Bob Knight calls out Texas on Durant and the new rule

[Russ Smith]

Seems pretty clear Bobby is suggesting Durant is doing precisely what he talks about here, without coming right out and making the allegation.

I do agree in theory he's right and kids absolutely will do what he is talking about and skip school once basketball is over. No idea if Durant will but I don't know if Knight singled him out, or simply was asked about Durant and gave his answer to that question?




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Many coaches have said this new approach is a blessing for the college game, because it lets NCAA schools showcase their abilities for at least one season. But Knight, the winningest college coach of all time, said he dislikes it.

"Because now you can have a kid come to school for a year and play basketball and he doesn't even have to go to class," Knight said Monday. "He certainly doesn't have to go to class the second semester. I'm not exactly positive about the first semester. But he would not have to attend a single class the second semester to play through the whole second semester of basketball.

"That, I think, has a tremendous effect on the integrity of college sports."

No player better exemplifies the new rule than Durant. Amazingly quick, agile and athletic for an 18-year-old, the 6-foot-9 Durant would have been a surefire NBA lottery pick any other year. But he had to find a college to play for. He chose Texas and perhaps will be remembered as the greatest to ever wear a Longhorns uniform, even though he seems likely to vault into the NBA after a sensational freshman season.

He has been named Big 12 player of the week three times and conference rookie of the week five times. He leads the league with 24.9 points and 11.4 rebounds per game and has a good chance at being national player of the year.

Knight said he would never have recruited Durant, although he doesn't blame Texas coach Rick Barnes for doing so. "I don't fault those that have, because it's within the rules," Knight said. "But the rules are just ridiculous, the way the thing is set up."

"It's just a tremendous disservice, the way that it's structured, to the integrity of college sports."

Barnes, who did not hear what Knight said earlier on the Big 12 coaches call, said he did not recruit Durant as a one-semester student.

"All we've ever said is if we recruit a player and that player said to us, 'I'm coming to school for one year and as soon as basketball season is over with I'm dropping out of school,' we would not recruit that player," he said.

"We cannot afford to jeopardize our program in that way. We want players that if they're going to come, we want them committed to a whole year academically. We tell them that's what's expected coming in."

 

[Dback Jon]

Interesting take - how would the NCAA stop it?

 

[Russ Smith]

Interesting take - how would the NCAA stop it?

That's the common response if the rule was 2 years, they'd drop out at 1.5.

Look now at all the kids preparing for the NFL combine, they all dropped out
of school if they left early like say Marshawn Lynch.

About the only way to stop it is is to count dropouts like that against a school so that they at some point get penalized for recruiting too many. The rule kind of does that now with grad rates, but it does nothing to prevent a school from taking a kid like durant for one semester.

About all you can do is cut scholarships on a school that has too many cases like that. and of course it will take a few years for it to become clear if it is really happening or not. I'm sure it will happen.

 

[SO91]

Interesting how the amount of money the coach makes has absolutely no logical place in an argument like this

 

[Mulli]

Interesting how the amount of money the coach makes has absolutely no logical place in an argument like this

I just thought it sort of related. Kid wants to make money by going to the NBA. Coach squawks about it. The schools and their coaches make a lot of money of these kids. When the kids want to get theirs, I can't get to worked up about how it hurts college bball.

 

[Dback Jon]

That's the common response if the rule was 2 years, they'd drop out at 1.5.

Look now at all the kids preparing for the NFL combine, they all dropped out
of school if they left early like say Marshawn Lynch.

About the only way to stop it is is to count dropouts like that against a school so that they at some point get penalized for recruiting too many. The rule kind of does that now with grad rates, but it does nothing to prevent a school from taking a kid like durant for one semester.

About all you can do is cut scholarships on a school that has too many cases like that. and of course it will take a few years for it to become clear if it is really happening or not. I'm sure it will happen.

Agreed it happens in football - one big difference is that the football season is over before the second semester starts. In basketball, you are playing most of the semester.

 

[Mulli]

As for the not going to class issue, if I was going pro, I wouldn't go either. Had a hard enough time getting to class as it was.

 

[SO91]

He was criticizing the rule that allows a kid to not go to class his second semester and still be able to play basketball. Not Durant's desire to turn pro and make as much money as he can.

 

[Mulli]

He was criticizing the rule that allows a kid to not go to class his second semester and still be able to play basketball. Not Durant's desire to turn pro and make as much money as he can.

