BA on Amos Jones & Justin Bethel

az jam

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That's crazy, he can throw Bethel under the bus, correctly, but defends his ST coach?

Not sure that's stuff you want to be tweeting in public BA.


That is a problem. He rips players in public but don't hold his coaches accountable. I like BA but that really sucks.
 

Cards_Campos

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Not a single person has said that keeping Amos is a good decision.
Correct but look at the posts and responses. Alot of people are losing patience with Arians. heck there is a thread calling him Whisenhunt 2.0. I'm not the only one. And in fact if you look at Mitch's post....you can read between the lines he is losing a lot of faith in Arians too. Yes they are not going to fire him this year. This happens next year and he is gone.
 

GoldGloveschmidt

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That is a brutal comment on Bethel and an idiot one about Jones.

If BA hadn't already lost the locker room, he will now. No accountability on himself or his staff. Everybody else's fault. Time to go.
 

GatorAZ

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Anytime a HC hires an actually friend close friend (not just close co-worker but actually family friend) it doesn't end well if they start losing. That's true in any business.

How many times has John Harbaugh fired a coordinator in the middle of a season? No way those guys are hiring their friends.
 

Bert

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That's crazy, he can throw Bethel under the bus, correctly, but defends his ST coach?

Not sure that's stuff you want to be tweeting in public BA.

Hey someone gets it!

So you guys are cool with BA throwing players under the bus week in and week out, but coaches are absolutely beyond reproach??? He does it after every loss. Hell, he's thrown David Johnson under the bus after a win this season. But Drew Butler is a "great punter", Cat is "the best kicker in the NFL." Amos is a "phenomenal coach." How is that fair, how do you think players feel about that? Most importantly...

Hows that working out for ya BA?

I still like BA, I dont want him gone. There is a big difference between holding a coach accountable and saying FIRE BA! But as I have said, multiple times this season:

The warts that kept him from becoming a head coach for 30 years are showing. It's as simple as that. He's a stubborn guy.

SK or if need be, MB needs to tighten the leash. BA clearly, clearly, clearly plays favorites among players and coaches. EVERYONE must be accountable.
 
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Correct but look at the posts and responses. Alot of people are losing patience with Arians. heck there is a thread calling him Whisenhunt 2.0. I'm not the only one. And in fact if you look at Mitch's post....you can read between the lines he is losing a lot of faith in Arians too. Yes they are not going to fire him this year. This happens next year and he is gone.

He is the best coach the Cards have had since moving to Az. He's not going anywhere. How many coaches have the Cards had that's had a winning record every year (not counting this one)? He has one off year & you are calling for his head. Ridiculous.
 

Russ Smith

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Hey someone gets it!

So you guys are cool with BA throwing players under the bus week in and week out, but coaches are absolutely beyond reproach??? He does it after every loss. Hell, he's thrown David Johnson under the bus after a win this season. But Drew Butler is a "great punter", Cat is "the best kicker in the NFL." Amos is a "phenomenal coach." How is that fair, how do you think players feel about that? Most importantly...

Hows that working out for ya BA?

I still like BA, I dont want him gone. There is a big difference between holding a coach accountable and saying FIRE BA! But as I have said, multiple times this season:

The warts that kept him from becoming a head coach for 30 years are showing. It's as simple as that. He's a stubborn guy.

SK or if need be, MB needs to tighten the leash. BA clearly, clearly, clearly plays favorites among players and coaches. EVERYONE must be accountable.


Agreed I don't want him gone but I want checks and balances on his authority until he shows he's not at times making decisions based on favoritism.

I actually think Cat is pretty good, I think the changes in snappers have been a pain for him and he has one very bad flaw for a kicker and that is if the snap isn't perfect, it seems to completely mess him up. Any high snap or delay in it being put down seems to completely screw him up and he misses. Ideally the snap and hold will be good but in the real world it won't always be and the kicker has to be able to handle that. So far it's been a major issue with Cat.

I still say if he's available this offseason pick up Bryan Anger, the problem is he's breaking all the Bucs records for punters, is posssibly the best holder in the NFL(says his coaches) and it's quite likely Tampa Bay signs him to an extension.

Bugs me to no end he was out there this past offseason and we didn't consider him because of Butler.

