'As the world turns' on it's LA axis....

[Errntknght]

I copied this from another message board....


Original Lakers ask Phil to bench Malone and Payton

By Tim Brown, Times Staff Writer

AUBURN HILLS, Mich. — Phil Jackson stood in a dingy bathroom at the Palace, the Lakers in three games of the NBA Finals fortunate to win one, and he listened to the proposal that could change the course of a season, perhaps a career.

Before him, the five Lakers who remained from their three championships together — Shaquille O'Neal, Kobe Bryant, Rick Fox, Derek Fisher and Devean George — asked for their season back.

Their plea: Bench an ailing Karl Malone, bench an ineffective Gary Payton and play those five together in tonight's Game 4 against the Detroit Pistons, Fox at power forward, Fisher at point guard.

Fifteen rings among them and their next title hopes fading against the relentless Pistons, they had summoned Jackson away from their teammates, away from the glare of the Finals, and outlined their plan. O'Neal stood beside Bryant, the two of them apparently in agreement.

When they were done, Jackson told them he would think about it. Then, in a team meeting before the Lakers practiced on Saturday afternoon, Jackson told the rest of the Lakers about the meeting and what he was considering.

An hour later, Jackson leaned against a cinder-block wall and recounted the bathroom stall summit. His offense fractured by the Piston defense, the Lakers had scored 68 points in Game 3, the triangle burdened by injury and misreads. Payton appeared more disconnected than ever and Malone was hampered by another knee ligament injury.

The answer, Jackson was reminded, might be to reach back to the three-peat, to summon the players and the execution that made them champions before. And Jackson said maybe.

"They harassed me, took me in the toilet to have a private conference," he said. "They're asking for more of an opportunity to perform the wizardry of the triangle under the auspices of their talent. They're afraid guys don't have the kind of experience with it to operate under this kind of pressure."

Jackson and his coaching staff had made dramatic changes to the offense in earlier series against the San Antonio Spurs and Minnesota Timberwolves. They initiated the offense more through pick-and-rolls, giving triangle rookies Payton and Malone roles that were more familiar.

The Pistons have stopped nearly everything, however. Bryant scored off some pick-and-rolls in overtime of Game 2, but outside of that the Lakers often have looked old and slow, or indecisive. In a 20-point Game 3 loss, Bryant often appeared frustrated by his teammates' offensive decisions, the ball coming to him in double-teams and moving away from him when he'd posted the smaller Lindsey Hunter.

Now, with the series in jeopardy, they've asked Jackson for a chance.

"I said I'd consider it," Jackson said. "I think it puts us in a deficit position for rebounding, for one thing. But I appreciate their initiative. I have to weigh the benefits of that."

Not only hasn't Fox played a lot of power forward, he hasn't played much of anything lately. A series of injuries — first to his elbow, then his thumb and now in his neck and shoulder — have kept him off the floor for long periods.

A lineup change, getting the five players trained in the intricacies of the offense on the court together, would necessitate Fox defending Rasheed Wallace or Ben Wallace, or at least sharing them with O'Neal. Jackson also could start Slava Medvedenko at power forward and run Fox in at small forward.

Fox said Saturday that his lack of playing time was partly a result of his recent injury and partly because Jackson simply had not called on him. Asked about playing power forward, he smiled and pointed to George.

"I'm trying to talk Devean into power forward," he said.

Fisher and Fox long have toiled on the periphery of an offense called three-sided but built around two — O'Neal and Bryant. Except O'Neal had only 14 points in Game 3 and Bryant 11. In three games, the Lakers are averaging 80.7 points, shooting 41.4% and going to the free-throw line about 10 fewer times a game than they did in the regular season.

"We've got to start looking for execution, that's all," Fox said.

Even without the offensive lapses, Jackson said he'd have to think about Malone's role, given the injury that limits so much of what he does.

"What I've told him is we like what he's doing with Rasheed Wallace," Jackson said. "He's played him well enough so that he has not become a big factor in this series…. [But] his ability to rebound and all of those things, we do need to move forward. As he goes through the series and he improves, he has to make that call and help us out. It's a consideration."

Benching the prickly Payton, of course, could bring a new set of problems. He has been unhappy about his role almost from training camp and has seethed when Fisher played the critical minutes of fourth quarters.

At the end of a season in which the Lakers have learned to love him all over again, however, Fisher has proven himself to be at least as strong defensively as Payton and is, of course, a better jump shooter. He also knows the offense, having run it among the superstars for five years.

