Bryant charged with felony sexual assault

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by SirStefan32
Can't argue with that. There isn't enough evidence right now, but since Krangand you are not the DAs, and Freddie and I are not Bryants attorneys, we are allowed to speculate.

We'll see what happens.

And yes, perhaps I was to hars in my judgment. I still stand by everything I said, but I do admit that perhaps I was a bit too harsh.

Stefan

Well, that's something.

But again, don't lump me in to the group that thinks Kobe is guilty. I don't believe Krang believes that as well.

We believe that there is a possibility of guilt, just as there is a possibility of innocence. Your previous posts have given the impression that you think there is NO possibility of guilt, and that is all that we have been arguing against.

 

[SirStefan32]

Originally posted by Renz
Not necessarily. Perhaps the DA was afraid of the backlash in his county if he didn't bring charges. The DA is a political office after all.

I believe that if there was hard physical evidence of forced intercourse then charges would have been brought sooner.

This will almost certainly come down to "he said/she said" and if that is the case, then there is no way he will be convicted.

I couldn't agree more. Great post! If there was any evidence, they would have brought the charges long time ago.

Do you realize what it would do for the DA's career if he wins this case, or at least gets Kobe to make a deal? DAs want publicity as much as anybody else.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by SirStefan32
It's not your job to prosecute him any more than it is my job to defend him.

How am I prosecuting him? He has already proven that he has very poor character (adultery).

 

[Renz]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Puhleaze.

Considering everyone from the media to her own supposed "friends" are against her, how much backlash do you think there would be?? If anything, bringing the charges would provide more backlash, and that has happened.

I don't know. I don't live there. I was merely speculating.

You seem to know more about Eagle Co. than me, so why don't you enlighten us.

And be sure to include the in your post.

 

[elindholm]

And yes, perhaps I was to hars in my judgment. I still stand by everything I said, but I do admit that perhaps I was a bit too harsh.

All you needed to say was, "I think she's a *****," instead of, "She is a *****," and you would have been fine. Well, not fine, but less wrong. The lack of compromise in your language came across as already having "convicted" the victim, rather than just expressing a guess about her.

 

[SirStefan32]

Originally posted by Chaplin

We believe that there is a possibility of guilt, just as there is a possibility of innocence. Your previous posts have given the impression that you think there is NO possibility of guilt, and that is all that we have been arguing against.

I am saying that there is no possibility of proving the case against Bryant beyond reasonable doubt. Kobe's team will go after the 19 year old, discredit her credibility, thus creating plenty of reasonable doubt. That's all.

Stefan

 

[SirStefan32]

Originally posted by elindholm
The lack of compromise in your language came across as already having "convicted" the victim, rather than just expressing a guess about her.

... and I do apologize for that.

Stefan

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by SirStefan32
I am saying that there is no possibility of proving the case against Bryant beyond reasonable doubt. Kobe's team will go after the 19 year old, discredit her credibility, thus creating plenty of reasonable doubt. That's all.

Stefan

But without knowing all the evidence, we don't know if the girl showed physical signs of rape.

If there are physical signs of rape (bruises, torn vaginal tissue, etc.) and corroborated by the "ruckus" reported by guests, this won't be a matter of he-said she-said.

 

[rkellysunsfan]

The thing is here though, we're looking at Kobe Bryant and people are saying that because he committed adultery, that makes it a very likely possibility that he raped a 19 year old girl. That's somewhat absurd.

People make mistakes, and cheating on your wife is certainly one of them. But adultery is a lack of judgement. Depending on the amount of alcohol he had that night, his mood, etc, anybody at the age of 24 could possibly make that mistake. Rape is a completely different story. Only the scum of the Earth could rape a girl, and there has been no indication for as long as Kobe has been in the NBA that he is an indecent human being whatsoever. This is the guy who cried when his NBA team lost in the Western Conference semi-finals last season. The kid who has always played with a smile on his face. The kid who we've never heard of receiving even a speeding ticket going down the LA freeway. This isn't a guy like Jason Kidd, who some could say might still be of questionable character. This is Kobe Bryant, a guy who is succeptible to a lapse of judgement, but most likely isn't a criminal.