45.9 yards per punt, 28 inside the 20 yard line,net average is 42, yes teams average less than 4 yards per return against TB this year. The coach(Koetter) said their system is very tough on punters because they require them to directionally kick far more than most teams do, you can't just air it out we want our guy to kick it to a specific spot based on our coverage called. So doing that, his net average of 42 is just .2 yards less than Butlers overall avg. The net for Butler is 35.6. So on average they get an extra 6.4 yards per punt from Anger, and again he was available this offseason.
 

BigRedRage

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Correct but look at the posts and responses. Alot of people are losing patience with Arians. heck there is a thread calling him Whisenhunt 2.0. I'm not the only one. And in fact if you look at Mitch's post....you can read between the lines he is losing a lot of faith in Arians too. Yes they are not going to fire him this year. This happens next year and he is gone.
Lol are you talking about the thread you made?

Yes, some people have turned on Arians already, doesn't make them right. I don't make hasty decisions and prefer to wait it out and calmly assess and that process tells me that it's all going to be okay

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this is so unbeleivably tone deaf from Arians

it feels like he is intentionally trolling fans with that statement

really, really wonder if that statement was signed off on by SK or MB

because if anyone has a sense of the fans, its MB -- and i cant beleive that he would have signed off on that blanket statement by BA
 
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Russ Smith

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That is a brutal comment on Bethel and an idiot one about Jones.

If BA hadn't already lost the locker room, he will now. No accountability on himself or his staff. Everybody else's fault. Time to go.


If he's consistent I'm fine with the comment on Bethel. He has been AWFUL as a CB and that's why he got the new deal, he was going to be a starting CB.

But then he doesn't go after the coaches, and he keeps acting like Butler is a good Punter etc so he's NOT consistent.

I know you have to handle each player differently but when rookies can't get on the field because they're not ready or not professionals, why can Butler keep getting on the field?

I haven't see it has BA had any comment on the players who tackled the RB allowing Miami to kick the game winning FG?
 

BigRedRage

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If he's consistent I'm fine with the comment on Bethel. He has been AWFUL as a CB and that's why he got the new deal, he was going to be a starting CB.

But then he doesn't go after the coaches, and he keeps acting like Butler is a good Punter etc so he's NOT consistent.

I know you have to handle each player differently but when rookies can't get on the field because they're not ready or not professionals, why can Butler keep getting on the field?

I haven't see it has BA had any comment on the players who tackled the RB allowing Miami to kick the game winning FG?
Eh, that is a split second thing, you can't look at the clock and tackle the guy at the same time

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az jam

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I'm now retired but was a senior manager in the business world. I always told my young mangers that they should never hire a friend that they cannot fire for poor performance.
BA may be a good coach but fails the management test. Keim who is ultimately responsible has to force the decision on BA to fire Amos Jones.
 

Russ Smith

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Eh, that is a split second thing, you can't look at the clock and tackle the guy at the same time

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Sure but wouldn't the coaches be expected to let them know that? I know we didn't have call a timeout in there but based on the look on Bettchers' face HE clearly knew it and was furious the players didn't.

The ball was snapped with 10 seconds left to be honest I was stunned they even ran a play I assumed they'd take a knee and then call timeout, Miami was incredibly lucky we tackled the guy or that game goes to OT.

But I'm curious were the coaches telling the players, did they not realize until after the play, did any of the players notice etc.

I think it was Minter that lost his helmet on that play and still jumped on the guys back. Of all the plays for him to be "quick" it was one where we didn't want it.
 

BigRedRage

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I'm now retired but was a senior manager in the business world. I always told my young mangers that they should never hire a friend that they cannot fire for poor performance.
BA may be a good coach but fails the management test. Keim who is ultimately responsible has to force the decision on BA to fire Amos Jones.
Ultimately, that is the GMs job anyway

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BigRedRage

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Sure but wouldn't the coaches be expected to let them know that? I know we didn't have call a timeout in there but based on the look on Bettchers' face HE clearly knew it and was furious the players didn't.

The ball was snapped with 10 seconds left to be honest I was stunned they even ran a play I assumed they'd take a knee and then call timeout, Miami was incredibly lucky we tackled the guy or that game goes to OT.

But I'm curious were the coaches telling the players, did they not realize until after the play, did any of the players notice etc.

