Artice - Cards, Fitzgerald not close to deal

[40yearfan]

Incorrect. By Joe's spreadsheat, Fitz's cap number is $16,592,500, or almost 17 million. You forgot the bonus. Sorry, but I'm not going to let you get away with mitigating this disaster. He did not save his cap money for this season in any way, shape, or form to pay Fitz almost 17 million. If you believe that, you truly have become blinded to any kind of real criticism on Rod Graves.

Depends on whether you are talking cap numbers or actual cash numbers---

In four seasons, Fitzgerald has hit incentives that have pushed his salary to $14.6 million in 2008 and $17.35 million in 2009, the last two years of his rookie contract.

From Kent Sommers and the AZ Republic:

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/articles/0208cardsfree.html

BTW, it ain't a disaster yet. Just because you're an actor doesn't give you poetic license to make this seem as if the Cardinals are the only ones facing this kind of thing.

 

[40yearfan]

WRONG, as stated above. And, if you continue to misquote me as you do yet again, I'm going to simply assume you're being argumentative just to be argumentative and put you on my ignore list. NO ONE IS BLAMING THEM FOR THE CONTRACT. NO ONE, NO ONE, NO ONE. I figured that, maybe if I really made it jump out at you, you'd FINALLY read it. It was a standard rookie deal and a deal that we had to pony up if we wanted to sign Fitz as a rookie #3 pick in the draft. Sheesh. The difficulty is, as you admitted, no other GM has ignored a contract like this and let it come to term. If Graves does that, he's done (or should be). If he fixes the situation and manages a last-second extension, then I'll be ecstatic.

As for your politician-like lack of recollection, allow me to post a new thread.

Now this one takes the cake. Where oh where did I admit that no other GM ignored a contract like this one? I said just the opposite. Stout, you're reading comprehension is mind boggling. This sort of thing happens to every NFL team. That's what happens when you try to pay tomorrow for something you want today.

 

[Pariah]

So you hollered at Graves last year because you wanted him to take more player debt on and now you are hollering at him because he did with Larry a couple of years ago what you were wanting him to do last year with several other players. You can't have it both ways.

Yes, we can. I want the team to pay players more money if that's what it takes to keep the good ones we have or sign FAs, but I don't want to put all of that money in a single player's contract. As has been stated ad naseum, there are smarter ways to manage the salary cap then how it's been done in AZ.

 

[Stout]

Now this one takes the cake. Where oh where did I admit that no other GM ignored a contract like this one? I said just the opposite. Stout, you're reading comprehension is mind boggling. This sort of thing happens to every NFL team. That's what happens when you try to pay tomorrow for something you want today.

What I said:

I'm talking about players in the back end of their rookie contracts who suddenly, because of incentives, have astronomical cap figures. Show me another player from that situation who carried a near 17 million dollar cap figure.

What you said in direct response:

There are none. Fitz is one of a kind and we are lucky to have him. If he wouldn't have hit those incentives, you'd be all over Graves for making such a poor draft pick.

Thank you. Your inability to remember what you write is mind boggling.

 

[Stout]

Depends on whether you are talking cap numbers or actual cash numbers---



From Kent Sommers and the AZ Republic:

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/articles/0208cardsfree.html

BTW, it ain't a disaster yet. Just because you're an actor doesn't give you poetic license to make this seem as if the Cardinals are the only ones facing this kind of thing.

Well, gee, which numbers actually mean anything right now? Um, the cap numbers. Ergo, that's the number we should be talking about. Stop trying to mitigate this for your favorite guy.

 

[40yearfan]

What I said:



What you said in direct response:



Thank you. Your inability to remember what you write is mind boggling.

Because there are no other WR's as good as Fitz, you think I meant no other GM's? Oa Vay.

 

[Stout]

Because there are no other WR's as good as Fitz, you think I meant no other GM's? Oa Vay.

Well, when I asked you to show me and you replied there are now, directly quoting my post, I logically figured that possibly it was a response to that post. Now it suddenly isn't? Oi vay.

 

[Pariah]

Because there are no other WR's as good as Fitz,

I love Fitz, but statistically, there are (and they don't make as much). Further, there are more important positions on the field than WR, so, personally, even though fitz is a top-5 WR, I don't think it makes sense for him to be the highest paid player on the team.