And there's one question I have to ask about this poor, naive 19 year old victim. She obviously consented to going into a room privately with Kobe Bryant where he would've had the chance to "rape" her. Assuming that she is a decent person, why would she put herself in that situation? Obviously, she would've known that Kobe Bryant was married and being the decent small-town girl that she is, I'm not sure why she would consent to going into a room with a married man, considering that fact that any reasonably intelligent human being knows what possibly could happen next.

Unless of course, Kobe dragged her into the room, in which case he will very soon be proven guilty when the witnesses argue that they heard her and saw her being dragged into such a room.

 

[Freddie]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
But without knowing all the evidence, we don't know if the girl showed physical signs of rape.

If there are physical signs of rape (bruises, torn vaginal tissue, etc.) and corroborated by the "ruckus" reported by guests, this won't be a matter of he-said she-said.

Looks like I missed quite a bit. I actually had to do some work.

As far as guests, well I will let you read it yourself.

http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/716.htm

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by rkellysunsfan
The thing is here though, we're looking at Kobe Bryant and people are saying that because he committed adultery, that makes it a very likely possibility that he raped a 19 year old girl. That's somewhat absurd.

People make mistakes, and cheating on your wife is certainly one of them. But adultery is a lack of judgement. Depending on the amount of alcohol he had that night, his mood, etc, anybody at the age of 24 could possibly make that mistake. Rape is a completely different story. Only the scum of the Earth could rape a girl, and there has been no indication for as long as Kobe has been in the NBA that he is an indecent human being whatsoever. This is the guy who cried when his NBA team lost in the Western Conference semi-finals last season. The kid who has always played with a smile on his face. The kid who we've never heard of receiving even a speeding ticket going down the LA freeway. This isn't a guy like Jason Kidd, who some could say might still be of questionable character. This is Kobe Bryant, a guy who is succeptible to a lapse of judgement, but most likely isn't a criminal.

And there's one question I have to ask about this poor, naive 19 year old victim. She obviously consented to going into a room privately with Kobe Bryant where he would've had the chance to "rape" her. Assuming that she is a decent person, why would she put herself in that situation? Obviously, she would've known that Kobe Bryant was married and being the decent small-town girl that she is, I'm not sure why she would consent to going into a room with a married man, considering that fact that any reasonably intelligent human being knows what possibly could happen next.

Unless of course, Kobe dragged her into the room, in which case he will very soon be proven guilty when the witnesses argue that they heard her and saw her being dragged into such a room.

First off, Kobe is supposed to be a very moral person. The fact that he admits that he committed adultery, shows that he is not a moral person or at least isn't as moral as we were led to believe. It doesn't exactly make him a rapist, but it does make him immoral.

Secondly, a woman going into a room doesn't make it right for him to do whatever he wants. Maybe she was entralled by his "star" and wanted to make out with him? Does that give him the right to rape her?

Thirdly, a woman is allowed to say no. If she did go into his room, and lets say that she made out with him or something as innocent as that, she is allowed to say no when he wants to move on to intercourse. And we do know that guests reported a "ruckus" which could be a rape.

But of course R Kelly fan would think it was ok to rape her, since R Kelly was convicted of statutory rape and is basically a dirty pedophile.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Freddie
Looks like I missed quite a bit. I actually had to do some work.

As far as guests, well I will let you read it yourself.

http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/716.htm

That's crazy. This story contradicts one of the other stories that you posted....it said there was no "ruckus".

 

[Renz]

Originally posted by rkellysunsfan
And there's one question I have to ask about this poor, naive 19 year old victim. She obviously consented to going into a room privately with Kobe Bryant where he would've had the chance to "rape" her. Assuming that she is a decent person, why would she put herself in that situation? Obviously, she would've known that Kobe Bryant was married and being the decent small-town girl that she is, I'm not sure why she would consent to going into a room with a married man, considering that fact that any reasonably intelligent human being knows what possibly could happen next.

Good point.

 

[Freddie]

Which story? I wonder if the other story was written before this one?

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Freddie
Which story? I wonder if the other story was written before this one?

According to the Denver Post, a guest staying near Byrant's room called the front desk to complain of a late-night ruckus on June 30. Hotel staff members were called in to look into the matter.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/sports/2326266/detail.html

 

[elindholm]

Assuming that she is a decent person, why would she put herself in that situation, ... considering that fact that any reasonably intelligent human being knows what possibly could happen next(?)

Wait, I don't get it. You're saying Bryant must be innocent of rape, because only the scum of the earth can commit crimes like that -- but that the girl shouldn't have gone into Bryant's room, because she should have known that she was vulnerable to being raped?

