Battling perceptions in the NFC West

[CardLogic]

Another good piece from Mike Sando:

KTAR radio's Doug Franz and Ron Wolfley just finished grilling me medium rare over the far-flung (to them) notion that the San Francisco 49ers should be favored in the NFC West this season.

They think the 49ers face at least as many questions as the Arizona Cardinals, from Alex Smith's abilities as a starting quarterback to the effects of playing two rookies on the offensive line.

Our conversation pointed to something I wrestle with all the time: perception vs. reality.

Read the rest:
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/22974/battling-perceptions-in-the-nfc-west

 

[Shane]

Good level headed write up!

 

[THESMEL]

Alex Smith is not the antichrist on ESPN, He just isn't worth the time.
I mean alot of players was in Deuces position, in the end
you get what you give.
This 2010 Cards has been the most insane offseason in the the history of earth.
Favre was a papercut on this Cards fans roller coaster ride.
We are what We are now. I hope we reveal as decent product on the the field, that has a chance to develope into a playoff team.

We were a playoff team before hurricane Saints destroyed us.

 

[BigRedRage]

Alex Smith is not the antichrist on ESPN, He just isn't worth the time.
I mean alot of players was in Deuces position, in the end
you get what you give.
This 2010 Cards has been the most insane offseason in the the history of earth.
Favre was a papercut on this Cards fans roller coaster ride.
We are what We are now. I hope we reveal as decent product on the the field, that has a chance to develope into a playoff team.

We were a playoff team before hurricane Saints destroyed us.

I think we had a pretty normal offseason, you were not around for 1998 were you?

 

[Monty]

Sando is one of the better NFL writers imo and we are lucky to have him writing about us so regularly so that we get a more sensible appraisal of the team then the garbage that most national writers spout about us whether positive or negative.

I personally dont agree with Sando's favoring the 9'ers but i can see why he does. He feels they have had less upheaval and turnover on their roster which is fair but i also think that the changes we have made shouldnt be downplayed for the mere fact they are changes. Like his theory i believe the perception that the changes are necessarily gonna make us weaker i believe the percepion could very well be different from the reality.

 

[john h]

Sando is one of the better NFL writers imo and we are lucky to have him writing about us so regularly so that we get a more sensible appraisal of the team then the garbage that most national writers spout about us whether positive or negative.

I personally dont agree with Sando's favoring the 9'ers but i can see why he does. He feels they have had less upheaval and turnover on their roster which is fair but i also think that the changes we have made shouldnt be downplayed for the mere fact they are changes. Like his theory i believe the perception that the changes are necessarily gonna make us weaker i believe the percepion could very well be different from the reality.

When teams are fairly close in ability like the Cards and Rams it will be turnovers and interceptions and the way the ball bounces that will make the difference. You can give the Rams an extra 3 points because of home field. Both teams go into this with unknown QB abilities. I am very glad we have a QB who has played in the NFL for a few years. One of those years he was very good so he has it in him somewhere. Let us hope he finds it in ST Louis. I am still angry at St Louis for letting the Cards get away. At the time there was no Direct TV and the Cards were the team that was on TV where I lived. St Louis was a baseball town and could care less about the Cards.

 

[stewdog1]

When teams are fairly close in ability like the Cards and Rams it will be turnovers and interceptions and the way the ball bounces that will make the difference. You can give the Rams an extra 3 points because of home field. Both teams go into this with unknown QB abilities. I am very glad we have a QB who has played in the NFL for a few years. One of those years he was very good so he has it in him somewhere. Let us hope he finds it in ST Louis. I am still angry at St Louis for letting the Cards get away. At the time there was no Direct TV and the Cards were the team that was on TV where I lived. St Louis was a baseball town and could care less about the Cards.

You actually think the Cards and Rams are close in ability? Seriously?

 

[john h]

You actually think the Cards and Rams are close in ability? Seriously?

Yes! Seriously I do. We have won two division titles in a row. That is a fact. Warner is not here but it takes more than the QB to go to the Superbowl. When the Rams win the division they can say they have ability and are better than the Cards. Until then, they are a team that was behind the Cards in the standings in the past two years no matter where they beat us or not. Those are the facts. Let us see the year play out.

