bad calls in game 3

[Esther]

Did anyone else notices all these:

1) Van Horn's 3 point play at 6:12: His lay-up was ruled a foul on Thomas. With video replay, it was clear no one touched him on that play.

2) The Tim Thomas turnover at 2:30: Dirk grabbed Thomas' arm during the pass and the ball went to Josh Howard who then made a lay-up. It's not a turnover, it's a foul. No call.

3) 1:09, shot clock ran out on Dallas, Dirk took a shot that did not hit the rim. Dallas regains possession. Stupid call.

4) 0:57, Van Horn lost the ball and caught it on the way down. Diaw did NOT touch the ball. He was bending over with his arms down, when the the ball flew upward out of Van Horn's hand. That was a self-pass. No call.

I noticed all that after seeing the video in slow motion. It reminds me of the Lakers game 4 final seconds. Sure, bad calls go both ways. But 4 bad calls agains the Suns in crunch time?

 

[JWF]

There were some bad calls. But the suns lost because they didnt have a sense of urgency at the end of that game.

Inculing the posession with the shot clock incident, the suns made 3 good stops....but unfortunatley, failed to get the rebound 3 times in a row, even with the mavs players playing near the halfcourt line to defend the fast break. Things like that totally negate any bad calls, because at that point it was a 6 point game, and there was plenty of time for a realistic comeback.

The thing is, the suns have had there share of games with bad calls against them in these playoffs, and they overcame them. They just have to do it again.

 

[jenna2891]

if i see dirk traveling one more time without a call i'm going to lose it.

 

[SirStefan32]

Please, stop with this blaming the refs thing, it's getting old.

They should be winning games even with bad officiating.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

if i see dirk traveling one more time without a call i'm going to lose it.

Boris Diaw travels on pretty much every play too. Marion, Nash, and about half the NBA get away with their fair share of travels as well.

The Suns are not losing because of the refs. They're losing because they're not scoring enough points. Let's not become Sacramento South.

 

[jenna2891]

Boris Diaw travels on pretty much every play too. Marion, Nash, and about half the NBA get away with their fair share of travels as well.

The Suns are not losing because of the refs. They're losing because they're not scoring enough points. Let's not become Sacramento South.

i'm not talking about the extra step on a layup. what bothers me is the full-on shuffling he does, "pivoting" with both feet.

 

[CardShark]

Boris Diaw travels on pretty much every play too. Marion, Nash, and about half the NBA get away with their fair share of travels as well.

The Suns are not losing because of the refs. They're losing because they're not scoring enough points. Let's not become Sacramento South.

Wouldn't that be Sacramento East?

 

[nowagimp]

The Suns are not losing because of the refs. They're losing because they're not scoring enough points. Let's not become Sacramento South.

Wow, you mean you can lose a game by not scoring enough points. Youre just brilliant. I'll bet Phil Jackson could use that info MaoTosi, you better go tell him.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Wow, you mean you can lose a game by not scoring enough points. Youre just brilliant. I'll bet Phil Jackson could use that info MaoTosi, you better go tell him.

Good one.

My point was that when the Suns only score 88 and 98 points most of the time they're not going to win. But I suppose that's all the ref's fault too, right? Just like it's all the refs fault Raja got injured and House, Jones, and Barbosa have been completely awful.

 

[Esther]

Yeah, of course I agree they didn't play well. I am not saying they would have won if the refs were more accurate. But it still sucks to have have so many bad calls during crunch time, especially calls that could change the outcome of the game, isn't that right?

 

[Cheesebeef]

STOP!!! PLEASE! Don't turn into freaking Kings fans - it's embarassing.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I noticed all that after seeing the video in slow motion.

if this doesn't say it all, I don't know what does. The refs don't have x-ray vision, they don't see in Matrix-bullet time and they don't watch the games in slow motion - they make mistakes, some get called, some don't, but they are all in the blink of an eye.

again - DON'T BE FREAKING KINGS FANS!

 

[jbeecham]

Yeah, of course I agree they didn't play well. I am not saying they would have won if the refs were more accurate. But it still sucks to have have so many bad calls during crunch time, especially calls that could change the outcome of the game, isn't that right?