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Renz
Good point.

It proves nothing.

So I guess you are in the "If you go in the room, you are giving permission to be raped" camp?

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by elindholm
Assuming that she is a decent person, why would she put herself in that situation, ... considering that fact that any reasonably intelligent human being knows what possibly could happen next(?)

Wait, I don't get it. You're saying Bryant must be innocent of rape, because only the scum of the earth can commit crimes like that -- but that the girl shouldn't have gone into Bryant's room, because she should have known that she was vulnerable to being raped?

It's a male way of minimalizing rape, and blaming it on the female.

 

[Freddie]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
According to the Denver Post, a guest staying near Byrant's room called the front desk to complain of a late-night ruckus on June 30. Hotel staff members were called in to look into the matter.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/sports/2326266/detail.html

This story was written on July 11. The NYtimes story was written on July 16. It's a free country, believe whichever you'd like.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Freddie
This story was written on July 11. The NYtimes story was written on July 16. It's a free country, believe whichever you'd like.

So that point is still in contention. Two conflicting reports.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I would feel more confident that this is just a "money grab" if Kobe had admitted that he had sex with her right off the bat.

But he didn't, and it makes you wonder if he is admitting only because the evidence will show that he clearly had sex with her.

 

[rkellysunsfan]

So I guess you are in the "If you go in the room, you are giving permission to be raped" camp?

No, absolutely not. I'm saying that she must've gone into Kobe's room with some kind of intention doing something sexually. Why else would the two, who had been talking together in a public place, go into a private room?

The point I was making is, let's say that she went into Kobe's room to hook up with him, and didn't want to go as far as having sex. She's a 19 year old small-town girl, so that would certainly not be out of the question. The let's say that Kobe wanted to have sex with her, and she said no it didn't feel right, but being drunk and already sexually aroused, Kobe decided that her saying no didn't matter, he was going to get what he wanted, and there was nothing she could say or do to make him stop. That all seems believable.

The problem I have is that it is believable assuming this girl's morals are good because if they were not, then I wouldn't put it past her to have sex with Kobe and then cry rape to get money (it happens all the time). I was saying that if her morals were good, however, she would not have put her into a position of even kissing a married man. Kobe committed the sin of adultery, which many of you use as a reason for it being possible that he could've raped her. You say that if is a bad enough person to commit adultery, why would he stop there; why would he not rape her?

So I'm in return acknoledging that line of reasoning somewhat, and saying this: if this 19-year old girl is a bad enough person to flirt with a married man, and most likely consensually hook up with him, then why would SHE stop there; why would she not have consensual sex with him, and then cry rape in order to receive millions of dollars from a professional athlete? Fact is, there's a good chance that even if Kobe's not convicted of rape, she could still receive enough money in a plea bargain or through a civil court to be set for life.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by rkellysunsfan
No, absolutely not. I'm saying that she must've gone into Kobe's room with some kind of intention doing something sexually. Why else would the two, who had been talking together in a public place, go into a private room?

The point I was making is, let's say that she went into Kobe's room to hook up with him, and didn't want to go as far as having sex. She's a 19 year old small-town girl, so that would certainly not be out of the question. The let's say that Kobe wanted to have sex with her, and she said no it didn't feel right, but being drunk and already sexually aroused, Kobe decided that her saying no didn't matter, he was going to get what he wanted, and there was nothing she could say or do to make him stop. That all seems believable.

The problem I have is that it is believable assuming this girl's morals are good because if they were not, then I wouldn't put it past her to have sex with Kobe and then cry rape to get money (it happens all the time). I was saying that if her morals were good, however, she would not have put her into a position of even kissing a married man. Kobe committed the sin of adultery, which many of you use as a reason for it being possible that he could've raped her. You say that if is a bad enough person to commit adultery, why would he stop there; why would he not rape her?

So I'm in return acknoledging that line of reasoning somewhat, and saying this: if this 19-year old girl is a bad enough person to flirt with a married man, and most likely consensually hook up with him, then why would SHE stop there; why would she not have consensual sex with him, and then cry rape in order to receive millions of dollars from a professional athlete? Fact is, there's a good chance that even if Kobe's not convicted of rape, she could still receive enough money in a plea bargain or through a civil court to be set for life.

One point I want to make: It has already been determined by the DA that he can't plea bargain.

