Bad O line or Bad Coaching?

[100%CardsFan]

I see alot of talent on the O line but they have been playing really bad with sparatic showings of being a good line. Was it the coaching or do they just suck? Is this a make or break year for the O line?

 

[Red Air Force]

I don't know. I remember an article or something quoting Dexter that when he first got here, and was trying to show the team how they did things in Tampa, he was stopped by a couple of players who said "this isn't Tampa Bay, this is Arizona, that's not the way we do it here."

Somewhere on the team, this attitude exists. If we wan't to move foward, this player or players needs to be removed.

 

[Snakester]

Originally posted by 100%CardsFan
I see alot of talent on the O line but they have been playing really bad with sparatic showings of being a good line. Was it the coaching or do they just suck? Is this a make or break year for the O line?

I thought BIG and Kendall played at a probowl level all year. Anthony Clement was beat often and should be replaced or moved to guard. Shelton had a few bad games but was solid most of the season. Spikes played really well the first half of the year, but got worse and worse the last half. I don't know if he was playing hurt and that was the reason for the decline in play or what. Garcia is strickly backup material.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Re: Re: Bad O line or Bad Coaching?

Originally posted by Snakester
I thought BIG and Kendall played at a probowl level all year. Anthony Clement was beat often and should be replaced or moved to guard. Shelton had a few bad games but was solid most of the season. Spikes played really well the first half of the year, but got worse and worse the last half. I don't know if he was playing hurt and that was the reason for the decline in play or what. Garcia is strickly backup material.

I dont think Kendell or Big player pro bowl all year. The first 2 games (especially Detroit) Kendell got beat like he stole something. He was awful. He played well later on but Pro bow? nah

Big didnt play well all year IMO. He seemed slow and got beat on pass plays a lot. His run blocking seemed solid but he needs to get in better shape or work on getting quicker.

 

[100%CardsFan]

Re: Re: Re: Bad O line or Bad Coaching?

Originally posted by LVCARDFREAK
I dont think Kendell or Big player pro bowl all year. The first 2 games (especially Detroit) Kendell got beat like he stole something. He was awful. He played well later on but Pro bow? nah

Big didnt play well all year IMO. He seemed slow and got beat on pass plays a lot. His run blocking seemed solid but he needs to get in better shape or work on getting quicker.

I would have to agree. Big looked like he was on roller skates in Dallas.

 

[DeAnna]

Originally posted by CaliforniaCard
I don't know. I remember an article or something quoting Dexter that when he first got here, and was trying to show the team how they did things in Tampa, he was stopped by a couple of players who said "this isn't Tampa Bay, this is Arizona, that's not the way we do it here."

Somewhere on the team, this attitude exists. If we wan't to move foward, this player or players needs to be removed.

In essence (I believe) that is the main problem here, period.

 

[JeffGollin]

Probably a combination of things; including possibly - .

- Poor execution (from poor coaching)

- Faulty techniques (from poor coaching)

- Confusion (from poor blocking schemes, unclear direction and poor coaching)

- Hidden injuries (I suspect Leonard may have played when he shouldn't have)

- Lack of concentration (players' fault. coaches for not riding them)

- Poor preparation for noisy stadiums (coaching)

- If there was lack of talent, I think it wasn't lack of physical talent but poor execution by guys who had the raw talent but weren't utilizing it to fullest potential.

- With the exception of 2 or 3 games, lack of a "take no prisoners; let's just blacktop 'em" attitude by the entire O-line (players, coaching staff).

 

[tigertat]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
Probably a

- With the exception of 2 or 3 games, lack of a "take no prisoners; let's just blacktop 'em" attitude by the entire O-line (players, coaching staff).

I think this is the biggest problem. This oline has all of the talent and physical attributes, but are all soft. This oline needs to install a nasty attitude like the Broncos oline. They are always known as one of the best olines in the league and at the same time dlinemen think off them as the dirtiest and nastiest as well. Same goes for the Ravens oline.

 

[CardsFan88]

Originally posted by CaliforniaCard
"this isn't Tampa Bay, this is Arizona, that's not the way we do it here."

Somewhere on the team, this attitude exists. If we wan't to move foward, this player or players needs to be removed.

Hilarious, how a inconsistent OL on an under .500 team performs they feel like that.

It's good to have confidence in yourself, but you shouldn't shut out remarks by a teammate like that.......(Dexter Jackson is thinking as he buffs his superbowl ring while walking away)

 

[Northern Card]

Re: Re: Bad O line or Bad Coaching?

Originally posted by Snakester
I thought BIG and Kendall played at a probowl level all year. Anthony Clement was beat often and should be replaced or moved to guard. Shelton had a few bad games but was solid most of the season. Spikes played really well the first half of the year, but got worse and worse the last half. I don't know if he was playing hurt and that was the reason for the decline in play or what. Garcia is strickly backup material.

