals which are almost automatic baskets.

Strawberry is supposed to be an even better defender and possibly a better playmaker, but would not be the offensive threat that Banks could be.

 

[Errntknght]

George,

IMHO, the best way to up the tempo is through a very active defense.

I have to disagree that it is the best way to up the tempo, but it could raise it some more - assuming the active defense is also effective defense. Teams won't have much impetus to shoot early in the shot clock if they are having success against our active defense in the half court. I'd be much more sanguine about an active D if we had a coach that knew how to implement good scrambling rotations.

Strawberry is supposed to be an even better defender and possibly a better playmaker, but would not be the offensive threat that Banks could be.

We're pretty much going to wait and see what eventuates with both players before making a judgment - heck, a lot of the outcome could depend on what D'Antoni does with them.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

Wrong. It is the way coach D'Antoni does it. He only plays 7 guys. The 8th player (Kurt) usually gets spot minutes every other night - usually around 15 minutes.

If this is the case, 15 minutes off the bench for Banks as 8th man would definately not be a "significant development."

D'Antoni and the Suns are doomed going into the season with only 1 big man named Amare and a horrid 7-man rotation. This all assuming Amare, Bell, and Hill's knees don't flare up and Diaw and Nash's backs don't act up.

If this club doesn't get their act together to sign another big (PJ) and another wing (Posey), they will be lottery bound and would give Seattle some sweet pickins. Unless your name is the San Antonio Spurs, you ought to buy yourself into a championship because you've been giving away lottery picks left and right.

Dig deep into your wallet, Sarver, or else u have yourself a lottery team next year.

Nuff said about the pathetic Suns offseason...

I feel both enlightened, and as if I have been hit by an intellectual Voltswagon.

 

[azirish]

George,

I have to disagree that it is the best way to up the tempo, but it could raise it some more - assuming the active defense is also effective defense. Teams won't have much impetus to shoot early in the shot clock if they are having success against our active defense in the half court. I'd be much more sanguine about an active D if we had a coach that knew how to implement good scrambling rotations.

I agree. I'm as concerned as anybody that the Suns speed defense has never been all that well organized. Clearly if they are going to play small, they cannot afford the sort of lazy rotations they have had over the D'Antoni era.

In the NCAA tournament I was very impressed with the way UCLA played defense despite a very small lineup. Everyone was in position every time and their anticipation was outstanding. Whenever they'd trap someone, everyone else was in denial mode which took away the passing lanes and led to turnovers. Eventually they were overwhelmed by the vastly superior Gators, but that was not as much due to their defense but that the Gators defense shut them down on the other end.

I'd be a lot more confortable if the Suns had a speed defense guru. But unless Humphries is better at this than anyone has shown, I'm concerned they will slip even more on defense. But they do have the people to make it work if they can get everybody to buy into it.