ARI @ BAL – Heroes and Goats

[Chris_Sanders]

In stats Fitz will finish in the top 10 in yards this year barring anything crazy but K9 is right he is probably a 20ish receiver now in the term of game breaking ability. If this offense had one of those top tier guys that can run routes / catch like Fitz and take the top off the defense...wow

 

[MrYeahBut]

I don't think I've seen any Card's QB since Warner who could put that fade where Fitz can catch it with any regularity. Even Palmer couldn't seem to make it, jmo

 

[Crimson Warrior]

In stats Fitz will finish in the top 10 in yards this year barring anything crazy but K9 is right he is probably a 20ish receiver now in the term of game breaking ability. If this offense had one of those top tier guys that can run routes / catch like Fitz and take the top off the defense...wow

Yeah I was hopeful that Izzy or Butler might have filled the role that you mention. And don't get me wrong, I love how Kirk and Fitz are both playing.

But I think we need an OBJ type if we're really going to make this a top five offense.

And Christ, when was the last time we had a good TE? I mean really good? Freaking Novacek in 95? 25 years ago? And don't say Leonard Pope.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Some people might argue that. You might think that, but, if the play fails, for whatever reason, then is it a good call?
One might argue that a good call is one that has success.

So if the best receiver on the team is wide open, the qb hits him in the hands with the ball and he drops it, it was a bad call?

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Yeah I was hopeful that Izzy or Butler might have filled the role that you mention. And don't get me wrong, I love how Kirk and Fitz are both playing.

But I think we need OBJ type if we're really going to make this a top five offense.

And Christ, when was the last time we had a good TE? I mean really good? Freaking Novacek in 95? 25 years ago? And don't say Leonard Pope.

Not to compare us as a team to the Pats, but they have had some amazing offenses with some pretty average receivers. If Murray can start getting some things going with his feet as well I could absolutely see this being a very dynamic offense.

 

[Chopper0080]

You will lose a lot of games with him as your #1 receiver, just like we've lost a lot of games with late-model Larry Fitzgerald as our #1 receiver. Our receiving corps needs to get better at the top.

I'm open to having my mind changed, but people are seeing something different than I am if they look at Christian Kirk and think that he's in the same class as Odell Beckham or Julio Jones. I don't think he can ever be a Top 10 wideout.

You're okay if he's a #2, but you'd prefer that he's a #3.

This argument is why I have heard rumors that the Cardinals will be looking at Jerry Jeudy and CeeDee Lamb in the first round of next year's draft. (I don't like it, but I see the rationale)

 

[Chopper0080]

Fitz has been stellar so far I thought. I would think off the top of my head Kirk would be in the top 30-40 WR in the NFL but id have to look at it. He is 32 in yards so far this year but that doesn't mean much, its only week 2. I say lets give him more than his rookie year to show what he has.

(BTW fitz is #8 right now in yards. Fitz #12 in receptions, kirk 32)

So far I think he is handily a #2 WR but we shall see.

If you want a testament to Kingsbury coaching and scheme, look at Fitzgerald's production.

 

[Chopper0080]

Not to compare us as a team to the Pats, but they have had some amazing offenses with some pretty average receivers. If Murray can start getting some things going with his feet as well I could absolutely see this being a very dynamic offense.

7 years down the road when both Kliff and Kyler are on their second contract with the Cardinals, we can take that approach.

 

[DVontel]

If Andrew Thomas or Tristan Wirfs are still on the board & we pick CeeDee Lamb or Jerry Jeudy, that’s not going to sit well with me, & I love both those guys.

 

[Chopper0080]

If Andrew Thomas or Tristan Wirfs are still on the board & we pick CeeDee Lamb or Jerry Jeudy, that’s not going to sit well with me, & I love both those guys.

I feel the same way. I think Thomas and Wirfs are special players at a priority position. That being said, it won't shock me if Keim pays Humphries 12 mil per year in FA and then takes another WR.

 

[DVontel]

I feel the same way. I think Thomas and Wirfs are special players at a priority position. That being said, it won't shock me if Keim pays Humphries 12 mil per year in FA and then takes another WR.

Keim can do that & still draft Wirfs. Wirfs primarily plays RT.