"I've definitely shown up before and even at times in this postseason," Fisher said. "If we execute properly, that third or fourth [scorer] just kind of automatically appears…. When you're playing against a good defensive team, then you have to be willing to sustain your offensive execution even more and we failed to do that."

So, they've asked for more. If they lose, they'll have lost at their own game. If not, then they'll have done it again, together again.

So Jackson went to bed Saturday night weighing one of the crucial decisions in a coaching career that has brought thousands of them, and nine NBA championships, and could end with one final choice, either way.

Final Examination

Starters and their scoring averages in the NBA Finals in the Lakers' three titles under Phil Jackson:

2000 VS. INDIANA

Forward A.C. Green 5.0
Forward Glen Rice 11.5
Center Shaquille O'Neal 38.0
Guard Kobe Bryant 15.6
Guard Ron Harper 10.8

2001 VS. PHILADELPHIA

Forward Horace Grant 5.2
Forward Rick Fox 9.8
Center Shaquille O'Neal 33.0
Guard Kobe Bryant 24.6
Guard Derek Fisher 9.8

2002 VS. NEW JERSEY

Forward Robert Horry 8.0
Forward Rick Fox 9.8
Center Shaquille O'Neal 36.3
Guard Kobe Bryant 26.8
Guard Derek Fisher 12.8

NOTE — O'Neal and Bryant are the only Lakers averaging more then 10 points a game against Detroit.



I'm sure PJ is wishing he had a well polished triangle to use against the Pistons but at the cost of starting Rick Fox
it doesn't sound too promising. Rasheed would have a field day shooting over him and Prince would run him into the ground. Put Fox on Ben and Shaq has to come way out to guard Rasheed. A zone would probably be the best bet but I don't think the Lakers have that in their arsenal, besides Sheed would still shoot over Fox.

 

[Chaplin]

Rick Fox is a colossal waste of space. Just terrible. Phil would have to be nuts to start him. Derek Fisher, however, might not be such a bad idea.

 

[F-Dog]

If this is the depository for bad press towards the Lakers, I've got another article to show off:

Something Is Lost When He Passes Up This Opportunity
(Bill Plaschke, LA Times--you'll need a password. Try bugmenot.com for a freebie.)

AUBURN HILLS, Mich. — So this is how it will end.

So these are the lengths to which the nastiness between Kobe Bryant and Shaquille O'Neal will stretch.

Bryant will fight their season into the ground. He will ignore O'Neal into infinity. He will stoke the feud until the last light is dimmed and one of them leaves town.

It will be awful, and ugly, and a championship may collapse under its stupidity.

The latest example was Sunday, Game 4 of the NBA Finals against the Detroit Pistons, a victory the Lakers needed to avoid a historically insurmountable deficit.

O'Neal could have won it for them.

But Bryant would not throw it to him.

O'Neal blew the Pistons away.

But Bryant blew him off.

O'Neal showed up larger than life, staring down critics who wondered whether he had lost his championship swagger, 36 points, 20 rebounds, the biggest man in the basketball universe.

Yet Bryant could not find him. Would not find him. How do you not find him?

Bryant took four more shots than a man who could not miss.

Bryant threw up balls while falling and sliding and dancing two-dozen feet from the basket, ignoring a guy waiting to dunk.

In 45 minutes, Bryant had zero rebounds, two assists, three turnovers, and one big question.

What on earth was he thinking?

The final score was Detroit 88, Lakers 80, and the difference was best computed by Rick Fox.

"Shaq should have had 50," said Fox. "And that would have been the difference."

The Lakers now trail three games to one, a deficit that has never been overcome in the history of the NBA Finals, and isn't this just perfect.

The two supermen who have led them to three championships, done in by human frailties.

Their five-year fight, culminating in a double knockout.

Said Bryant: "My shot selection, some of them were good and some of them stunk. That's pretty much every game with me."

Said O'Neal, when asked if he was disappointed when teammates ignored him: "Of course I was."

The game was tied after three quarters, the Lakers finally succumbing in a fourth quarter in which they were outrebounded, outdefended, and outshot at the free throw line.

But it was lost at the start.

In the first quarter, O'Neal scored six consecutive points and was involved in 14 of 16 points during one stretch.

"This was going to be his game, it was clear right away, we just had to get him the ball," said Fox.

And everybody did … but Bryant.

He was the only one of the five players with the most first-quarter minutes who did not have an assist.

While O'Neal was five for five, Bryant was one for six.

Is it any wonder that, even though the Pistons shot only 35% in the quarter and weren't moving the ball, they finished it trailing by only one point?

