Arizona Basketball 2019-2020

[Dback Jon]

BTW - look at the job Wayne Tinkle is doing at Oregon State. Successful at Montana, now with the Beavers.


As for Damon - he took over a tough spot - probation and reduction in Scholarships. He's done a great job rebuilding the program.

 

[GatorAZ]

They have a great facility, a massive following and lots of built in recruiting advantages, and most importantly... money talks... as long as they're willing to pay like an elite program, I honestly don't think it will be a problem.

Will they be able to target the right coaches? That is a bigger concern.

Money talking is part of the problem. The AD is in debt and Heeke has distanced himself from boosters. The program is in worse shape than it was in 2009.

 

[GatorAZ]

BTW - look at the job Wayne Tinkle is doing at Oregon State. Successful at Montana, now with the Beavers.


As for Damon - he took over a tough spot - probation and reduction in Scholarships. He's done a great job rebuilding the program.

They’re pretty good this year despite not having much size or a PG. A likable guy like that who had success in the NBA will have some recruiting advantages... He’s not my first choice but I wouldn’t rule anything out if Miller is a goner.

 

[Russ Smith]

BTW - look at the job Wayne Tinkle is doing at Oregon State. Successful at Montana, now with the Beavers.


As for Damon - he took over a tough spot - probation and reduction in Scholarships. He's done a great job rebuilding the program.

Tinkle is a good coach but he basically built that program by signing his son and hiring Stephen Thompson to get his 2 sons. Same thing with USC, off to a great start but basically done by hiring the father of 2 recruits(one coming next year) who also happened to be the AAU coach for Okongwu. Not against the rules of course but not really sustainable unless you change coaches regularly. I fully expect both to drop off as those guys move on.

For UA I get that the program is probably facing sanctions but I honestly think the perception outside of Arizona is they should have fired Miller earlier, that keeping him was sort of a we don't think he did anything wrong statement. I think if they fire him now, AND sanctions come, Arizona is going to come off really looking bad. We were ok with the allegations when we thought he was going to win big but when he didn't he had to go. It's a weird situation where if they get sanctions they almost have to hope that Miller is somewhat directly implicated so they can say hey he lied to us. If it's just Book and they fire Miller they have to explain why they didn't do that 2 years ago knowing Book had done wrong.

UA still has a great fan base, have been good for years, you don't have to worry about academics costing you players(like Stanford). It'd still be a good job unless the sanctions are much worse than I expect they will be.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Money talking is part of the problem. The AD is in debt and Heeke has distanced himself from boosters. The program is in worse shape than it was in 2009.

There's always money to be found for basketball with a few calls. Not the case with football (at least compared to most of their peers) and non-profit sports.

I made the Howland comparison a few months ago. Basically both coaches need total defensive buy-in to compete at the highest level because they are control freaks who will always have offensively challenged teams. Extremely difficult to put that together with one-and-done rosters composed mostly of West Coast players.

 

[1Sun]

There's always money to be found for basketball with a few calls. Not the case with football (at least compared to most of their peers) and non-profit sports.

I made the Howland comparison a few months ago. Basically both coaches need total defensive buy-in to compete at the highest level because they are control freaks who will always have offensively challenged teams. Extremely difficult to put that together with one-and-done rosters composed mostly of West Coast players.

And when there's no defensive buy-in, it can get very ugly very fast, as we are seeing now...

 

[Russ Smith]

There's always money to be found for basketball with a few calls. Not the case with football (at least compared to most of their peers) and non-profit sports.

I made the Howland comparison a few months ago. Basically both coaches need total defensive buy-in to compete at the highest level because they are control freaks who will always have offensively challenged teams. Extremely difficult to put that together with one-and-done rosters composed mostly of West Coast players.

I think they made the same mistake. Ben couldn't get over the hump in the final 4 so he changed recruiting trying to get more offensive skill and those kids wouldn't buy in defensively. And of course he had the 2008 recruiting class which was so good on paper and so bad in reality because none of them but Lee were buying in. Miller has done the same thing, when UCLA had the Magic recruiting pipeline and the Magic had the best WC players, Miller went national. The result was going after kids he didn't know as well, kids who didn't buy in, kids who were mercenaries, and indirectly led to Book doing what he did. Kobi Simmons and Alkins those were the classic examples for me of kids Miller went after he wouldn't have in the past. Alkins bought in, terrific player, worked his butt off but apparently the guy around him who was allegedly part of the FBI case. Simmons just didn't care about anything but getting to the NBA, he didn't buy in, didn't work hard, and then was gone.