 

[Chopper0080]

I like the idea of a couple guys. The one I love, but is not really a great value, is Isaiah Simmons out of Clemson. He reminds me a ton of Thomas Davis and I think he is really versatile in today's NFL, but I shudder at adding a ILB/S hybrid will all of our other needs at premium positions.

Derrick Brown is also very interesting inside.

 

[Chopper0080]

Keim can do that & still draft Wirfs. Wirfs primarily plays RT.

He could, but I don't think he will. I see how he talks about the Justin Murray addition and how Kingsbury is nonchalant about Gilbert being out and it makes me believe they think mediocre OTs are all they need in this offense.

 

[DVontel]

He could, but I don't think he will. I see how he talks about the Justin Murray addition and how Kingsbury is nonchalant about Gilbert being out and it makes me believe they think mediocre OTs are all they need in this offense.

Just show him Wirfs’ PFF rating & he’ll think twice.

 

[Chopper0080]

Just show him Wirfs’ PFF rating & he’ll think twice.

lol...fair enough

 

[SoonerLou]

Before the season I thought there was no way you stop Murray from inside the ten. The good news is that this seems pretty clearly self-inflicted and correctable.

Only when Kyler buys in or is convinced to use his mobility.

Perfect example here of him not keeping the ball even those he had a clear shot at the endzone. at 2:14

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Took till about midseason for Kyler to start really running and thats what got him the Heisman.

 

[Chopper0080]

Just show him Wirfs’ PFF rating & he’ll think twice.

PFF's latest mock draft has us taking Wirfs...

 

[DVontel]

PFF's latest mock draft has us taking Wirfs...

Love it.

However, if we’re not in range for either of them, watch out for Lucas Niang out of TCU. Not as polished as those two, but he’s really good & I expect his stock to rise some more throughout the season. Also plays RT primarily just like Wirfs.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Not to compare us as a team to the Pats, but they have had some amazing offenses with some pretty average receivers. If Murray can start getting some things going with his feet as well I could absolutely see this being a very dynamic offense.

You're right of course. About the Pats. But they also have the greatest of all time at QB. Plus they had Gronk at TE for the last eight years or whatever...

Look, I'm not saying that, by the end of this year, we won't be a good, or even a very good offense. I think that's very possible (if the oline stays healthy).

But I am saying that, if we really want to run opposing defenses off the field, and terrorize opposing secondaries, we need more at the WR and TE position than we have now.

 

[kerouac9]

I think the first fade play to Fitz was a great call because it got him into a 1 on 1 coverage with a smaller corner, but Murray just didn't throw it close enough to give Fitz a chance at it. Good call that got a good matchup, but wasn't executed well enough by the players.

Tough red zone sequence all game long. None of them really had any chance. In the red zone, people are just rolling up on Fitz and jamming him. It basically exposes all his liabilities as a player today.

 

[gimpy]

So if the best receiver on the team is wide open, the qb hits him in the hands with the ball and he drops it, it was a bad call?

Which is the better call? That one or three yards run up the middle? It's now second and ten or second and seven? What if you only needed two yards for a first down?

 

[cardsfanmd]

Which is the better call? That one or three yards run up the middle? It's now second and ten or second and seven? What if you only needed two yards for a first down?

Terrible argument. If the execution fails, both plays are doomed.

 

[gimpy]

To you it's a terrible argument, not to me.

 

[Red on White]

Still getting my head around language

Goat is good here... (greatest of all time)

 

[CFLredzoned]

The plays we are running are not the only issue in the red zone. It also comes down to the players not being 100% in sync yet. Also Murray is still learning the NFL game and part of that is the different looks he sees in the red zone. It's easy to call out KK for his play calling with the redzone futility, but the fact is that if some of the plays he called were executed perfectly and thus resulted in some TDs than no one would be questioning those play calls.

That's not to say that the play calls haven't been an issue, but it is very tough to know right now just how much of it is the calls and how much of it is the players not executing well enough.

What Warner was saying isn't that the play calls were bad in the red zone. He thinks Murray doesn't have multiple options to go to based on what the defense presents. He says it looks like Kyler has the play that's called and that's what he sticks with, even if the defense is schemed for it.