 

[THESMEL]

yea

My mom's only Cards game with me, we was right behind the goal post at SDS when we made the field goal to the playoffs. She loved the little DB Mclusky or something? My biggest brain freeze ever is did that go to OT or was it the end of regulation?

anyhow I have the Card insider mag from that game but of course it didn't have the outcome. everybody went hush and mom blurted out in her harsh voice" well if they can't play any better than that they don't belong in the playoffs anyway!" fans turned and looked at us with tombstones in their eyes! I come by it naturally as a 5th generation Arizona Pioneer.

The difference in this offseason and that is large to me. Not just Plummer getting full confidence and the highest paid contract in history, while we let everyone else go. But they were not nearly as talented as this cardinals team at the end of 2009 when the saints destroyed us.

Our Dline was great in 98 but they underachieved IMO. AW was Aneas Williams and Corey Chavous was an exciting rookie. I had favorites like F. Sanders, Mckinnon. Mark Smith. Plummer was not my favorite, He was exciting because he was in panic 75% of the time as the wild cards.

like I said it was not what happened this offseason but how it was done.
there are some proven Cards 2nd tier talent that are not signed while we signed pro bowlers AW and DD. fitz is the only other drafted card signed since Whiz came 4 years ago. just a fact, and a lockout is probable next year.

So yea I was in the stands and I was there prior and after that playoff season ad nauseum. I wish that Rolle and Dansby wanted to stay for the same money. Q was offered more by the Cards and left. Rhodes was a trade and i just don't see players lining up to come play for US Arizona Cards fans. for love nor money?

We filled the stands, we have success against ESPN's will, signed coach long term to top money, graves too! yet that is the final piece of culture change? the market is large enough, weathers great, John Lott is high profile attractive offsean trainer?

Maybe in time, maybe I'm missing something, Our offensive core is THT, Fitz and DA? I have more hope heading into sunday but alot less than I had going into preseason. I was full of hope opening day 99 and every year.

I think we had a pretty normal offseason, you were not around for 1998 were you?

 

[OmeneX]

Yes! Seriously I do. We have won two division titles in a row. That is a fact. Warner is not here but it takes more than the QB to go to the Superbowl. When the Rams win the division they can say they have ability and are better than the Cards. Until then, they are a team that was behind the Cards in the standings in the past two years no matter where they beat us or not. Those are the facts. Let us see the year play out.

Wait. Everything you pointed out as fact pretty much has the Cardinals being the better team, not equal with the Rams. Break it down better to prove why they are equal teams in your opinion. I'm genuinely curious. Go Big Red!

 

[THESMEL]

If i may

Don't know what the cards are or will develope into but the entire NFCW should rise from the celler. Niners are developing right old school, Seahawks are rebuilding but Pete knows football, Spag is a good coach for the Rams.

9ers and Seahawks had 2 first round picks and Rams overall # 1 Bradford. Bradford is a good NFL QB better than #1 overall Smith. But it is the many early round and early in each round draft picks over these last few years that I expect will eventually provide players experienced and as talented as the cardinals.

We have a longer list of draft picks that haven't worked out this opening day than the last few years. BJ, Matt, Buster Davis, cdy Brown it's all starting to add up to the Rams draft problems. We are starting 3- 33 YO ex steelers?

We have had alot of talent unsigned long term, Dansby, Rolle, Q, R Wells and we have alot of talent on one year tenders because of the CBA. Lyle, Deuce, Breaston, THT and more. who is our future OLB's? Obrien and Will Davis? We signed many!

Thank God We have Beanie, AW, DD and Fitz for 2 more years. Our dominance window is closing, If not this year, an Owners strike may finish us off.

I felt we were more talented across the final 53 before this year, I don't think so now, but We are more experienced regardless of Toler and DWASH, So I take the talent grades at each position and average them across the final 53 and expect talent to leave after this year and our future looks less than dominant in the NFCW.

unless the Whizard can kiss alot of frogs and make them princes The NFCW is catching up!

I'll show up anyhow but thats some reasons. I'm discomfortable until I see the Cards produce against live bullets.

Wait. Everything you pointed out as fact pretty much has the Cardinals being the better team, not equal with the Rams. Break it down better to prove why they are equal teams in your opinion. I'm genuinely curious. Go Big Red!