I think the freshmen this year are "better" kids, they're not going to get UA in NCAA trouble, they're not selfish etc but it's hard to get a group of freshmen to play defense the way Miller wants it played. Calipari has found the magic compromise I let you have freedom on offense if you buy in on defense, Coach K has found it some years not others, Miller hasn't really found it. The perfect kid for Miller was Gordon, elite athlete, great and willing defender, and good enough on offense to be a lottery pick. Stanley Johnson was probably a guy they hoped would be similar and while he was good, he just didn't buy in defensively to the level Gordon did.

It's just not that easy now the best kids on the WC right now all have "issues", be it wanting to play pro(Jalen Green) or other things. But when you start wading into the national scene you take other risks.

 

[1Sun]

I think they made the same mistake. Ben couldn't get over the hump in the final 4 so he changed recruiting trying to get more offensive skill and those kids wouldn't buy in defensively. And of course he had the 2008 recruiting class which was so good on paper and so bad in reality because none of them but Lee were buying in. Miller has done the same thing, when UCLA had the Magic recruiting pipeline and the Magic had the best WC players, Miller went national. The result was going after kids he didn't know as well, kids who didn't buy in, kids who were mercenaries, and indirectly led to Book doing what he did. Kobi Simmons and Alkins those were the classic examples for me of kids Miller went after he wouldn't have in the past. Alkins bought in, terrific player, worked his butt off but apparently the guy around him who was allegedly part of the FBI case. Simmons just didn't care about anything but getting to the NBA, he didn't buy in, didn't work hard, and then was gone.

I think the freshmen this year are "better" kids, they're not going to get UA in NCAA trouble, they're not selfish etc but it's hard to get a group of freshmen to play defense the way Miller wants it played. Calipari has found the magic compromise I let you have freedom on offense if you buy in on defense, Coach K has found it some years not others, Miller hasn't really found it. The perfect kid for Miller was Gordon, elite athlete, great and willing defender, and good enough on offense to be a lottery pick. Stanley Johnson was probably a guy they hoped would be similar and while he was good, he just didn't buy in defensively to the level Gordon did.

It's just not that easy now the best kids on the WC right now all have "issues", be it wanting to play pro(Jalen Green) or other things. But when you start wading into the national scene you take other risks.

All excellent points, but I think the issue is simpler. Miller's Bobby Knight style approach doesn't get through to today's teens and is actually a turn-off, to the point where his players not only don't develop, but rather regress...

 

[Russ Smith]

All excellent points, but I think the issue is simpler. Miller's Bobby Knight style approach doesn't get through to today's teens and is actually a turn-off, to the point where his players not only don't develop, but rather regress...

I think it's because of who he's recruiting though. As a UCLA fan we're getting that test with Cronin. 9 straight NCAA's at Cincy with 3 and occasional 4 star kids who get better every year, buy in and defend their butts off. UCLA has no 5 stars but a bunch of 4 stars but they had a coach who didn't stress defense and now they have a coach who does, I think just now some of them are starting to buy in and some are tuning out and will leave. The result is an unwatchable team with some horrible losses this year. doesn't mean I think Cronin was a bad hire just means I don't think he's going to win big if he recruits the same kids Alford did(and similarly kids that Miller is recruiting) I think kids will be unhappy and leave. He needs to get his kids. Miller went through that and took the next step but couldn't get over the hump and then the whole WC recruiting changed.

I have no idea what Ayton did or didn't do but the notion DeAndre Ayton might bring NCAA and eligibility baggage with him certainly surprised nobody, I think Miller thought if I'm ever going to win an NC that's the kind of kid who can put me over the top I'm going to roll the dice. That doesn't mean I believe Miller handed him cash it just means I believe Miller was willing to accept that the kid probably was getting paid by someone, and just take the chance it wouldn't bite him in the butt, much the way Coach K did with Bagley and Zion.

I also think recruiting is going to be very different in a couple of years. If the NBA changes the age limit rule and the NCAA really does start cracking down on eligibility and AAU and shoe companies I think the way everyone recruits will change. Then I think we'll see more 3-4 year kids again. I honestly think if I had to pick one Pac 12 coach best situated to handle that it would be UW and Hopkins. Plays a zone most don't, the longer you're there the better you get at that zone. I think his days at Syracuse plus his WC ties and the talent in the area he's in etc he has a chance to get kids who will stick around long enough to learn that zone and they can do quite well.

