Cardinal Player Rankings 6/9/08

[Mitch]

These rankings are based on talent, attitude and value (on the whole) to the team...as of today, here they are:

QB:

1. Warner: The numbers (27 TDs and red zone efficiency) speak for themselves.
2. Leinart
3. St. Pierre
4. Morelli

RB:

1. James
2, Hightower
3. Arrington
4. Shipp
5. Baylark
6. Vincent

FB:

1. Castille
2. Smith
3. Johnson

TE:

1. Patrick
2. Pope
3. Tuman (No. 1 blocker)
4. Bienemann
5. Shor

OL:

1. Lutui
2. L. Brown
3. Johnson
4. Gandy
5. Wells
6. E. Brown
7. Sendlein
8. Keith
9. Coleman
10. Meddar
11. Satele
12. Clifford
13. Vallejo
14. Peters

WR

1. Boldin
2. Fitzgerald
3. Doucet
4. Breaston
5. Rector
6. Urban
7. Long
8. Merritt
9. Morey
10. Cornelius

NT

1. Branch
2. Watson
3. Dykes

DE

1. Smith
2. Dockett
3. Campbell
4. Robinson (vet)
5. Iwebema
6. Robinson (rook)
7. Tafoya
8. Banks

SOLB

1. Okeafor
2. Haggans
3. Harrington

SMLB

1. Hayes
2. Beisel
3. Stewart

WMLB

1. Dansby
2. Hightower
3. Stewart

WOLB

1. LaBoy
2. Berry
3. Schobel

LCB

1. Hood
2. Rodgers-Cromartie
3. Bain
4. Minter

SS

1. Wilson
2. Keyes
3. Celestin

FS

1. Rolle
2. Francisco
3. Ware

RCB

1. Green
2. Brown, M.
3. Brown, R.
4. Adams

P

1. Johnson

LS

1. Hodel

K

1. Rackers

 

[anks106]

Really?

Castille Over Smith? Maybe once they put pads on, but until that point.. I would give it to the guy with the pedigree.

Patrick over Pope? Pope showed improvement last year and became a factor in the red zone, Patrick spent most of the year on the PS.

Johnson 3rd? E. Brown Over Sendlein? I don't think I have to elaborate, but I think most would agree at this moment Johnson is our weak link on the line. Sendlein subbed in for Johnson and we actually saw improvement, that alone moves him above Brown to me. I can give it a pass though if you look at Brown as OT. I agree with Lutui over Wells, but clearly Whiz n Co. do not, so theres something else to consider. Also, I put Levi at number 1, he was a different player before the injury and I expect him to be a stud this year.

Morey's Special Team prowess would at least move him ahead of an undrafted free agent and Merritt.

Branch over Watson? I guess, maybe, ish, if you really think the injury will hamper him all year.. sorta.

Smith Over Dockett - No, just no.

 

[Mitch]

Really?

Castille Over Smith? Maybe once they put pads on, but until that point.. I would give it to the guy with the pedigree.

Patrick over Pope? Pope showed improvement last year and became a factor in the red zone, Patrick spent most of the year on the PS.

Johnson 3rd? E. Brown Over Sendlein? I don't think I have to elaborate, but I think most would agree at this moment Johnson is our weak link on the line. Sendlein subbed in for Johnson and we actually saw improvement, that alone moves him above Brown to me. I can give it a pass though if you look at Brown as OT. I agree with Lutui over Wells, but clearly Whiz n Co. do not, so theres something else to consider. Also, I put Levi at number 1, he was a different player before the injury and I expect him to be a stud this year.

Morey's Special Team prowess would at least move him ahead of an undrafted free agent and Merritt.

Branch over Watson? I guess, maybe, ish, if you really think the injury will hamper him all year.. sorta.

Smith Over Dockett - No, just no.

Castille has won over the coaches and will rock this year...he's a dynamo in the red zone...and he's versatile. Smith will be released.

Patrick reminds me of Ben Watson...he's such a natural athlete. Pope is good too. But Patrick is special.

Al Johnson is damn good. He's the best center the Cards have had in ages. He's tough and smart, and gets good leverege.

Elton Brown is versatile...and played very well last year. Sendlein was good as a rookie and can fill in nicely, but Elton Brown has the size and feet to be very effective at either guard or tackle. Credit Russ Grimm for tapping into this kid's talent and making him a bona fide NFL player.

Lutui is the closest to the Pro Bowl as any O-lineman on the squad. L. Brown is a year away from Honolulu. It's all starting to take shape.