 

[stewdog1]

Yes! Seriously I do. We have won two division titles in a row. That is a fact. Warner is not here but it takes more than the QB to go to the Superbowl. When the Rams win the division they can say they have ability and are better than the Cards. Until then, they are a team that was behind the Cards in the standings in the past two years no matter where they beat us or not. Those are the facts. Let us see the year play out.

This doesn't make sense. Your facts don't line up with the claim that they are close in talent.

 

[Monty]

Yes! Seriously I do. We have won two division titles in a row. That is a fact. Warner is not here but it takes more than the QB to go to the Superbowl. When the Rams win the division they can say they have ability and are better than the Cards. Until then, they are a team that was behind the Cards in the standings in the past two years no matter where they beat us or not. Those are the facts. Let us see the year play out.

Huh? that does not really say that you think they are equal in talent and to be honest doesnt make any sense.

It would be ridicolous to match the Rams up against the Cardinals when it comes to pure talent and ability alone. There is no comparison in two talent pools as the Cardinals have pulled far away from the Rams over the past 5 years or so, but with a slight resurgence by the rams in talent and ability and a relative dip by the Cards does mean the gap might've closed a little. That doenst merit any argument that they are really close to the Cardinals in ability at all though as such an argument would have no grounding whatsoever.

 

[JeffGollin]

It would be ridiculous to match the Rams up against the Cardinals when it comes to pure talent and ability alone.

Define "talent."

If a "less talented" team beats a "more talented" team because of such things as turnovers, penalties a few lucky big plays etc., then guess what:

The less talented team is more talented than the more talented team because eliminating turnovers, avoiding penalties and making big plays at crunch time are elements that go into being a talented football team - and in this example, important enough to have earned a "win."

We actually see relatively little of each player during offseason and preseason - we read the scouting reports on the rookies and maybe see them actually play for less than one quarter;s worth of action (often against the other team's backup units). And you can bet that both our team and our opponents have been hiding stuff to spring on their opponents during the regular season.

Some fans think Sam Bradford will instantly turn into Johnny Unitas. Others feel he'll have to suffer typical rookie QB growing pains. Either view could turn out to be right (with opposite outcomes for the Cardinals). We just don't know.

What I worry about are the unknowns that weren't yet exposed in preseason - kind of like betting heavily on a young knockout artist only to find out too late that he has a glass jaw.

We will see on Sunday which team is the most talented. (I hope the Cardinals will win and "on paper" it looks like they should win. But you can throw all the Kool-Aid and Dark-Sider Voodoo into the trash can - because the we'll find out the real answer on Sunday.

Then and only then will we know which team is more "talented."

 

[Duckjake]

Define "talent."

If a "less talented" team beats a "more talented" team because of such things as turnovers, penalties a few lucky big plays etc., then guess what:

The less talented team is more talented than the more talented team because eliminating turnovers, avoiding penalties and making big plays at crunch time are elements that go into being a talented football team - and in this example, important enough to have earned a "win."

We actually see relatively little of each player during offseason and preseason - we read the scouting reports on the rookies and maybe see them actually play for less than one quarter;s worth of action (often against the other team's backup units). And you can bet that both our team and our opponents have been hiding stuff to spring on their opponents during the regular season.

Some fans think Sam Bradford will instantly turn into Johnny Unitas. Others feel he'll have to suffer typical rookie QB growing pains. Either view could turn out to be right (with opposite outcomes for the Cardinals). We just don't know.

What I worry about are the unknowns that weren't yet exposed in preseason - kind of like betting heavily on a young knockout artist only to find out too late that he has a glass jaw.

We will see on Sunday which team is the most talented. (I hope the Cardinals will win and "on paper" it looks like they should win. But you can throw all the Kool-Aid and Dark-Sider Voodoo into the trash can - because the we'll find out the real answer on Sunday.

Then and only then will we know which team is more "talented."

Wrong. Then we'll only see which team won the game.

Which isn't always the team that is bigger, stronger, and faster, has receivers with better hands, defensive players with better natural tackling ability, etc. which is talent.

It isn't even always the team that is better coached/prepared which is where you find the elimination of turnovers, penalties and other mistakes.

But it usually is.