My guess is USC and UA get an NCAA hit, UA probably moreso because they played everyone. Miller goes, I think Enfield bought himself another year if this year continues to go well but again unless Mobley is going to continue to get kids, even ones not living in his house, their recruiting might not hold up after the NCAA hits them.

When the dust settles who knows who's on top, I hope it's UCLA as a UCLA fan but certainly wouldn't be surprised if it's UW or someone else.

 

[1Sun]

https://247sports.com/college/arizo...se-into-how-basketball-has-changed-142221972/

Well, at least Miller recognizes that basketball has changed over the years. The problem is that he hasn't changed his coaching style and approach to adapt to that...

 

[1Sun]

Final score was okay, but this game they gave up 49 points in the second half to a bad offensive team.

This team has no heart. The sooner Sean Miller is gone, the better.

 

[TJ]

LOL @ Oregon losing you Wazzu.
College basketball is weird

 

[1Sun]

LOL @ Oregon losing you Wazzu.
College basketball is weird

Just wait until we go up there...

 

[GatorAZ]

We back F4 or bust!

 

[1Sun]

We back F4 or bust!

By being outscored 49-41 in the second half at home against an awful Utah team?

 

[Russ Smith]

LOL @ Oregon losing you Wazzu.
College basketball is weird

WSU is really well coached this year. He did a good job at USF and is doing it at WSU too, they force a bunch of turnovers and Elleby is really good. They aren't the chuck and duck team they were under ernie.

To update for me now the 2 best teams I've seen are Stanford and USC, both in the non con and then in the P 12 teams UCLA has played so far. Stanford has a lack of depth but their starting 5 is probably the best in the conference and they at least so far are the best defensive team in the conference which is pretty impressive with 2 freshman starters.

 

[1Sun]

WSU is really well coached this year. He did a good job at USF and is doing it at WSU too, they force a bunch of turnovers and Elleby is really good. They aren't the chuck and duck team they were under ernie.

To update for me now the 2 best teams I've seen are Stanford and USC, both in the non con and then in the P 12 teams UCLA has played so far. Stanford has a lack of depth but their starting 5 is probably the best in the conference and they at least so far are the best defensive team in the conference which is pretty impressive with 2 freshman starters.

I knew Jerod Haase in college at Cal. Extremely bright guy with brilliant basketball knowledge.

 

[Russ Smith]

I knew Jerod Haase in college at Cal. Extremely bright guy with brilliant basketball knowledge.

I wasn't a huge fan of his as a coach but he's doing a very good job this year. Stanford is a tough place to coach it's hard to recruit with the academics but he's doing a very nice job there now. Tyrell Terry is a walking advertisement for why number of stars in recruiting is irrelevant to a college coach. Is Nico Mannion a better pro prospect, probably he's bigger and more athletic, is Terry a better player right now, absolutely. Mannion has more assists but he also plays with 2 first round picks in Green and Nnaji, Terry is flirting with a 40/40/90 year as a freshman. Not saying I think UA shouldn't have recruited Nico he's very good just that sometimes people get too enamored with Scout ratings and guys like Terry get missed. Haase has 2 of those guys with Terry and Spencer Jones that were vastly underrecruited.

 

[DWKB]

I knew Jerod Haase in college at Cal. Extremely bright guy with brilliant basketball knowledge.

Floor Burns!

Wish he was a better shooter in 1997.

 

[1Sun]

5 points in the first 7 minutes today. I can't wait for Sean Miller to be gone...

 

[1Sun]

I turned the game off trailing 10-5 seven minutes into the game. Ten minutes later, I check the score, and we are up 29-15. This team clearly has the talent but not the consistent effort. Schizophrenic. One minute they are world-beaters, and the next minute they are doormats. Any bets as to how long this lead will last?

 

[1Sun]

Nice recovery from one of the ugliest and sloppiest starts I have even seen to post the team's first quality win since the dawn of the season against Illinois.

We now know what this roster is capable of, and I maintain that this roster under Altman, Haase, Hopkins or even Tinkle, Hurley or Enfield is a Top 10 team and Final Four contender.

Sean Miller is holding this team back.

 

[TJ]

So apparently, Chase Jeter has been holding this team back the entire time. Doubt he ever starts another game at Arizona again

 

[1Sun]

So apparently, Chase Jeter has been holding this team back the entire time. Doubt he ever starts another game at Arizona again

Betcha Sean Miller plugs him right back in the starting line-up the moment he is healthy again.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

So apparently, Chase Jeter has been holding this team back the entire time. Doubt he ever starts another game at Arizona again

Yep. Attended the game today. It was a very fun team to watch. And everyone was wearing their shorts like a normal adult