Are we that much worse than last year?

Chris_Sanders

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Marion is playing tentative and looks to be a poor third option...definitely not worth the money he is making.

Penny is buried on the bench. If last year didn't proven to F***ing Joke (FJ) that Penny is pivotal to this team...

Casey is eating into Penny's minutes for some obtuse reason.

Are we this much worse or is the coaching this much worse?
 

elindholm

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The ironic thing about Marion is that he's taking many fewer three-point shots, and I think we'd all agree that's a good thing. But somehow that has taken him completely out of his offense. He's never been good at creating his own shot, and now that he is a reduced threat from beyond the arc (for the simple reason that he hangs out there less than he used to), he just doesn't have much room to operate.

I also think the Suns' defense is worse than last year's. They used a gimmicky trapping swarming defense against the Spurs in the playoffs, and it was pretty effective -- but they had to try something, because otherwise they would simply have been eaten alive by the league MVP. Do they have to play a gimmicky defense against every team in the league? I wouldn't think so, but that's what they do: constant double teaming, "bigs" jumping out high in exactly the way that Errntknght hates, playing the man with the ball far to one side in order to give him a driving lane into where the help is supposed to be, etc. It's as though the Suns simply don't believe they can be an adequate defensive team straight-up.

Somehow, Marion and Stoudemire have to step up. Otherwise, it's going to be a very long year.
 

thegrahamcrackr

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I think we had a similar record this time last year though. So who knows. With the vets coming in late to training camp, this is basically their pre season. Give it another 4 or 5 games before panicing.
 

hcsilla

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Originally posted by elindholm
The ironic thing about Marion is that he's taking many fewer three-point shots, and I think we'd all agree that's a good thing.
I don't know if everyone else would agree on this but I definitely would not.
He had .387 3P-shooting accuracy last season which is decent, IMO.

Actually Marion has basically the same stats as last season.
His 3P-accuracy is a bit worse, his FT-percentage is a bit better, he get a bit less rebounds, steals and assists in a bit less PT.
But in this bit less PT he gets more blocks and less turnovers as well.

I don't see any significant difference in his effectiveness this season comparing to last season.
 

hcsilla

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Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
I think we had a similar record this time last year though.
Yes, we had.

I believe we were 4-5 at this point of last season so probably it didn't happen any tragical thing we just had a bit higher expectations concerning the Suns.
 

creed

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Originally posted by Chris_Sanders

Penny is buried on the bench. If last year didn't proven to F***ing Joke (FJ) that Penny is pivotal to this team...

Casey is eating into Penny's minutes for some obtuse reason.

Penny stays on the bench because when he comes off the bench he stinks. And he stinks as a starter too. The fact that our record last year was better with him in the lineup is because we were so short handed that any additional help made a difference. We had no bench what-so-ever so in tragic desperate times like that Penny had an affect because in close games his puny output made a difference.
 

fordronken

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Re: Re: Are we that much worse than last year?

Originally posted by creed
Penny stays on the bench because when he comes off the bench he stinks. And he stinks as a starter too. The fact that our record last year was better with him in the lineup is because we were so short handed that any additional help made a difference. We had no bench what-so-ever so in tragic desperate times like that Penny had an affect because in close games his puny output made a difference.

Did you actually watch any of the games last year or are you basing this on national media coverage from 2001?
 

creed

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I watched every game last season. Maybe you need to refresh my memory and show me some Penny stats to show where he was a consistant force....or even a part time one. He had a good game here and there but nowhere near enough to be considered good.
 
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thegrahamcrackr

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Creed has a good point. The record discrepency was a big deal because we had no depth at the 2g. We had JJ covering for penny, with CJ behind him. And we all know how awesome Casey was last year.


I still think the vets like Penny will click in more in a few weeks. Remember Frank was implementing his "new offense" this year, and the veterans missed the training camp intro to it.
 

cheng

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Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr

Remember Frank was implementing his "new offense" this year, and the veterans missed the training camp intro to it.

you mean motion offense or small ball? actually I think what he calls "skill ball" is small ball motion offense. and we all know no set plays are allowed in motion offense.
 
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PhiLLmattiC

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the record was kind of different last year because they started off like 0-3 and thats when they decided to put penny in the starting line up and went something like 3-1. So there is a difference between the records now and last year.
 