Watch the tapes on Morey...he's not the special team player anymore that he was...and if he doesn't revert back to his old form, the talent at WR will make it tough for the Cards to keep him.

Branch has it all over Watson, talent-wise. Once Branch gets over the proverbial hump...watch out. He will be dynamic.

Antonio Smith is better than Dockett...mark this down. And if Calais Campbell catches on quickly, Dockett's days as a starting DE for the Cardinals are numbered.

 

[DaisyCutter]

On Morey--Is he not the special teams player that he was because he hasn't had a chance to block any more punts or field goals? Give me a break.

 

[DaisyCutter]

Antonio Smith is better than Dockett...mark this down. And if Calais Campbell catches on quickly, Dockett's days as a starting DE for the Cardinals are numbered.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Castille has won over the coaches and will rock this year...he's a dynamo in the red zone...and he's versatile. Smith will be released.

Patrick reminds me of Ben Watson...he's such a natural athlete. Pope is good too. But Patrick is special.

Al Johnson is damn good. He's the best center the Cards have had in ages. He's tough and smart, and gets good leverege.

Elton Brown is versatile...and played very well last year. Sendlein was good as a rookie and can fill in nicely, but Elton Brown has the size and feet to be very effective at either guard or tackle. Credit Russ Grimm for tapping into this kid's talent and making him a bona fide NFL player.

Lutui is the closest to the Pro Bowl as any O-lineman on the squad. L. Brown is a year away from Honolulu. It's all starting to take shape.

Watch the tapes on Morey...he's not the special team player anymore that he was...and if he doesn't revert back to his old form, the talent at WR will make it tough for the Cards to keep him.

Branch has it all over Watson, talent-wise. Once Branch gets over the proverbial hump...watch out. He will be dynamic.

Antonio Smith is better than Dockett...mark this down. And if Calais Campbell catches on quickly, Dockett's days as a starting DE for the Cardinals are numbered.

I was on the Ben Patrick bandwagon all last year!!! Pope is way too inconsistent... Patrick just makes plays every time he's asked!

And, while I love Dockett, I also believe that Smith is a better DE... I honestly don't see Dockett as a DE. He is an undersized tackle that requires studs around him to alleviate the double-teams. He is too slow and short for a DE...

 

[Ryanwb]

I fail to see how you can rank players that have never played a game at the NFL level.

Where was Buster Davis on your list last year?

 

[joeshmo]

I fail to see how you can rank players that have never played a game at the NFL level.

Where was Buster Davis on your list last year?

Got to agree. For example, how can Keyes be ahead of Celisten? Keyes hasn't even been to a single OTA because his school is still going. So far all he has done is 3 days of a mini camp.

 

[cardfan]

I fail to see how you can rank players that have never played a game at the NFL level.

Where was Buster Davis on your list last year?

I agree also. We haven't seen some of these guys with pads on (in the NFL) or in a preseason game. The offense is going to get more complicated this year. How can you make these judgments Mitch?

 

[Duckjake]

QB:

1. Warner: The numbers (27 TDs and red zone efficiency) speak for themselves.
2. Leinart
3. St. Pierre
4. Morelli

These numbers also speak:

Warner 6-22-1971

Leinart 5-11-1983

 

[40yearfan]

These numbers also speak:

Warner 6-22-1971

Leinart 5-11-1983

So do these numbers:

6

9

 

[RedRob]

These numbers also speak:

Warner 6-22-1971

Leinart 5-11-1983

Got to agree with DuckJacke here as one of the criteria was value. IF Matt becomes a legit starter in this league having the QB position locked up is about as valuable a thing there is.

 

[Skkorpion]

This numerology stuff is hard to follow. Are these bible verse references, dates on which the world was supposed to end or some other secret code? 40oldfart really lost me.

This crazyness started with Mitch ranking Lutui as the #1 olineman and degenerated from there.

Wait till Mulli and jts find this thread.

 

[WildBB]

Branch has it all over Watson, talent-wise. Once Branch gets over the proverbial hump...watch out. He will be dynamic.

I'm hoping so. So far it's Watson in a landslide though. Branch has got to dedicate to working out.

Quote:
Antonio Smith is better than Dockett...mark this down. And if Calais Campbell catches on quickly, Dockett's days as a starting DE for the Cardinals are numbered.[/QUOTE]

This IS Smith''s last year in Red. Unless they feel like you, he's better and Dockett is becoming a distraction. Campbell and Iwebema will push for a spot soon and start next year.

