Bruce Arians wants his players to play smarter

[Krangodnzr]

How about coaching smarter!!?? Amos Jones anyone? His unit alone cost the team a division title, FCOL.

Arians is treading dangerous teritory with this kind of nonsense. This is how you start losing a team when you're not coaching smart enough.

No. The players on the field failed to execute.

 

[Stout]

No. The players on the field failed to execute.

And Amos failed to coach. Or coached very badly. Either way, he sucked AND the players sucked. Period.

 

[Krangodnzr]

And Amos failed to coach. Or coached very badly. Either way, he sucked AND the players sucked. Period.

Pray tell something schematically that you saw wrong? I'm not defending Amos, but what I saw was players that didnt execute or were poor fits in their assigned duties.

 

[cardncubfan]

And Amos failed to coach. Or coached very badly. Either way, he sucked AND the players sucked. Period.

And how do you know the coaching sucked so badly? Were you at the practices? They could of had the best coaching ever for all we know & the players just failed to execute.

 

[gimpy]

Aww, come on. Really?

 

[JeffGollin]

True "accountability" is when events on the ground sneak up and bite you in the butt and everyone knows what happened.

Coach-defined accountability is more like waiving a red warning flag at a player (& his supporting teammates) in the hope that the problem will be recognized and nipped in the bud before it surfaces & bites us in a real game.

In this spirit, the true measure of the effectiveness of the Accountability list (in terms of how the process translates to the field of play) is how fast the offending deed comes off that list.

 

[Chopper0080]

Belichick has an interesting philosophy on this. He breaks the game down to 3 Qs. 4Q is separated in it's own category as it is purely situational football in his mind. Personally, this is what professional football should focus on. Situations. Red zone offense / defense. Third down/fourth down offense / defense. 4 min drill. 2 min drill. No huddle offense/defense. IMO, first and second downs in between the 20's are all schematic. Where the best teams separate themselves are in the areas outside the general scheme.

I don't see this as a bad thing other than it being a new focus. It should have been the focus the entire time. It is kind of like roster structure. It should be 1-QB, 2a-Protect the QB, 2b-pressure the opposing QB.

 

[WildBB]

Belichick has an interesting philosophy on this. He breaks the game down to 3 Qs. 4Q is separated in it's own category as it is purely situational football in his mind. Personally, this is what professional football should focus on. Situations. Red zone offense / defense. Third down/fourth down offense / defense. 4 min drill. 2 min drill. No huddle offense/defense. IMO, first and second downs in between the 20's are all schematic. Where the best teams separate themselves are in the areas outside the general scheme.

I don't see this as a bad thing other than it being a new focus. It should have been the focus the entire time. It is kind of like roster structure. It should be 1-QB, 2a-Protect the QB, 2b-pressure the opposing QB.

And hopefully you haven't blown it already heading into the 4th...

Execution wins. Yes it's critical when your pined down or in the red zone. Usually determines the outcomes, along with turnovers. The mental part is the accountability portion. Definitely need improvements across the board there.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

And how do you know the coaching sucked so badly? Were you at the practices? They could of had the best coaching ever for all we know & the players just failed to execute.

One example: The Seattle game and the two leaping blocks. An average coach would see that and make an adjustment. Amos? Not so much.

I would also imagine a ST coach has a lot of input on ST personnel...When a ST coach has a unit that continually under performs, you have to zero in on the coach.

Fool me once...

 

[Stout]

One example: The Seattle game and the two leaping blocks. An average coach would see that and make an adjustment. Amos? Not so much.

I would also imagine a ST coach has a lot of input on ST personnel...When a ST coach has a unit that continually under performs, you have to zero in on the coach.

Fool me once...

You beat me to it, LIAC. If anything is a glaring neon sign outlining how useless he was as a STs coach last year, that would be it.

Pray tell something schematically that you saw wrong? I'm not defending Amos, but what I saw was players that didnt execute or were poor fits in their assigned duties.