Got it, but isn't this to be expected. I can understand how the motivation to go to class wouldn't be there.

nevermind

 

[Scot1]

I sympathize with Knight, but I think he's carping about one wrinkle of the problem. Whether the rules allow NBA jumps by HS students, college sophomores, juniors, or seniors, the college player population has 3, maybe 4 types of kids in it: the sure NBA/rich league stars and steady players, the maybes/short-term/minor league players, and the sure also-rans. The first ones are guaranteed super-rich--even if required to stay in college, they don't need to study, most are dummies who take the equivalent of basket-weaving, and they are essentially retired at age 30-40, living like rich retirees thereafter. Even someone unusual like Barkley or Jabbar is just living off his fame and playing around, not doing what the real world would call work. You play in the NBA 3 years, refrain from ridiculously wasting your money, and you are set for retirement. And the chances that they will be persuaded by anyone selling the joys and honors of an intellectual life are about zero. The second group do have some practical motivation to get a degree, and a greater chance of becoming thinking citizens, but between investing time in practicing dunks/free throws and investing in studying chemistry, the economically rational choice is fairly clear. The last group has a stake in studying for a degree, and becomes intellectually alive at about the usual rate of US college students--1 in 20?? Or maybe less due to envy of the future-rich and the consuming effects of sports involvement.

So allowing them to jump after 0 years, one year, 2+, or 4 really is a minor issue--the future-rich jocks are distractions and envy-objects for the 'student-athletes'. The latter would be better off if they nearly all jumped, and all college sports had the glamor of badminton--but I sure would miss the NCAAs, despite the flaws.

 

[Mulli]

I sympathize with Knight, but I think he's carping about one wrinkle of the problem. Whether the rules allow NBA jumps by HS students, college sophomores, juniors, or seniors, the college player population has 3, maybe 4 types of kids in it: the sure NBA/rich league stars and steady players, the maybes/short-term/minor league players, and the sure also-rans. The first ones are guaranteed super-rich--even if required to stay in college, they don't need to study, most are dummies who take the equivalent of basket-weaving, and they are essentially retired at age 30-40, living like rich retirees thereafter. Even someone unusual like Barkley or Jabbar is just living off his fame and playing around, not doing what the real world would call work. You play in the NBA 3 years, refrain from ridiculously wasting your money, and you are set for retirement. And the chances that they will be persuaded by anyone selling the joys and honors of an intellectual life are about zero. The second group do have some practical motivation to get a degree, and a greater chance of becoming thinking citizens, but between investing time in practicing dunks/free throws and investing in studying chemistry, the economically rational choice is fairly clear. The last group has a stake in studying for a degree, and becomes intellectually alive at about the usual rate of US college students--1 in 20?? Or maybe less due to envy of the future-rich and the consuming effects of sports involvement.

So allowing them to jump after 0 years, one year, 2+, or 4 really is a minor issue--the future-rich jocks are distractions and envy-objects for the 'student-athletes'. The latter would be better off if they nearly all jumped, and all college sports had the glamor of badminton--but I sure would miss the NCAAs, despite the flaws.

Well said.

 

[abomb]

Well said.

Ditto. That was a great post.

 

[Russ Smith]

I sympathize with Knight, but I think he's carping about one wrinkle of the problem. Whether the rules allow NBA jumps by HS students, college sophomores, juniors, or seniors, the college player population has 3, maybe 4 types of kids in it: the sure NBA/rich league stars and steady players, the maybes/short-term/minor league players, and the sure also-rans. The first ones are guaranteed super-rich--even if required to stay in college, they don't need to study, most are dummies who take the equivalent of basket-weaving, and they are essentially retired at age 30-40, living like rich retirees thereafter. Even someone unusual like Barkley or Jabbar is just living off his fame and playing around, not doing what the real world would call work. You play in the NBA 3 years, refrain from ridiculously wasting your money, and you are set for retirement. And the chances that they will be persuaded by anyone selling the joys and honors of an intellectual life are about zero. The second group do have some practical motivation to get a degree, and a greater chance of becoming thinking citizens, but between investing time in practicing dunks/free throws and investing in studying chemistry, the economically rational choice is fairly clear. The last group has a stake in studying for a degree, and becomes intellectually alive at about the usual rate of US college students--1 in 20?? Or maybe less due to envy of the future-rich and the consuming effects of sports involvement.

So allowing them to jump after 0 years, one year, 2+, or 4 really is a minor issue--the future-rich jocks are distractions and envy-objects for the 'student-athletes'. The latter would be better off if they nearly all jumped, and all college sports had the glamor of badminton--but I sure would miss the NCAAs, despite the flaws.