 

[WildBB]

This numerology stuff is hard to follow. Are these bible verse references, dates on which the world was supposed to end or some other secret code? 40oldfart really lost me.

This crazyness started with Mitch ranking Lutui as the #1 olineman and degenerated from there.

Wait till Mulli and jts find this thread.

I think Brown will quickly take over as leader of this unit, even though he's the youngest. His play will dictate this.

 

[SuperSpck]

Always fun to pass the time in the offseason Mitch. I'm approaching the discussion from more of a Depth Chart perspective than a raw talent type, which may be the opposite of what you were intending.
I do have a couple of things I wonder about:

QB:
1. Warner: The numbers (27 TDs and red zone efficiency) speak for themselves.
2. Leinart

Warner had the wide-open O going, but he's not going to commit any less turnovers at this point in his career. He's what we can safely call a "known quantity".

I think it's odd that Leinart showed his best stuff under the Denny-era non coaching than under his first year with Whiz. That said, if Matt's got his head on straight we know the playbook Whis wants to run takes a lot of pressure off a young QB.
Warner was lights out, but ultimately we've got to know what the Cards 3 year QB is all about. Now's the time to do that.

RB:
1. James
2, Hightower
3. Arrington
4. Shipp

J.J. still can't tote the rock, but he's been highly effective when recieving out of the backfield (which isn't something the team is prone to) and seems to have some good speed out in the open field (not breakaway, just good). I think for this reason he'd get the nod.

FB:

1. Castille
2. Smith

I know you've been singing his praises on high for ages, but I'm not comfortable with releasing Smith until Castille's put a couple of flawless blocking games together.

OL:
1. Lutui
2. L. Brown
3. Johnson
4. Gandy
5. Wells
6. E. Brown
7. Sendlein
8. Keith
9. Coleman
10. Meddar
11. Satele
12. Clifford
13. Vallejo
14. Peters

Love Duece's Heart, but he's not a complete product and I don't think he's the best the Cardinals have (at this moment, if his junior year is money, by the end of it he may be the best), I also think you've underrated Gandy. He did a pretty good job (the West had a bunch of nobody's last year, but remember how he helped keep guys like Abraham in check?).

Also, as much as I'd have to admit it, Wells has to go above Brown until Levi shows us he can avoid the dreaded sophomore slump.

DE
1. Smith
2. Dockett
3. Campbell
4. Robinson (vet)
5. Iwebema
6. Robinson (rook)

Speaking of underrated, how about Smith? He wasn't appreciated enough, but twitch for twitch no one is as fast off the line as Dockett is. When either Smith or Dockett was out of the line up last year the pass rush was hindered (not that Dockett ever really had the chance to get out, DE in 3-4 and DT in 4-3, what a load). I think at the end of the year D was just gassed. I do think if the rookies bring half of what they should the depth problem isn't as big a problem as it was last year.

Nice list, Mitch.
As always ya get people talking. It's been a quiet month too.

 

[black]

This numerology stuff is hard to follow. Are these bible verse references, dates on which the world was supposed to end or some other secret code? 40oldfart really lost me.

This crazyness started with Mitch ranking Lutui as the #1 olineman and degenerated from there.

Wait till Mulli and jts find this thread.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Based on the "as of today" part of this post my arguements are:

FB:
1. Smith
2. Castille
3. Johnson

TE:
1. Tuman (No. 1 blocker)
2. Pope
3. Patrick
4. Bienemann
5. Shor

OL:
1. Gandy
2. Lutui
3. Wells
4. Johnson
5. L.Brown
6. E. Brown
7. Sendlein
8. Vallejo
9. Keith
10. Coleman
11. Satele
12. Clifford
13. Meddar
14. Peters

NT
1. Watson
2. Branch
3. Dykes

DE
1. Dockett
2. Smith
3. Campbell
4. Robinson (vet)
5. Iwebema
6. Robinson (rook)
7. Tafoya
8. Banks

WOLB
1. Berry
2. LaBoy
3. Schobel

K
1. Anyone
2. Rackers[/QUOTE]

 

[cardsfanmd]

Smith has blocked for a 1,000yd rusher for the last five years. Castille has _.

OL
1. Gandy- for the life of me I dont understand why this guy hasn't gotten more credit. He is the best LT the cards have had in my lifetime. Prior to his injury last year he was playing at a PB level.
2. L. Brown- he may not be a star yet, but he does play the second hardest position on the line and that makes him our second best lineman IMO
3. Johnson- see above, 3rd hardest position= 3rd best lineman
4. Wells
5. Lutui- beginning to wonder if he has the physical tools to be much more than average in Grimm's scheme
6. E. Brown/Seinlein
7.