Stop being contrarian just to be contrarian. It's making you look bad.

And how do you know the coaching sucked so badly? Were you at the practices? They could of had the best coaching ever for all we know & the players just failed to execute.

Simple: I have eyes and have watched football. When you watch as schemes do not change in reaction to problems, you have problems with the coach. Nice and easy to figure.

 

[Krangodnzr]

You beat me to it, LIAC. If anything is a glaring neon sign outlining how useless he was as a STs coach last year, that would be it.



Stop being contrarian just to be contrarian. It's making you look bad.



Simple: I have eyes and have watched football. When you watch as schemes do not change in reaction to problems, you have problems with the coach. Nice and easy to figure.

But when individual players just get beaten, that has nothing to do with schemes.

As Arians pointed out FIVE key special teamers went down with injuries last year.

That's one of the most obvious things I saw, plus a longsnapper and kicker that wilted under pressure and a punter who flat out sucked.

 

[Stout]

But when individual players just get beaten, that has nothing to do with schemes.

As Arians pointed out FIVE key special teamers went down with injuries last year.

That's one of the most obvious things I saw, plus a longsnapper and kicker that wilted under pressure and a punter who flat out sucked.

The problems we had all season dealing with the leapers was a coaching problem. The scheme never changed. They never tried anything different. That's coaching, not players. There's no doubt that players also didn't excel on special teams--I'm not denying that point--but to say the coach had nothing to do with it is crazy.

 

[cardncubfan]

One example: The Seattle game and the two leaping blocks. An average coach would see that and make an adjustment. Amos? Not so much.

I would also imagine a ST coach has a lot of input on ST personnel...When a ST coach has a unit that continually under performs, you have to zero in on the coach.

Fool me once...

Personnel was part of the problem last year. ST's took a hit with injured players. KW is not normally back there to block on punts. I agree with your point on the 2 leaping blocks. They should have done something to compensate for it. I would put this more on BA though.

 

[overseascardfan]

I think it's both on the players and coaches. Players are not doing their jobs very well and coaching staff not making necessary adjustments. This should have been addressed during the season not in the offseason.

 

[jbeecham]

They did do something different on Seattle's 2nd leap... the OL to the left of the C got his arms up & grabbed the leapers leg, which took the leaper out of the play. Unfortunately, the guys on the right side of the line let Richard Sherman run in untouched and he almost blocked the kick... which is what I think really caused Catanzaro to hook it left as he saw Sherman running in with his peripheral vision.

Maybe that was coaching, maybe that was the player deciding to impede the leaper.... I don't know... but the leaper was only a factor in Catanzaro's head because he couldn't make a play on the ball on the OT kick.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

But when individual players just get beaten, that has nothing to do with schemes.

As Arians pointed out FIVE key special teamers went down with injuries last year.

That's one of the most obvious things I saw, plus a longsnapper and kicker that wilted under pressure and a punter who flat out sucked.

While that may be true for last year's TOTAL debacle, it doesn't speak to each of Amos' prior years in which all of our special teams ratings have been in the bottom quartile of the league, if memory serves me.

In addition, our special teams haven't just sucked in one or two aspects, but across the board (kickoff coverage kickoff returns, punt coverage, punt returns, fgs). Save PP's rookie year punt returns and DJ's rookie year kickoff return PURE SUCKAGE. When there's consistency of awfulness across years and all aspects of special teams you HAVE to lay the blame at the feet of the special teams coach.

 

[Solar7]

I think this is right.

This is football people. And accountability is bad? Wtf is happening with the world when being held accountable makes people crumble? The players need to nut up and take responsibility for their assignments. You and Mitch seem to be of the mind that players nowadays are weak at heart. I hate to use this analogy, but for all intents and purposes, with putting their bodies on the line, football players need to be warriors. They can't be a bunch of weak-minded wusses that get their feelings hurt and curl up into fetal position.

