As Promised: Pro Football Focus

Harry

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Ever since Sabremetrics revolutionized baseball people have been trying to do the same things with football. PFF has been the most successful of those trying. Contrary to popular myth Chris Collinsworth did not invent the program. Oddly an Englishman, Neil Hornsby, produced this concept. Collinsworth is just merely the major investor. Beginning with the NFL, the service has since expanded to the NCAA and even the CFL. It’s believed that most of the NFL teams subscribe to the service. The recent draft results would tend to indicate the Cards are one of the subscribers.

It’s important to understand that this system is not like the hitting evaluations in the MLB. Those are based upon statistical probabilities. It’s more like the fielding measures that are subjective. In the PFF system each player’s effort is assigned plus/minus points. At the end of a game the points are totaled and that total is transformed by some proprietary formula into a 0-100 grade. The problem is each evaluator is making a subjective point assignment. Statistically the more you total the more subjective the variance among evaluators becomes. BTW they also now do quite a few custom jobs for various clients. However, not everyone likes the PFF system.

Here’s a Bill Belichick’s take on PFF, “
“You see a play on film and a receiver goes uncovered down the field. So you know it’s probably one of two guys’ mistakes, so you don’t know which guy it is,” Belichick said on “Ordway, Merloni and Fauria” on Monday during his weekly interview with WEEI. “A lot of times the announcer will say, ‘[This guy] should’ve taken him,’ or, ‘[That guy] should have taken him.’ And I’m looking at the play saying, it could have been either guy, depending on what the call was.”

Belichick admitted sometimes his players will correct him, because he will approach the player with a teaching point only to learn there’s another player at fault because of an adjustment at the line of scrimmage.

“In terms of analytics, you get a lot of, ‘This guy should have him. That guy should have him.’ I know from our team, there are times when we don’t know exactly what went wrong until we sort out the play,” Belichick said on WEEI. “So it’s impossible someone else could have known. Sometimes what it looks like is not what it is.”

The Boston Globe had other reservations,

https://bostonsportsmedia.com/2014/06/04/can-pro-football-focus-stats-be-blindly-trusted/

There are many more critical evaluations out there. I’ll let you troll the Net if you want them. Now you may think from this that I don’t like PFF. That would be wrong. I admire what they’re trying to do. I just don’t want to get carried away and think theirs evaluation is an absolute, accurate truth. It merely one view. So while I’m glad they like the AZ draft I’d rather have the scouts I admire like it. Fortunately most of them do.
 

kerouac9

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So basically analytics need to be taken with a grain of salt.

PFF isn't analytics. It's (mostly) grades, which is fine. They have a more granular grading system than anyone else -- every player, every play. And they turn the grades around with LIGHTNING SPEED. It's amazing.

But the best analytics are coming from the NFL's Next Gen Stats; eventually they'll open that up. FootballOutsiders has been working with a game charting group that provides more granular data about levels of the field and stuff, but lets their more objective metrics draw the conclusions alongside their subjective opinions.
 

dscher

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I don't think anyone has argued it needs to be the holy grail. It's all about using as much information you can have to be a step ahead of the game...that's what analytics do
 

football karma

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itll be interesting to see how their draft rankings compare to "traditional" when players actually play

andy isabella is an example: ranked wayyyyy higher by PFF than most
 

Krangodnzr

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PFF isn't analytics. It's (mostly) grades, which is fine. They have a more granular grading system than anyone else -- every player, every play. And they turn the grades around with LIGHTNING SPEED. It's amazing.

But the best analytics are coming from the NFL's Next Gen Stats; eventually they'll open that up. FootballOutsiders has been working with a game charting group that provides more granular data about levels of the field and stuff, but lets their more objective metrics draw the conclusions alongside their subjective opinions.

Football Outsiders >> PFF

But PFF has some value, I just dont always 100% trust them.

When they say stuff like Peterson would grade higher if the ball was thrown his way, it demonstrates how their process has its flaws.

When DJ had his over 200 yard rushing game against the Eagles, they didnt grade him out as player of the game, even though a drunk, schizophrenic Uzbek could watch that game and say Davis Johnson was amazing.
 

az jam

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Both an interesting and for me an educational update on change occurring in the NFL on grading of players. Thanks for the info, Harry.
 

RugbyMuffin

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How much money do you think these analytics companies make ?

Enough to employee old coaches and what not some day ? The more accurate the observation then the more accurate the stats.

I would imagine an analytical breakdown of offensive linemen in the NFL with Joe Thomas consulting along with Dante Scarnecchia would be worth something to more than just fans.
 

JeffGollin

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So basically analytics need to be taken with a grain of salt.
Someone once said that:

Statisics are like a lamp-post - to be used for enightment and not to prop up drunks...

Example: PFF has a Top 250 BPA Big Board covering the 2019 Draft. They list Murray #1, Murphy #6 and so on...

Does that "prove" that Murphy is the 6th best player drafted this year? No, but what it suggests is that some very savvy football folks feel that Murphy is very good (and the Cards, probably got a very good deal when they drafted him).
 
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Dr. Jones

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So basically analytics need to be taken with a grain of salt.
Analytics will never replace what you see on the field and on tape. But it does have a place when used as supporting an overall impression that you have visually seen.

also.


PFF also takes into consideration the importance of the position when building their board. In their opinion, QB is #1 and CB is #2. That explains Murphy's #6 ranking. They are just so much more important to success than any WR, RB, or LB'er.
 

BigRedRage

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Analytics will never replace what you see on the field and on tape. But it does have a place when used as supporting an overall impression that you have visually seen.

also.


PFF also takes into consideration the importance of the position when building their board. In their opinion, QB is #1 and CB is #2. That explains Murphy's #6 ranking. They are just so much more important to success than any WR, RB, or LB'er.
They also base rookie value on cap savings. Qb and cb along with olb are some of the most expensive positions on the field so getting quality at those positions in a draft puts you in better financial positioning.

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Krangodnzr

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Analytics will never replace what you see on the field and on tape. But it does have a place when used as supporting an overall impression that you have visually seen.

also.


PFF also takes into consideration the importance of the position when building their board. In their opinion, QB is #1 and CB is #2. That explains Murphy's #6 ranking. They are just so much more important to success than any WR, RB, or LB'er.

My argument during the draft is that if Murray deserved consideration in the top 15, he was number one.

I know their are flaws to that argument and it's only true to a point.

IMO Murray was a better QB than Rosen, and that's not even considering his rushing ability which is tremendous additional value.

I think the Cardinals are a top ten rushing team immediately with Kyler Murray.
 

gmabel830

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It should be one of several data points considered when evaluating players


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conraddobler

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Baseball, one batter at a time on each "play"

Football, theoretically 11 batters each play, yes you can't pass it to everyone because they are not eligible but if the ball bounces to them, then they are now the batter.

It's so different including the defense and so much more interconnected on each play you'll never get the isolation of variables you need to approach the utility of it you get in baseball.

Not to say it won't be useful but I don't see how it'd be of that much value see what Bill B said.

Bill B already does this in his head by the way, that's why he's so good, he's experienced enough he's technically a human saber metrics machine himself.

He's able to see how a player would fit based on his evaluation of that player and how to use them.
 

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