I completely agree with your post I just found it funny you mentioned Kareem, who in fact had to extend his career when he filed for bankruptcy because of a bad money manager that lost most of his money. But that was a long time ago and I completely agree these days a few years in the league and you're set for life.

I happened to find ESPN's "Through the Fire" about Telfair on yesterday and watched it start to finish for the first time. I'd read the book and seen pieces of the movie but never the whole thing. When you see a kid who's struggling to get PT on the worst team in the NBA, competing with a rookie PG and Delonte West, you think boy I bet he wishes he'd gone to Louisville.

But then you remember what he got in salary as the 13th pick, and that shoe contract, and you remember even with all the people in his family cashing in off his money, he is still set for life if he's not stupid with his money. So clearly getting up at 4:30 for years to work out before school was completely worth it for him, and his family. Precisely why his younger brother Ethan is doing the same thing now. He was 8 when that movie was shot, he's 11 now.

 

[Southpaw]

IMO Bobby Knight is 100 % correct in bringing this issue up. Some colleges are renting a player, who will get them into the NCAAs, and laughing about it. Players like Durant and Oden make a sham of Intercollegiate sports. These college programs are wasting a scholarship and flaunting the supposed integrity of the sport. This may be one of the few viewpoints I agree with Knight on.

 

[Russ Smith]

IMO Bobby Knight is 100 % correct in bringing this issue up. Some colleges are renting a player, who will get them into the NCAAs, and laughing about it. Players like Durant and Oden make a sham of Intercollegiate sports. These college programs are wasting a scholarship and flaunting the supposed integrity of the sport. This may be one of the few viewpoints I agree with Knight on.

I actually think Oden is being unfairly lumped in there though. Oden has maintained that he was going to college whether they changed the rule or not. Nobody believed him, he literally had to ask schools to recruit him. I guess his mom was quoted as being very angry about the rule change because it took away the OPTION of him going pro, but he says he always intended to start college. I fully expect him to leave after this year, but he claims it's not a lock.

From what I have read on message boards Durant is the poster boy for Knight's comments, the rumor is Durant would be ineligible if he tried to come back next year anyways because of his grades. Next years poster boy might be Mayo if they let him play at all.

That said, when is the last time Bob Knight signed a top 5 rated player? They don't want to play for Knight, haven't for ages, so saying he won't recruit a kid like Durant is a little like me saying I'll give up alcohol, sort of a hollow gesture since I already don't drink.

 

[Southpaw]

I actually think Oden is being unfairly lumped in there though. Oden has maintained that he was going to college whether they changed the rule or not. Nobody believed him, he literally had to ask schools to recruit him. I guess his mom was quoted as being very angry about the rule change because it took away the OPTION of him going pro, but he says he always intended to start college. I fully expect him to leave after this year, but he claims it's not a lock.

From what I have read on message boards Durant is the poster boy for Knight's comments, the rumor is Durant would be ineligible if he tried to come back next year anyways because of his grades. Next years poster boy might be Mayo if they let him play at all.

That said, when is the last time Bob Knight signed a top 5 rated player? They don't want to play for Knight, haven't for ages, so saying he won't recruit a kid like Durant is a little like me saying I'll give up alcohol, sort of a hollow gesture since I already don't drink.

I suggest you are shooting the messenger when you criticize Knight on this one. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to criticize Knight other than this one. The fact remains that there are players out there who are making a mockery of the system and its intent. I would bet the farm that Oden is one and out, but that is just my uneducated guess. If Oden is in class, taking a legitimate course load, and hasn't dropped out this semester, kudos to him, but both you and I are guessing on his intent. Schools like Texas and Ohio State ( and others ) are not above the criticism. When some big school coach comes out and says his school is not a Motel for NBA wannabes, then they can also take the credit.

 

[Skkorpion]

Wally, I disagree. Big time college sport already has no integrity. Particularly basketball. Rent-a-player has been going on for years.

Ever heard Allen Iverson speak? Think he could write a term paper for English 101 at Georgetown and pass the course? I don't. Georgetown is a superior school but they rented Iverson for three years and kept him elligible through cheating, IMO.

Bobby Knight is a hypocrit. The only things that have changed are the length of time you get to rent players (from 3 years down to 1), and now schools don't have to give the kids fake courses or fake grades anymore.

But the real hypocrit is the NBA. I think their artificial rules preventing people from pursueing jobs in the NBA are unconstitutional. If Boston or anybody else wanted to offer Oden a job after highschool, it should be legal.

 

[Mulli]

Grammar? You talking about grammar? Grammar?

/ai