You're right, the refs that are officiating the game influence the outcome of every single game. Every ref has thier own style and what rules they do and don't enforce. Some refs seem pretty favorable to the Suns style of play and with others we lose 60+% of the time. What was very peculiar to me was the way the officiating changed during game 3........the game was called very tight in the 1st qtr with the Suns getting 9 ft's (they even called a defensive 3 second call on the Mavs), then after Josh Howard flagrants TT in the 2nd, all the call started going to the Mavs. Then after halftime, the refs stopped calling pretty much everything and swallowed their whistles. We shot 9ft's in the 1st, 2ft's in the 2nd on the flagrant foul and then only 2fts in the entire 2nd half. The refs made a decision to change how they were calling the game after halftime (whether they were instructed to do so or chose to do so themselves).

Unfortuantely, complaining about the refs won't get you very far on this board, no matter how bad the officiating is. There are too many people here that believe the Suns should be able to overcome the officiating every single night, no matter how bad or inconsistent or how many jumpballs are awarded to the Lakers. They think that complaining about an obvious flaw in the game is a trademark of a weak fan and will call you a Kings fan (because apparently the Kings fans complain about officiating more than any other fan in the NBA). Even if the officiating was so bad that the Suns shot 70% and scored 120 pts and lost because of bad officiating, cheesebeef would still tell you that the Suns should have played better and shot 75% to deserve to win to overcome the officiating and then he'd call you a Kings fan (his signature line).

 

[Cheesebeef]

You're right, the refs that are officiating the game influence the outcome of every single game. Every ref has thier own style and what rules they do and don't enforce. Some refs seem pretty favorable to the Suns style of play and with others we lose 60+% of the time. What was very peculiar to me was the way the officiating changed during game 3........the game was called very tight in the 1st qtr with the Suns getting 9 ft's (they even called a defensive 3 second call on the Mavs), then after Josh Howard flagrants TT in the 2nd, all the call started going to the Mavs. Then after halftime, the refs stopped calling pretty much everything and swallowed their whistles. We shot 9ft's in the 1st, 2ft's in the 2nd on the flagrant foul and then only 2fts in the entire 2nd half. The refs made a decision to change how they were calling the game after halftime (whether they were instructed to do so or chose to do so themselves).

Unfortuantely, complaining about the refs won't get you very far on this board, no matter how bad the officiating is. There are too many people here that believe the Suns should be able to overcome the officiating every single night, no matter how bad or inconsistent or how many jumpballs are awarded to the Lakers. They think that complaining about an obvious flaw in the game is a trademark of a weak fan and will call you a Kings fan (because apparently the Kings fans complain about officiating more than any other fan in the NBA). Even if the officiating was so bad that the Suns shot 70% and scored 120 pts and lost because of bad officiating, cheesebeef would still tell you that the Suns should have played better and shot 75% to deserve to win to overcome the officiating and then he'd call you a Kings fan (his signature line).

You are really out to lunch - the refs "made a decision to chantge the way they called the games (whether they were instructed to do so or chose to do so themselves)." is this serious? Are you really this much of a loser deep down inside? I ask that question because only LOSERS complain about the refs rather than looking at what's really going on - which is we are very shorthanded, none of our guys go to the rack (thus, no FTs).. but yeah, there's some conspriacy out there against the team the nba COULD ONLY DREAM TO HAVE IN THE FINALS - yeah, I'm sure David Stern would hate to have a team running and gunning and scoring 110 + points a game in the Finals and the league is giving preferential treatment to an team who's owner unleashes hell on the refs. I mean that makes perfect sense - if I were doing a job and some complete moron started giving me a whole mess of crap, of course I would all of a sudden bow down to that moron and make him want to like me by giving him calls - yeah, right.

this is ridiculous - whinning about the refs is what LOSERS do. They're not out to get us and to think that and not realize that we are very shorthanded and not playing well, just means you like to make excuses because reality is juts too hard to swallow. Are you like this with the rest of your life as well? Things go wrong and you always look at someone else to blame it on because you are a toomuch of a loser to admit your own shortcomings? I feel sorry for people like you.

 

[Chaplin]

this is ridiculous - whinning about the refs is what LOSERS do. They're not out to get us and to think that and not realize that we are very shorthanded and not playing well, just means you like to make excuses because reality is juts too hard to swallow. Are you like this with the rest of your life as well? Things go wrong and you always look at someone else to blame it on because you are a toomuch of a loser to admit your own shortcomings? I feel sorry for people like you.

Chill out, cheese. You complain all the time about people whining, but you do the same thing! People can question the officiating, there's no law against it. Now if they start saying that the officials completely made the Suns lose the game, then there is room for argument. But there is NO denying that officials can hinder the momentum of a team and affect, at least indirectly, the outcome of a game.