JMHO

 

[imaCafan]

So what do we do with this thread when Fitz signs his deal (by Thursday afternoon is what I figure).......oh, and Pace is signed, too.......before FA....

 

[Pariah]

Last paragraph we are in complete agreement although how many people in the real world do yo know that have said "you know what I am going to make less just for the love of my job."

I ealize this deal I'm about to cite is likely heavily backloaded with percentages, but I just thought it was ironic that I read your above post and the following post within the same hour:

Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof, also affiliated with Lost and J. J. Abrams, have optioned the Dark Tower series from King for a reported nineteen dollars, which of course, is the infamous number from the Dark Tower series of novels.

According to issue #923 of Entertainment Weekly, King "is an ardent supporter of the desert-island show and trusts Abrams to translate his vision" into a film franchise with Lindelof being "the leading candidate to write the screenplay for the first installment."

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=107279

 

[Pariah]

So what do we do with this thread when Fitz signs his deal (by Thursday afternoon is what I figure).......oh, and Pace is signed, too.......before FA....

We jump for joy and congratulate Graves on a job well done. No one here DOESN'T want that to happen.

 

[40yearfan]

I love Fitz, but statistically, there are (and they don't make as much). Further, there are more important positions on the field than WR, so, personally, even though fitz is a top-5 WR, I don't think it makes sense for him to be the highest paid player on the team.

JMHO

I agree. That's why when Card Logic posted about trading Fitz, it gave me pause to think. If we can't affect a good contract (for the team), it might behove us to think about a trade. I believe Fitz to be the best WR in football right now, but as you have stated, is he worth the money?

 

[Stout]

We jump for joy and congratulate Graves on a job well done. No one here DOESN'T want that to happen.

Exactly. If that happens I would be ecstatic.

 

[Stout]

I agree. That's why when Card Logic posted about trading Fitz, it gave me pause to think. If we can't affect a good contract (for the team), it might behove us to think about a trade. I believe Fitz to be the best WR in football right now, but as you have stated, is he worth the money?

Which is exactly why the FO needs to do their job and get a deal done.

 

[cardsfanmd]

there are no other WR's as good as Fitz

First, there is a better reciever. Second, recievers are getting too much $ nowadays IMO. If you were starting a team would you rather have the best OT in the league or the best WR???? The best RB or WR???? The best QB or WR????? The best LB or WR?????? The best DE or WR??????? The best DT or WR????? The best S or the best WR?????????????

WR wasn't the answer to any of those questions in my eyes.

 

[Pariah]

The best DT or WR????? The best S or the best WR?????????????

WR wasn't the answer to any of those questions in my eyes.

These two I might go WR on.

 

[cardsfanmd]

These two I might go WR on.

IMO you have to be able to stop the run to win football games, and those are two of the most important positions in regards to stopping the run.

Remember, the Colts got great the year they won the SB when Sanders came back from injury. If it weren't for a weak defensive scheme the Jags would have beat the Patriots this year in the playoffs. Most of their success on that side of the ball is attributed to the fact that Marcus Stroud and John Henderson dominate the LOS.

I can see what you are saying, and I might even agree. My issue isn't that I dont want or appreciate Fitz, it is simply that I get sick to my stomach when I consider that we are about to make a WR the most highest paid PLAYER in the league. That is pathetic on many levels.

 

[Duckjake]

IMO you have to be able to stop the run to win football games, and those are two of the most important positions in regards to stopping the run.

Remember, the Colts got great the year they won the SB when Sanders came back from injury. If it weren't for a weak defensive scheme the Jags would have beat the Patriots this year in the playoffs. Most of their success on that side of the ball is attributed to the fact that Marcus Stroud and John Henderson dominate the LOS.

I can see what you are saying, and I might even agree. My issue isn't that I dont want or appreciate Fitz, it is simply that I get sick to my stomach when I consider that we are about to make a WR the most highest paid PLAYER in the league. That is pathetic on many levels.

Maybe I should post this in the positives thread, but anyway, the Cardinals improved from 32nd in rushing yards per attempt allowed in 2004 to 10th last season.

 

[Duckjake]

From last year:

Cardinals eating up cap space
Darren Urban, Tribune
The Cardinals are choosing to eat up salary cap room quicker than in past years for one simple reason: The players still available as free agents aren’t worth saving space.