 

[KloD]

Originally posted by rkellysunsfan
No, absolutely not. I'm saying that she must've gone into Kobe's room with some kind of intention doing something sexually. Why else would the two, who had been talking together in a public place, go into a private room?

The point I was making is, let's say that she went into Kobe's room to hook up with him, and didn't want to go as far as having sex. She's a 19 year old small-town girl, so that would certainly not be out of the question. The let's say that Kobe wanted to have sex with her, and she said no it didn't feel right, but being drunk and already sexually aroused, Kobe decided that her saying no didn't matter, he was going to get what he wanted, and there was nothing she could say or do to make him stop. That all seems believable.

The problem I have is that it is believable assuming this girl's morals are good because if they were not, then I wouldn't put it past her to have sex with Kobe and then cry rape to get money (it happens all the time). I was saying that if her morals were good, however, she would not have put her into a position of even kissing a married man. Kobe committed the sin of adultery, which many of you use as a reason for it being possible that he could've raped her. You say that if is a bad enough person to commit adultery, why would he stop there; why would he not rape her?

So I'm in return acknoledging that line of reasoning somewhat, and saying this: if this 19-year old girl is a bad enough person to flirt with a married man, and most likely consensually hook up with him, then why would SHE stop there; why would she not have consensual sex with him, and then cry rape in order to receive millions of dollars from a professional athlete? Fact is, there's a good chance that even if Kobe's not convicted of rape, she could still receive enough money in a plea bargain or through a civil court to be set for life.

You obviously have no clue! Your dribble is sad and pathetic! So a woman going to a mans room could only be for sex? You keep refering to her as star struck and wanting money. You are a truely sad human being. First of all these are criminal charges and paying her off is not even an option. She is not the person who decided to file charges. They don't even need her permission. You keep saying it's about money, but a criminal trial has nothing to do with money going to a victim. You paint Kobe as this person who can get any woman he wants and therefor would never need to take. I feel sorry for the women in your life with your small minded logic. Is it not possible that she just was hanging out with him? Do you really think every woman wants to sleep with famous men? You need to take a deep look inside and stop trying to paint Kobe as a victim. He made the choice to cheat on his wife and put himself in a position where I can feel no sympathy. I do not believe the charges would not have been brought unless they had proof of guilt. Of course he is going to cry and claim he isn't guilty, what other card would you have him play? He should be ashamed of himself using his family to try and get sympathy. You and others with your opinion are so quick to say she must be lying cuz he must have women all over him, but refuse to see that others in his standing tend to think the world and everything in it is theirs and they can take whatever they desire. I feel sorry for you.

 

[Joe Mama]

I know I'm getting into today's arguments a little late, but I feel like I really must say something. I am really disappointed with some of the stupid, ignorant, and close minded posts I've read this afternoon. SirStefan, I can't tell you how much respect I've lost for you in the last hour.

It's one thing to say, "I don't think Kobe Bryant would have done something like this. The girl must be lying." But to come out and say she is just a ***** looking for money when you have no real knowledge of the case.

As far as I know there isn't one person on this message board who has even met Kobe Bryant. Frankly Kobe Bryant's wife should know him as well as anyone, and even she probably only has one side of the story. The District Attorney and investigators probably have a better knowledge of the case than she does.

When it comes down to it none of us have the foggiest idea as to what really happened in that hotel room. We don't know Kobe Bryant, although some of us think we do. We certainly do not know this girl. All we do know is that they were flirting, she went to his room, they had sexual intercourse, the District Attorney felt there was enough evidence at sexual assault to charge him, and he says he is innocent. That's it.

Also, the next time I read something along the lines of "there is no Way Kobe did this because he doesn't need to assault anybody. He could get plenty of women," I'm going to lose it. I remember thinking that way when I was about 15 years old. Then I grew up.

I thought I heard yesterday on ESPN that there was never really a "ruckus" reported by the people in the next room.

I would like someone to please find some documentation of where Kobe Bryant said he did not even know this girl. As far as I know the only thing he had set up until yesterday was that he did not do anything illegal.

Lastly, if Kobe Bryant is acquitted it does not mean that he is innocent of these charges. It just means that the District Attorney was not able to convince the 12 chosen jurors beyond a reasonable doubt that he he is guilty. And if he is found guilty by the jury there is always the possibility that they made a mistake with that decision.

Joe Mama