From what I can tell from this thread, nobody has outright claimed that the refs cost the Suns the game (I mentioned something about it in another thread, but that was premature and anger talking), yet you are screaming (i.e. CAPS LOCK ON) at Suns fans that point out some of the falacies of the officiating. I'm sure there are just as many points that can be made on the Dallas side of the court as well.

But is it worth constantly calling people out over it?

 

[Esther]

NO, cheesebeef, complaining about ref calls is not being a loser. It's a desire to have justice. I want fair calls for both sides. The current system of officiating is plain bad and ineffective. If fans of every team have reason to think the calls go against their team, doesn't that say something about the officiating system? NBA please clean this up. Let's have fair and square games. Famed players shouldn't get more calls for them because of "respect". Refs should be reviewed for their track record of good and bad calls, and get promoted/deprecated accordingly.

 

[nowagimp]

I dont know whats worse, the whining about the officials or the whining about those who whine about the officials. Admittedly, NBA officiating has been as consistently bad as I've ever seen it this year, with at least 8-9 game deciding blown calls in all the playoffs. Maybe the old guys have gone blind, maybe its just incompetence, but all teams have to deal with it in some way. The Mavs may have gotten some calls against the Spurs and Suns, but they arent done yet, the turn of the screw is not complete. The suns dont really have enough players to really compete in a long series anyway, regardless of calls. Just be glad that the officials didnt take the championship away from the suns. This year the Bell tolled for the suns, and it wasnt the officials.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Chill out, cheese. You complain all the time about people whining, but you do the same thing! People can question the officiating, there's no law against it. Now if they start saying that the officials completely made the Suns lose the game, then there is room for argument. But there is NO denying that officials can hinder the momentum of a team and affect, at least indirectly, the outcome of a game.

From what I can tell from this thread, nobody has outright claimed that the refs cost the Suns the game (I mentioned something about it in another thread, but that was premature and anger talking), yet you are screaming (i.e. CAPS LOCK ON) at Suns fans that point out some of the falacies of the officiating. I'm sure there are just as many points that can be made on the Dallas side of the court as well.

But is it worth constantly calling people out over it?

uh, yes?

And who's saying they can't complain - they can - and I can rip them for doing so, just like people rip me for banging on Marion when he wets the bed (which thankfully hasn't been the case most of the playoffs, and I expect him to rebound from a pretty poor/energyless Gamed 3).

And are you serious - the entire thread is BAD CALLS - I'm sorry, I think a thread titled Bad Calls is put up for one reason and one reason only - the blame the refs for our loss - call me crazy.

And as far as CAPS LOCK on - just because you're making a point of emphasis in a statement (to lazy to figure out how to use italics) doesn't mean anyone's screaming - it's just that I think some people have their head up their asses and needed bigger words in some places to get the picture.

 

[jbeecham]

You are really out to lunch - the refs "made a decision to chantge the way they called the games (whether they were instructed to do so or chose to do so themselves)." is this serious? Are you really this much of a loser deep down inside? I ask that question because only LOSERS complain about the refs rather than looking at what's really going on - which is we are very shorthanded, none of our guys go to the rack (thus, no FTs).. but yeah, there's some conspriacy out there against the team the nba COULD ONLY DREAM TO HAVE IN THE FINALS - yeah, I'm sure David Stern would hate to have a team running and gunning and scoring 110 + points a game in the Finals and the league is giving preferential treatment to an team who's owner unleashes hell on the refs. I mean that makes perfect sense - if I were doing a job and some complete moron started giving me a whole mess of crap, of course I would all of a sudden bow down to that moron and make him want to like me by giving him calls - yeah, right.

this is ridiculous - whinning about the refs is what LOSERS do. They're not out to get us and to think that and not realize that we are very shorthanded and not playing well, just means you like to make excuses because reality is juts too hard to swallow. Are you like this with the rest of your life as well? Things go wrong and you always look at someone else to blame it on because you are a toomuch of a loser to admit your own shortcomings? I feel sorry for people like you.

Calling me a loser or a Kings fan over and over again doesn't do anything to change my opinions. Show me some evidence that the refs didn't change the way the game 3 was called mid-stream. Go chart the fouls and foul shots taken over the course of the game. The refs stopped calling fouls and violations against BOTH TEAMS in the 2nd half. It had a worse effect on the Suns than the Mavs because the Mavs adjusted to it better and played a more physical game from that point on. I stated in threads before this that the Suns are to blame for not taking advantage of this (or not recognizing it like the mavs did), but the game changed and the few plays that seemed obvious like balls knocked out of bounds by Mavs with possession given to the Mavs, self-passes not called, shot clock violations (that others have also complained about) all went in Dallas's favor. I agree the Suns didn't play well at all and looked tired, but I also think the officiating gave the Mavs an advatage that they fully exploited and yet we still we were close the entire game.

