Cards asked for relief from ASU in 98

40yearfan

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Cardinals asked for '98 relief from ASU
Team wanted rent reduced, records say

Craig Harris
The Arizona Republic
May. 6, 2003 12:00 AM


The Cardinals sought financial concessions from Arizona State University as early as 1998, saying the team needed more revenue to be competitive in the NFL.

Michael Bidwill, Cardinals vice president and general counsel, wrote former ASU Athletic Director Kevin White asking for a reduction in rent, all of the concession and parking revenue during NFL games and naming rights to Sun Devil Stadium.

The team, which is seeking up to $21 million in damages from ASU in a more recent dispute over stadium signage, has had a contentious relationship with the university since it began playing in ASU's stadium in 1988.

The three-page letter dated March 11, 1998, obtained in a public records request from ASU, also asked for increased advertising and sponsorship rights, revenue from ASU's ads shown at Cardinals games and the ability to sell beer beyond halftime.

"Some other NFL teams had received concessions like that," Bidwill said Monday. "These were things we asked for in order to help improve our competitiveness. . . . This was a wish list, and we didn't expect to get all of it."

Bidwill said the Cardinals were seeking additional revenue to help sign free agents.

He said he wrote his 1998 letter at White's request after the two had discussed a joint marketing agreement. White, now athletic director at Notre Dame, declined to comment.

ASU turned down every request except to give the Cardinals the ability to sell wine and beer into the third quarter, said Paul Ward, ASU's attorney.

On Monday, Bidwill questioned ASU's claims that the university has netted slightly more than $6.1 million since the team moved to the Valley in 1988.

Bidwill said the team has paid ASU more than $32 million in rent, parking and concession revenue, and that the Cardinals have made contributions for a parking garage and suites.

ASU's audited records confirm the $32 million gross figure. The records also show, however, that operational costs of hosting NFL games netted ASU just one-fifth of that. The school said it lost $35,283, after expenses, to host 10 NFL games in 2002.

Bidwill's letter to White came after the Cardinals went 4-12 in 1997. The team made nearly $4.4 million in profits that year, according to financial records that were disclosed in a 2001 lawsuit between the NFL and the Oakland Raiders.

Although the Cardinals typically have made money since moving here in 1988 from St. Louis, the team has been among the bottom third in profitability in the NFL, according to records from the NFL-Raiders lawsuit.

The Cardinals have had just one winning season (1998) since moving to Arizona.

Last week, The Arizona Republic reported that the Cardinals were seeking up to $21 million in damages from ASU in a dispute involving revenue from sponsorship signs. Bidwill said the Cardinals would use any money it receives to improve the team.

An arbitrator last year sided with the Cardinals, who contended that ASU breached a 1994 contract that said both sides must agree to changes regarding sponsor signs. A monetary decision could occur in the summer or fall.

Gene Smith, current ASU athletic director, has said that if the Cardinals prevail, he will have to lay off staff and possibly cut sports programs.

The school installed 31 new sponsorship signs in 1999 in order to pay for $8 million in renovations at Sun Devil Stadium and Wells Fargo Arena. A dozen have been added since.

The Cardinals have said they were prohibited from selling certain sponsorships that conflicted with ASU's sponsors, and that ASU benefited at the Cardinals' expense by having ASU's signs on display during NFL games, even though no money was given to the Cardinals.<p><font color=blue>So in other words, this arbitration case that ASU people have said was only filed after Prop 302 passed, has actually been in the negotiating stage since this letter was written in 1998. Kinda blows that theory out of the water, doesn't it. Wonder what else is going to come out?</font
 
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Card Trader

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What's your point.......it's like if I asked my boss for a raise, he doesn't give me one, then later on he sexually harasses me and I sue him. I don't think me asking for a raise some 4 or 5 years earlier has anything to do with the sexual harassment.

Dumb analogy maybe but bringing up the Cards asking for relief a year BEFORE ASU broke it's agreement is, well, pointless.
 
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40yearfan

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Another thought on this matter. Because of the slim profit margains the Cards are making ($4.4 million in 1997), how can they ever keep any of their good players. If they had to sign a Plummer or Boston to an extended contract with a huge signing bonus, they wouldn't have the cash to do it. It's a real dichotomy. You can't afford to keep your good players, but if you don't, you'll have losing seasons and not get additional income. What a viscous cycle.
 
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40yearfan

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Originally posted by Card Trader
What's your point.......it's like if I asked my boss for a raise, he doesn't give me one, then later on he sexually harasses me and I sue him. I don't think me asking for a raise some 4 or 5 years earlier has anything to do with the sexual harassment.

Dumb analogy maybe but bringing up the Cards asking for relief a year BEFORE ASU broke it's agreement is, well, pointless.
<p>Card Trader----the point is that ASU has stated the Cards waited until after they won Prop 302 to say anything or complain about getting a greater share of the profits. This letter proves the Cards have been negotiating with ASU since 1998, well before Prop 302 was even started.
 