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Chris_Sanders

Chris_Sanders

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Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
Creed has a good point. The record discrepency was a big deal because we had no depth at the 2g. We had JJ covering for penny, with CJ behind him. And we all know how awesome Casey was last year.

Well, my point is still 100% valid....

Casey is playing 15 minutes a game and contributing 4.6 points and 1.5 rebounds in that span...
 

arthurracoon

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I think we miss Bo more than we think we do...

Who led that swarming full court press defense? Bo.

Bo won us a couple of games single handedly last year.
 

Chaplin

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Originally posted by arthurracoon
I think we miss Bo more than we think we do...

Who led that swarming full court press defense? Bo.

Bo won us a couple of games single handedly last year.
But it's not the defense that's hurting us, this year, it's ALL offense.
 

Joe Mama

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Originally posted by Chaplin
But it's not the defense that's hurting us, this year, it's ALL offense.

Bingo! Last season the Phoenix Suns opponents were averaging 94 ppg on 43.8% shooting. This season they are averaging 92 ppg on 43.3% shooting. The defense has been just fine overall. In fact last night it was very good. The Rockets did score 90 points, but they shot just 38.8% from the field.

No, the Phoenix Suns problems this season are mostly offensive. Last year they averaged 95.5 ppg on 44.3% shooting. This year it has dropped to 91.3 ppg on just 41.8% shooting.

That said, I do realize that against Utah and especially against Atlanta the defense struggled. The Phoenix Suns have always had trouble with Utah's offense. That did not surprise me. I'll give you Atlanta though. The defensive game planning was stupid and poorly executed. The lineups were bad. IMO that loss falls directly on Frank Johnson.

Joe Mama
 

fordronken

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Originally posted by creed
I watched every game last season. Maybe you need to refresh my memory and show me some Penny stats to show where he was a consistant force....or even a part time one. He had a good game here and there but nowhere near enough to be considered good.

I'm not saying he was a consistant anything. Statistically, he didn't do much, but he was instrumental in setting up plays(particularly with Amare) and stabilizing the team overall down the stretch. With Steph, in a lot of games, he either took over the offense or he didn't. I can't remember many games(despite our numerous comebacks last year) in which Steph set up his teammates down the stretch for wins.
 

jbeecham

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Penny isn't setting up anyone this year. All he is doing is shooting the ball pretty much every time he touches it. It doesn't even matter who he's on the floor with. He can be out there with Marbury, Marion, Amare & White or Voshkul and yet he still seems to think he's the 1st option (while shooting 38% and mostly taking long outside shots). Right now I'd rather have Casey on the floor.
 

arthurracoon

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Originally posted by Chaplin
But it's not the defense that's hurting us, this year, it's ALL offense.

But if you remember last year, our offense was explosive when our defense was explosive. Our defense was explosive when Bo spearheaded our full court press.

We had runs when our full court press scored 8 points.
 

Chaplin

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Originally posted by jbeecham
Penny isn't setting up anyone this year. All he is doing is shooting the ball pretty much every time he touches it. It doesn't even matter who he's on the floor with. He can be out there with Marbury, Marion, Amare & White or Voshkul and yet he still seems to think he's the 1st option (while shooting 38% and mostly taking long outside shots). Right now I'd rather have Casey on the floor.

LOL!

This complaining about Penny is ridiculous. The guy right now has the Dan Langhi role of last year, and you're all complaining about him? If he performs badly on more than 9 minutes a game, then talk about him, but he is the LEAST of our problems, even though everyone on this board is obssessed about him!
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
I still think the vets like Penny will click in more in a few weeks. Remember Frank was implementing his "new offense" this year, and the veterans missed the training camp intro to it.

sorry, just don't buy this. ALL the teams with veterans had to go through the same thing, and a lot of them had NEW COACHES or NEW PLAYERS, both of which we did not really have to deal with. we just stink right now. no, or little passion. enough making excuses. i have much greater expectations of this team. it SHOULD be better than last year. by a lot? no, probably not. but at least 4 games better in my opinion. so far, i don't see it. i'm worried that a poor season will spark steph's anger or incite a riot in amare's mom's head. neither of which our young team can withstand.
 

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