I think it was Minter that lost his helmet on that play and still jumped on the guys back. Of all the plays for him to be "quick" it was one where we didn't want it.
What I find funny about that part is when we call timeout after a play we still lose several seconds but when Miami does it the timeout is enforced the second his knee hit the ground

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Russ Smith

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What I find funny about that part is when we call timeout after a play we still lose several seconds but when Miami does it the timeout is enforced the second his knee hit the ground

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yeah I was hoping for a better replay to see if they really got him down and got the timeout in time. Never really could tell but i figured if we were dumb enough to tackle him we didn't deserve the game into OT.

I really am amazed they ran that play though, and the QB tripped on the snap and handed it off while falling down, in wet conditions they could have messed up the handoff and lost the ball.

I would be willing to bet they don't do that again with 10 seconds left.
 

JeffGollin

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I think most of us are throwing around opinions based on mind-reading, conjecture and CW. (To paraphrase Jim Mora: "We may think we know, but we really don't know..."

What do we actually know:

- Whatever we did this year landed us out of the playoffs.

- Logically, if we do the same things next season, we'll be out of the playoffs again. (i.e. some things wiil have to change).

- Knowing what these changes should be is why we pay SK and BA big bucks; & if they keep making poor decisions, find new guys who make better ones. (Note - If BASK are capable of self-analysis and can learn to make better decisions, by all means keep them).

- When a team is mistake-prone, it's seldom due to lack of talent. It's usually a result of poor coaching (especially fundamentals).

- BA is said to be a smart guy, brings accountability but also warmth and a good vibe to the lockerroom. We ought to challenge that perception - there were things done last year that apparently didn't extend into this year. What were they? What should change?

What we don't know (but suspect) is that things were allowed to happen this year that didn't happen last year. Result: in changes for the worse in strategy, talent-evaluation and culture.

This year, more than just lip-service should be given to the obligatory comprehensive review that's done at the end of each season.

Things went wrong. What were they? How do we fix them.

Final note - I always had faith in Bethel, and I evidently was wrong. Goes to show you - I think I'm good at evaluating DB's, but am probably too far removed from the scene to know much. We could all stand to use more humility.
 

Bert

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Amos will be replaced this offseason, bank on it. This is just coach speak.

I don't buy it my friend. Coach speak is; "After a season like this, everyone will be evaluated." or some nonsense like that

Gambo and Burns said he was like, super adamant. "There will be NO coaching changes." Doesn't sound like coach speak to me, it sounds like cronyism.

I'm tellin ya, he'll be the ST coach next year. Wanna bet? :) Avatars?
 

AZ Native

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Hey someone gets it!

So you guys are cool with BA throwing players under the bus week in and week out, but coaches are absolutely beyond reproach??? He does it after every loss. Hell, he's thrown David Johnson under the bus after a win this season. But Drew Butler is a "great punter", Cat is "the best kicker in the NFL." Amos is a "phenomenal coach." How is that fair, how do you think players feel about that? Most importantly...

Hows that working out for ya BA?

I still like BA, I dont want him gone. There is a big difference between holding a coach accountable and saying FIRE BA! But as I have said, multiple times this season:

The warts that kept him from becoming a head coach for 30 years are showing. It's as simple as that. He's a stubborn guy.

SK or if need be, MB needs to tighten the leash. BA clearly, clearly, clearly plays favorites among players and coaches. EVERYONE must be accountable.

I think what bothered me most was the "Super Bowl Ring, not just a Super Bowl" comment. C'mon, talk about setting your team up for disaster. Did you ever hear Belichick, Landry, Noll, Walsh etc, etc talk this way?

Yeah, you want to have a positive attitude, but be a little more guarded and don't set yourself up for failure.
 

BigRedRage

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I don't buy it my friend. Coach speak is; "After a season like this, everyone will be evaluated." or some nonsense like that

Gambo and Burns said he was like, super adamant. "There will be NO coaching changes." Doesn't sound like coach speak to me, it sounds like cronyism.

I'm tellin ya, he'll be the ST coach next year. Wanna bet? :) Avatars?
Don't put a price on my optimism!

:Stick:

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BigRedRage

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I think what bothered me most was the "Super Bowl Ring, not just a Super Bowl" comment. C'mon, talk about setting your team up for disaster. Did you ever hear Belichick, Landry, Noll, Walsh etc, etc talk this way?

Yeah, you want to have a positive attitude, but be a little more guarded and don't set yourself up for failure.
"guys, we want to win games"

You inspired?

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