 

[elindholm]

it's just that I think some people have their head up their asses and needed bigger words in some places to get the picture.

LOL, do you actually think using capital letters makes it more likely that someone will agree with your point? Seriously? That's among the funniest things I've ever read. "Gee, I thought this guy was full of it, but then I realized he was using CAPS LOCK!"

 

[Cheesebeef]

NO, cheesebeef, complaining about ref calls is not being a loser. It's a desire to have justice. I want fair calls for both sides. The current system of officiating is plain bad and ineffective. If fans of every team have reason to think the calls go against their team, doesn't that say something about the officiating system?

are you kidding me? If Fans of EVERY team, like you said, think calls are going against them, then guess what - NO ONE IS GETTING AN ADVANTAGE. And if fans, who have passion taking over rationality (and this includes me) in their thoughts, believe what you say in the above, it doesn't say jack squat about the officiating system - it says that no one can watch with an unbiased eye because it's simply not possible that every team is getting screwed.

Again - complaining about the referees just screams loser to me - that's my opinion and it's probably the opinion of most anyone who's ever played sports at any level and been successful in them. Otherwise, I figure you to be someone who was never good enough to compete and just always blamed someone else for your shortcomings - that's okay - you can be that person, but it don't mean you're not gonna get ripped on for being so.

 

[Chaplin]

uh, yes?

And who's saying they can't complain - they can - and I can rip them for doing so, just like people rip me for banging on Marion when he wets the bed (which thankfully hasn't been the case most of the playoffs, and I expect him to rebound from a pretty poor/energyless Gamed 3).

And are you serious - the entire thread is BAD CALLS - I'm sorry, I think a thread titled Bad Calls is put up for one reason and one reason only - the blame the refs for our loss - call me crazy.

And as far as CAPS LOCK on - just because you're making a point of emphasis in a statement (to lazy to figure out how to use italics) doesn't mean anyone's screaming - it's just that I think some people have their head up their asses and needed bigger words in some places to get the picture.

You're calling people loser, that's not exactly keeping in the spirit of the board (especially recently), is it?

Again, nobody has said that the refs are to blame for the loss--they have pointed out some bad calls. If you don't think they were bad calls, that's one thing, but to turn around and proclaim that everyone is a Kings fan because (even though they never claim it) they blame the refs for the loss is alarmist at best. Every single NBA game has bad calls in it. Why is it unusual for someone to list what they are in this particular game?

 

[SactownSunsFan]

Wouldn't that be Sacramento East?

Technically you're both right- Sacramento SouthEast

 

[Esther]

NO, cheesebeef. A thread entitled 'bad calls' means it's a thread about bad calls, in which I talked about some calls that were bad.

Maybe in your universe "no one is getting an advantage" is good enough for you. But there is such a thing as a standard of excellence to adhere to regardless of your personal advantage. If I interpret you correctly, you are saying two wrongs makes a right.

 

[Mavzy]

NO, cheesebeef, complaining about ref calls is not being a loser. It's a desire to have justice. I want fair calls for both sides. The current system of officiating is plain bad and ineffective. If fans of every team have reason to think the calls go against their team, doesn't that say something about the officiating system? NBA please clean this up. Let's have fair and square games. Famed players shouldn't get more calls for them because of "respect". Refs should be reviewed for their track record of good and bad calls, and get promoted/deprecated accordingly.

LOL, Sounds like Cuban.....but he gets ripped for wanting the same thing, fairness both ways. Yes fouls can change the ebb and flow of a game, but as long as the refs are calling it the same way, the teams must adjust;

Go chart the fouls and foul shots taken over the course of the game. The refs stopped calling fouls and violations against BOTH TEAMS in the 2nd half. It had a worse effect on the Suns than the Mavs because the Mavs adjusted to it better and played a more physical game from that point on. I stated in threads before this that the Suns are to blame for not taking advantage of this (or not recognizing it like the mavs did)

For the series the Suns have been called for 61 fouls and the Mavs for 54 fouls a difference of 7 fouls over three games. Game 2 was the only lopsided game Suns 25 Mavs 11. Games 1 and 3 the Mavs were called for more fouls. It's about game adjustments.