AZBALLER

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Originally posted by 40yearfan
Another thought on this matter. Because of the slim profit margains the Cards are making ($4.4 million in 1997), how can they ever keep any of their good players. If they had to sign a Plummer or Boston to an extended contract with a huge signing bonus, they wouldn't have the cash to do it. It's a real dichotomy. You can't afford to keep your good players, but if you don't, you'll have losing seasons and not get additional income. What a viscous cycle.

HUH???

The Cards are making plenty of $$ after they meet all of their expenses. How is making 4.4 million dollars a small profit margin? If there was no salary cap, then the Cards would have an argument in that department, yet they continually come as close as possible to using their entire cap space each season, and still bring a profit home...ASU has actually lost money many seasons that the Cards have played at SDS...With no Salary Cap, your statement might make sense, but since there is one, and EVERYONE knows that the Cards have MADE $$$ every season that they've been in the valley, so I see no point to your argument.
 

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Good grief how many times does this need to be explained.

It's all about CASH FLOW not CASH, that plus all the costs of running the business that are not cap controled such as

Coaches
Equipment
Facilites
Advertising & PR (such as it is)

When you sign a player and give them a signing bonus you are taking out a loan. You have to pay them NOW and need the cash flow to do it. It helps you little if you can amortize that "loan" over several years of cap hits.

It's cash flow folks not cash, the Cards are strapped for cash flow, maybe cash as well but in business cash flow is king. Try asking you bank to wait 6 months for loan payments and see if you have a car in a couple of months. Same deal here.
 

Sandan

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Sorry for the rant, it's just I've explained this so many times I get frustrated.
 

AZBALLER

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I understand what cash flow is, but can you explain to me what the Bidwills have been doing with their positive cash flow for the last 50 years???

You make it sound like they've actually spent all of their hard earned money on signing bonuses...Furthermore, if they had(which they obviously haven't), then they could easily get a loan from a bank to pay a signing bonus. Afterall, if an unstable MLB team, which is guarenteed to lose money, can get a loan, then an NFL team which is GUARENTEED to make money EVERY year, could secure a loan in a second...

I understand your argument, but it just doesn't tell the entire story.
 

AZBALLER

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Originally posted by nidan
It's all about CASH FLOW not CASH, that plus all the costs of running the business that are not cap controled such as

Coaches
Equipment
Facilites
Advertising & PR (such as it is)

Well it's well documented that the Cards spend as little as possible on Coaches, Equipment (only one pair of practice shorts for each player), facilities(taxpayers payed for one of the best training facilities in the NFL for the Cards, and the Cards pay next to nothing for rent at SDS), and the Cards do next to nothing in advertising anyways.

So where does all of that shared NFL revenue that the Cards take home each year go?
 

Sandan

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Where do you get these "facts" from ?

Such as "only one pair of practice shorts for each player" or

"Cards pay next to nothing for rent at SDS" how do you figure that. By Republic articles (which are hardly pro Cardinals) they have spent over $31M in rent not including improvments to the facilities. Not exactly chump change.

You sound like a lot of posters at the Republic Cards Corner, making a bunch of unsubstaniated, emotionly charged comments passed off as facts. Or is $31M+ next to nothing?

As to profit margins, what was the total revenue ? If memory severs me correctly I've seen figures in the $150M range. If true that puts the profit margin at around 3%, thats slim by most business standards.
 

AZBALLER

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Originally posted by nidan
Where do you get these "facts" from ?

Just common knowledge around the NFL and around the world in general. Why do you think that most of our own FA's shun us and that most opposing teams FA's shun us???

Is it that NFL palyers hate golf courses? Is it that professional athletes hate living in a state that is predominantly Republican, which leads to politicions siding with less taxes??? It couldn't be the fact that people really miss having to scrape ice off of their windshields every morning for a few months could it?...I know that you've heard of common sense, haven't you?

I mean, if the Phoenix Metropolitan area was such a horrible place to play in, then why have the Suns, Diamondbacks, ASU, Rattlers, Phoenix Open, etc, etc, etc, done soooo well???

All of those entities were intelligent enough to thank the Phx metropolitan area/voters for helping them out...What did the Cards do?
 

Cardinals.Ken

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Originally posted by WizardOfAz
Excellent - what other "common knowledge" from around the world in general can you share with us - that's great!

Cheesebeef is a jackass!

That's common knowledge from the around the world in general.

But what do I know, all my posts are considered poop in most circles...
 

Dan H

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Well it's well documented that the Cards spend as little as possible on Coaches, Equipment (only one pair of practice shorts for each player), facilities(taxpayers payed for one of the best training facilities in the NFL for the Cards, and the Cards pay next to nothing for rent at SDS), and the Cards do next to nothing in advertising anyways.

BALONEY!!! You, sir, are full of it! Jim O. mentioned how just the other day the team loads up their rookies with all kinds of stuff, not mention a lot of other perqs.
 
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