Fast forward to midway through the second quarter, with the Lakers leading, 32-29, on O'Neal's dunk.

In the final six minutes of the period, O'Neal does not take another shot, while Bryant throws up five wild ones, two of which fall, while losing another ball on a drive.

At halftime, the Lakers trail by two, and should be leading by 10.

"We let one slip away," said O'Neal.

By the fourth quarter, O'Neal was exhausted, yet still managed to make all but one of his six shots in the period.

Bryant, meanwhile, missed half of his six shots in the period and had one of the team's three turnovers.

He was also frustrated enough after one foul to scream at official Jack Nies, who assessed him a technical, which led to another Piston point.

"It was a sloppy fourth quarter for us," said O'Neal. "We had too many ill-advised shots, we had too many turnovers."

Bryant, who finished with only eight field goals in 25 shots, has had a sloppy series with the exception of his late rush in Game 2.

Some of it has been the long arms of Tayshaun Prince. Some of it has been a Detroit team defense that rarely lets him approach the basket untouched.

But on Sunday night, much of it was about the one trait that he has shown more than all others in his time in Los Angeles, his stubbornness.

"Yeah, I've just got to shoot through it," he said.

"Prince is a long guy. He's able to get his hands up on my arms and my follow-throughs. He's doing a good job staying in front of me."

Now, perhaps, only one game is in front of him, a Tuesday night Game 5 in which the Pistons could clinch the series and the NBA championship.

A different ending than planned, no?

For three of the last four springs, it seemed as if Kobe Bryant would be with Shaquille O'Neal forever.

In perhaps the penultimate game of what could be their final spring together, it seems as if he can't get away from him fast enough.

I guess this is what Eric and Chap are talking about when they say the LA press is out to get Kobe.


By the way--if Shaq winds up winning Finals MVP in a losing effort, I will ROTFLMAO.

 

[elindholm]

It didn't seem to me that the Lakers were any better at getting O'Neal the ball when Bryant was on the bench. Good defensive teams can make adjustments, and the Pistons worked hard to deny O'Neal access to the ball. Obviously it didn't always work, but it's no more fair to dump it all in Bryant's lap than it would be Fisher's or Payton's or Walton's or Jackson's.

I agree that Bryant's shot selection was questionable, however, and that he missed shots one would ordinarily expect him to make.

 

[Chaplin]

Here's the deal: Kobe Bryant had a horrible shooting game, but his horrible shooting happened primarily in the first 3 quarters. His bad shots in the 4th were a result of a couple things--first, Tayshaun's defense was phenomenal. I'm a believer now. Second, Kobe would usually end up with the ball at the end of the shot clock--he didn't have a lot of time to do anything with it, so he just had to toss it up--usually ending in an airball or really bad shot.

It's funny to me that the LA media is slamming him so much--yet another bit of fuel to throw on the fire that pushes Kobe out of Los Angeles.

The main problem, to me, about last night's game was not Kobe Bryant, it was the fact that the Lakers would stop going to Shaq for long periods of time in a row.

 

[F-Dog]

It didn't seem to me that the Lakers were any better at getting O'Neal the ball when Bryant was on the bench. Good defensive teams can make adjustments, and the Pistons worked hard to deny O'Neal access to the ball. Obviously it didn't always work, but it's no more fair to dump it all in Bryant's lap than it would be Fisher's or Payton's or Walton's or Jackson's.

I agree that Bryant's shot selection was questionable, however, and that he missed shots one would ordinarily expect him to make.

I agree with you that there were plenty of laps to dump the blame on after the game.

I guess with Kobe, people are thinking, 'he could have gotten it to Shaq if he wanted to', but with the other players, people assume that their lack of talent was the real problem.

 

[George O'Brien]

The Pistons are a great defensive team and they worked very hard to deny Shaq the ball. Shaq worked very hard to get in position to get the ball (far more than usual I might add), but often the Lakers were so busy just trying to keep from having the ball taken from them that they didn't have a chance to pass it to him.

 

[Dr. Dumas]

The LA media can cry all they want. If it's not one excuse, it's another.

The plain fact, is that Detroit is the better team. I agree with what Chap had to say about Kobe getting the ball with 4 seconds left to create something. I also saw Shaq passing out of the low block a ton. Even if LA could get the ball to Shaq on every possion, he would probably fall down and go into cardiac arrest from being so tired.

Without Kobe in game three, this series would be over.

 

[devilalum]

If the Suns do get Kobe next year every game with the Lakers will be a war!

Shaq and Kobe may try to put their differences aside now but if Kobe bolts the true hatred they have for one another will really show.