Bread help -Ciabatta

[AZZenny]

Over the holidays, I got into two food projects -- Spanish marzipan and Ciabatta. These permitted me to retool some old or absent kitchen gear, and I had fun. The marzipan -- much lighter and more delicate than northern European, german style -- was superb, almost ethereal at one point, and my kid gave me an almond mill (who knew?!) so the next batch will be perfecto.

But the Ciabatta and I have been wrassling once or twice a week for the past month. Everytime I think I figured it out, and get really close, some other piece goes awry. The part I am having the most trouble with is getting lots of big sloppy bubbles in a non-crumb-textured bread; i.e., not a dense, fine texture.

Does anybody do a lot of serious baking, or know someone who does? What causes bread texture to be fine-crumbed as opposed to sort of coarse? Is it the flour, or the amount of kneading? Could I be getting too much olive oil in it? I have a new stand mixer that I love, a new oven stone for baking, I even got European yeast and a baker's peel which is a PITA actually...

Some recipes call for 5 min kneading in the mixer and some for 12-15. Some call for lower-protein all-purpose flour, some for more bread flour. A few call for a TBSP of dry milk. Some call for 3-4 proofs with very gentle floured fold-and turns (not real kneading) in between, some call for one proof and then rise to bake. The closest one I got was some frustrated melange of all sorts of stuff where I had to rescue the dough halfway and sort of 'remake' because the yeast wasn't working well -- so I have no idea why that worked out, because it was basically all a mistake, but the texture was almost right.

Help.

 

[Linderbee]

Oh, boy. Well, my best advice (and I am limited in Ciabatta experience, unfortunately) would be to use bread flour--it provides a chewier texture than regular flour. The big sloppy bubbles would normally come from too cool of a dough going into your oven (not properly proofed). The sudden high heat causes the gas bubbles formed by the yeast to pretty much explode in your bread. The flip side of that is if you let it proof (or rise, whichever you prefer) too long, you'll get the same problem...if it's a larger-than-you expected loaf with big holes, then it's over-proofed. If it's smaller than expected with large holes, then it's under-proofed.

The crumbly texture I would guess might be too much oil, but not sure.

 

[Pariah]

Sorry, a baker I am not. There's a chance I could have weighed in on anything "stovetop" (the place not the stuffing), but in the oven is uncharted territory for me.

Maybe Schudt could help.

 

[AZZenny]

I'm going to be semi-systematic about it. This time I'm using more bread flour, being real careful about limiting olive-oil in the proofing bowl, and I am going to cheat and sprinkle just a few grains of sugar in when I form the loaves to super-feed a few pockets of yeast.

I read in a foccacia recipe that the amount of steam in the oven when you first put it in to bake at very high heat also makes the gas bubbles explode for more, bigger holes, but you have to be careful not to cool the oven in the process -- something I forgot about the last two times.


Btw -- I got one of those 'edge' brownie pans to make a gooey-crunchy almond coffeecake-bar thing -- it may look like a gimmick, but I am here to testify. If you like crunchy/crusty edges on anything from cheese breads to brownies, this thing is great.

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[schutd]

Wish I could help. Theres a reason Im no pastry chef/baker. Too much detail. I like being able to correct on the fly, not measurethings perfectly, and taste as I go. DOn't even know anyone to ask. Sorry, Zen

 

[AZZenny]

Baking is a whole different thing than cooking, true. Well, mostly bread flour makes the loaf hold its shape too much, but otherwise, it was a little better overall.