Maybe I'm too much of an apologist - I definitely think accountability is good, but certain players are motivated by different things, just like anyone in an office environment is.

I talk occasionally about how I was friends with a chunk of NFL players in my younger days, and I'll tell you, coaching changes drastically, and what gets these guys going is going to differ. I knew a guy who really excelled early on because he was motivated by stardom and being great, but once coaching changed and he had someone up his ass every day, work was miserable. He was overthinking himself, and so focused on the past mistakes that he wasn't playing as fast and loose as he used to under a coach who was more prone to point out his successes than failures.

And then there's the guys whose hearts aren't 100% in to football... but hell, they got drafted, they made the team, who is going to turn down millions of dollars because they're not "warriors?" They've got family at home, or this new lifestyle in front of them... but some guys aren't going to go out there and give two licks whether or not they're on an accountability chart, it'll probably just piss them off more.

The positive thing about BASK is that they work to cut these guys out of the team and have players that fit their culture for the most part, it seems, but there's guys in the NFL that are just there for the paycheck sometimes.

 

[Krangodnzr]

While that may be true for last year's TOTAL debacle, it doesn't speak to each of Amos' prior years in which all of our special teams ratings have been in the bottom quartile of the league, if memory serves me.

In addition, our special teams haven't just sucked in one or two aspects, but across the board (kickoff coverage kickoff returns, punt coverage, punt returns, fgs). Save PP's rookie year punt returns and DJ's rookie year kickoff return PURE SUCKAGE. When there's consistency of awfulness across years and all aspects of special teams you HAVE to lay the blame at the feet of the special teams coach.

Arians first two seasons, the Cardinals special teams were ranked around 10th, which is decent. That kind of blows your theory out of the water.

 

[JeffGollin]

Semi OT:

The StL baseball Cardinals wanted to add speed, aggressive base running and better defense to their ballclub this year.

Didn't happen. Errors. Running themselves out of rallies. etc.

A month before midseason, the Cards made coaching changes - 3rd base coach has been reassigned to the minors.

You don't like to see a career derailed, but sometimes you gotta do what you need to do.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Arians first two seasons, the Cardinals special teams were ranked around 10th, which is decent. That kind of blows your theory out of the water.

With all the variables involved in special teams, how do they rank special teams? It's obviously not as easy as offense or defense (where it's yardage, which isn't a great measurement).

 

[Krangodnzr]

With all the variables involved in special teams, how do they rank special teams? It's obviously not as easy as offense or defense (where it's yardage, which isn't a great measurement).

A combination of return yards against, for, and other field goals.

The past two years have been bad, but I mostly blame player evaluation. Last year personnel on special teams was a huge problem. Watching Kerwynn Williams get trucked was gut wrenching, but injuries decimated special teams.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

A combination of return yards against, for, and other field goals.

The past two years have been bad, but I mostly blame player evaluation. Last year personnel on special teams was a huge problem. Watching Kerwynn Williams get trucked was gut wrenching, but injuries decimated special teams.

Aggregate numbers? If so that's a terrible ranking. I recall a year when one of our returners was supposed to be great because he had so many return yards and then everyone realize it was because he had like 25 more kickoff returns than anyone else.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Aggregate numbers? If so that's a terrible ranking. I recall a year when one of our returners was supposed to be great because he had so many return yards and then everyone realize it was because he had like 25 more kickoff returns than anyone else.

MarTay Jenkins.

But obviously your comment doesnt apply over the Arians regime.

For a few years special teams were decent. I would point out that the downturn has a lot to do with 1) Bethel playing injured/playing more defense. Bethel is about as good a special teamer as I've ever seen. 2) Butler. That guy has been terrible.

 

[cardncubfan]

Here's a blast from the past. PP returning a punt for a TD.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/09000d5d823d9b70/D-Cardinals-99-yd-punt-return-TD