The Cards decided to make free agent center Al Johnson’s $3.5 million initial payout a roster bonus instead of a signing bonus, meaning the entire amount (along with Johnson’s $3.5 million salary) goes on this year’s cap as a $7 million hit.

New free agent safety Terrence Holt also got a $4 million roster bonus split over two seasons instead of a signing bonus, helping put Holt’s salary cap number at approximately $5 million this season.

The Cards have around $8 million to $9 million left in cap room — and that’s how it was planned.

They need money for the rookie pool and at least one contract extension — linebacker Karlos Dansby is going into the final year of his deal — and vice president of football operations Rod Graves emphasized the team is not going to overspend just to sign bodies in free agency.

“I would rather re-invest that money in Anquan Boldin or Larry Fitzgerald or players of that nature,” Graves said. “I’d see that rather than chasing guys who you don’t even know if they will line up for you but yet they are getting multi-million dollar deals.”

That’s one of the reasons negotiations have been slow with free agent targets such as cornerback Roderick Hood and offensive lineman Mike Gandy. Neither are considered locks to start if they came to the Cardinals.

The Cardinals are still hoping to sign both players, however, and negotiations are ongoing.

Graves said the team would rather “take the medicine now” instead of having dead money later, which would make managing cutting a player easier. It would also help when players such as Boldin, Fitzgerald, safety Adrian Wilson and quarterback Matt Leinart come up for contract extensions.

 

[DaisyCutter]

They need money for the rookie pool and at least one contract extension — linebacker Karlos Dansby is going into the final year of his deal — and vice president of football operations Rod Graves emphasized the team is not going to overspend just to sign bodies in free agency.

Oops.

 

[Stout]

Thanks, Duck. I just never went back to look because it quite frankly isn't worth the time. Graves had a plan and his plan is collapsing around him. That ain't news to us, sadly enough.

 

[AntSports Steve]

I do NOT believe a new deal will get done this year. I think Fitz plays 2008 on his current contract and they rework his deal next offseason.

Fitz is getting $14M in salary for 2008. If he blows a knee in practice he goes on IR and collects all his 2008 salary. Injury settlements only happen when a team wants to put a player on IR and the player thinks he can return and play. Then, both the player and the team must agree on the buyout, it's basicly a new deal to end the current contract for a set figure.


The only way Fitz doesn't get his 2008 salary is if he gets injured in a non-football related accident, say a car wreck. That's Fitz's only motivation for a new deal. I think that's not enough motivation to get him to sign a reasonable deal, he'll want a blockbuster deal and won't get it. Next year he'll get a much better deal from the Cards.

On the other side of the coin, Fitz will never get that 2009 $17M in salary as the Cards won't allow him to play under contract for that money. They will either redo his deal, trade him, or cut him.

 

[ItsInTheCards]

The only way Fitz doesn't get his 2008 salary is if he gets injured in a non-football related accident, say a car wreck.

or cutting his arm on window glass

On the other side of the coin, Fitz will never get that 2009 $17M in salary as the Cards won't allow him to play under contract for that money. They will either redo his deal, trade him, or cut him.

and therein lies the next problem.....the owners look to be set to end the CBA early, which means that Fitz would be a FA in an UNCAPPED year.....yikes

I bet it will be extremely hard to redo it after this season because he'll make over 17 mil next season and then potential get earth shattering money from a guy like Jones or Snyder....and the franchise tag in 2010 will be over 20 mil

they are in tough shape

 

[CtCardinals78]

If Fitz isn't willing to redo his deal for the good of the team and it means we lose Pace Dansby and others and we can't do FA then I say trade Fitz

 

[40yearfan]

First, there is a better reciever. Second, recievers are getting too much $ nowadays IMO. If you were starting a team would you rather have the best OT in the league or the best WR???? The best RB or WR???? The best QB or WR????? The best LB or WR?????? The best DE or WR??????? The best DT or WR????? The best S or the best WR?????????????

WR wasn't the answer to any of those questions in my eyes.

CFM, I'm not arguing with you. I agree completely. He's making way too much money. Even though I think he's the best WR, bar none, $14 million is just way too much for anyone other than Tom Brady or Payton Manning.