Left Bench
1. Rackers

 

[DaisyCutter]

Smith has blocked for a 1,000yd rusher for the last five years. Castille has _.

OL
1. Gandy- for the life of me I dont understand why this guy hasn't gotten more credit. He is the best LT the cards have had in my lifetime. Prior to his injury last year he was playing at a PB level.

What injury? Gandy played and started in 16 games last season. He was solid, but he wasn't anywhere near a Pro Bowl player (and you should know, having been treated to Jon Ogden for so long in Baltimore) at any point.

As for the second part, he wasn't as good as the guy who was a two-time Pro Bowl alternate at the position. The guy who's now playing in Dallas.

Despite that, it's probably true that Gandy was our best lineman, but I think that speaks more for the weakness of the entire group (and the level to which the unit was ravaged by injuries). Deuce Lutui has taken Marcel Shipp's mantle as the most overrated player on the Arizona Cardinals.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I was on the Ben Patrick bandwagon all last year!!! Pope is way too inconsistent... Patrick just makes plays every time he's asked!

And, while I love Dockett, I also believe that Smith is a better DE... I honestly don't see Dockett as a DE. He is an undersized tackle that requires studs around him to alleviate the double-teams. He is too slow and short for a DE...

Re: Dockett... how do you explain that almost all of his early season sacks came from the DE position in the 3-4?

 

[black]

Based on the "as of today" part of this post my arguements are:

FB:
1. Smith
2. Castille
3. Johnson

TE:
1. Angie
2. Tuman (No. 1 blocker)
3. Pope
4. Patrick
5. Bienemann


OL:
1. Gandy
2. Lutui
3. Wells
4. Johnson
5. L.Brown
6. E. Brown
7. Sendlein
8. Vallejo
9. Keith
10. Coleman
11. Satele
12. Clifford
13. Meddar
14. Peters

NT
1. Watson
2. Branch
3. Dykes

DE
1. Dockett
2. Smith
3. Campbell
4. Robinson (vet)
5. Iwebema
6. Robinson (rook)
7. Tafoya
8. Banks

WOLB
1. Berry
2. LaBoy
3. Schobel

K
1. Anyone
2. Rackers

[/quote]

 

[cardsfanmd]

What injury? Gandy played and started in 16 games last season. He was solid, but he wasn't anywhere near a Pro Bowl player (and you should know, having been treated to Jon Ogden for so long in Baltimore) at any point.

As for the second part, he wasn't as good as the guy who was a two-time Pro Bowl alternate at the position. The guy who's now playing in Dallas.

Despite that, it's probably true that Gandy was our best lineman, but I think that speaks more for the weakness of the entire group (and the level to which the unit was ravaged by injuries). Deuce Lutui has taken Marcel Shipp's mantle as the most overrated player on the Arizona Cardinals.

Gandy hurt his calf/knee in the Washington game IIRC, but came back and played the following week.

You know your stuff Daisy, but I will never agree that Davis ever played a season at LT better than what Gandy gave us last year, NEVER. Davis dominated plays and series, but took too many other plays and games off. I think he caught a bad deal being stuck here in the end of the ugly Cardinals days, but he is a cowpuke now so the horse whisperer gets no love here.

In the end, do you really think Big was worth the 14 million more he got than Gandy last year??

 

[Duckjake]

In the end, do you really think Big was worth the 14 million more he got than Gandy last year??

If we could have watched the Cards go 13-3 and win the Division I'd have gladly paid Davis the extra $14million.

13-3 and a Division title! I think that some ASFN regulars wouldn't survive the season. especially those that park in lot f

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Gandy hurt his calf/knee in the Washington game IIRC, but came back and played the following week.

You know your stuff Daisy, but I will never agree that Davis ever played a season at LT better than what Gandy gave us last year, NEVER. Davis dominated plays and series, but took too many other plays and games off. I think he caught a bad deal being stuck here in the end of the ugly Cardinals days, but he is a cowpuke now so the horse whisperer gets no love here.

In the end, do you really think Big was worth the 14 million more he got than Gandy last year??

Everything he says.

Davis sucked, and still sucks. He is hidden in the Cowboys OL.

I remember laughing at him two times last year.

#1 - The personal foul he got against the Giants in the playoffs last year.
#2 - False start in the pro bowl.

Davis sucked, and is no where near worth the money he was given.