Did Big ever miss picking up a stunt?
Did any of our TEs miss their blocking assignments when lined up on the right?
Did any of our RBs miss their blocking assignments?
Did our QB ever not step up in the pocket when he should have?
Did our QB ever hold on to the ball too long (perhaps because our WO couldn't get free)?

If the answer to all of these Qs is "no"... then it's all on Clement.

Do you actually think, after watching Big get beat by every speed rusher he faced when he subed for Clement, that he is a better RT?

I don't... and fully expect they'll be side by side filling the same roles come September...

 

[conraddobler]

I think some of the Defensive players we faced this year and I am almost positive it was a Dallas player who said it, pretty much summed it up.

He said basically, "yeah they are big but they aren't very athletic"

This translates into speed rushers just run the gaps and around them.

This problem won't go away with just coaching. I think it is a problem you could fix by benching Clement, leave Big at one guard spot and get another very athletic RT either in the draft of in FA.

One fix would be to draft a center and move Kendall back to guard so that you have Shelton Kendal Drafted Center Big and FA RT. I think the two new players have to be mean as snakes and athletic rather than so large and you have a rock solid line if Big's ankle is better. That is my opinion anyway.

I think it just takes the right mix to allow the line to gel, right now they are shaded way too big and not athletic enough you need some athletes especially at the center, one guard slot and one tackle slot. We already probably have one of the three we need on the roster but will have to add two more from outside to make it work.

 

[100%CardsFan]

Big is mean as hell, After he choke slammed Mike Brown from the Bears two years ago when Brown tried to do a saftey blitz Mike layed on the ground and asked "Big" "Why did you have to do that' and Big just responded by standing over him and shaking his finger saying "Dont come in here" .. "Dont come in here"
I loved that.

 

[Red Air Force]

Originally posted by CardsFan88
Hilarious, how a inconsistent OL on an under .500 team performs they feel like that.

It's good to have confidence in yourself, but you shouldn't shut out remarks by a teammate like that.......(Dexter Jackson is thinking as he buffs his superbowl ring while walking away)

No it wasn't confidence, it was a "we've got ourselves country club here, don't think you're gonna come in here and change that."

 

[DevonCardsFan]

I say it's a combo of bad coaching and being over rated

 

[football24/7]

I think its both. This line has talent, but has not come close to being the consistent powerhouse we all expect. Secondly, the coaching must be suspect. The Ravens have the biggest line in football, and look at the numbers they produce on the ground. We have to be dam close to size with the ravens, and the results are light years behind. One reason I think the Ravens O-line is successful, simple. They practice against number 52 everyday. Say what you want about Lewis, but he has put his stamp on that team, on both sides of the ball. You will eithier get mean and aggressive practicing everyday against that defense, or you will be gone. This team is lacking that true "mean streak" . With Green in place, there are no more free rides, no more malcontents. Time to suck it up, and separate the men from the boys!!

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Originally posted by 100%CardsFan
Big is mean as hell, After he choke slammed Mike Brown from the Bears two years ago when Brown tried to do a saftey blitz Mike layed on the ground and asked "Big" "Why did you have to do that' and Big just responded by standing over him and shaking his finger saying "Dont come in here" .. "Dont come in here"
I loved that.

Big body slammed a CB during one of the last two games. They were tangled up on the ground after a play, and the CB gave him a little jab as both were trying to get up. Big proceeded to introduce the CB to the turf. Pretty funny.

I watched the oline pretty carefully during the season, often focusing on each individual OL player (using tivo) for each play to see if they missed/made their blocks. My season grades are:

RT: Clement: D+, he got beat a lot on pass blocks, average at run blocking. He's the weak link (Sorry Tony!). He's either going to have to improve, move, get into the groove....something.

RG: Davis: B-, lets remember that he was hurt a lot. The finger in preseason, and then his ankle early in the year. That ankle might have bothered him all year. Anyway, he dominated at times, but got beat badly on pass blocks occasionally. Also, he was sometimes a step late getting to an LB on "second level" run blocks. Did have some quality pancakes.

Center: Kendell: B Solid play. Good pass blocking and good run blocking. Nice adjustment to the center position. Pro bowl? Thats stretching it a little. Not much though.

LG: Spikes: B, Also solid. good job on pulling assignments. I noticed they were more apt to pull Spikes than Big. Didn't miss many pass blocks.

LT: Shelton: B, Kind of a quite year for LJ on the field. Not many penalties. Didn't get beat on pass blocks much. Stayed on his run blocks pretty well.

Overall, I think our line played good this year. Not great, or even pretty good. But good. The problem is that for all the high draft choices and money, we need more than just good.

I still believe this group can be dominating. They showed flashes of it during this season, like at home against San Fran. I bet Denny and the new OL coach are looking forward to the opportunity to coach these guys.