Cards can pick QB in 3rd round

[Southpaw]

If anyone is familiar with Matt Schaub, QB from U of Virginia, whaddy ya think about Cards picking him 3rd round and go for other positions in 1st and 2nd round. Big guy, strong accurate arm, huge QB rating.

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

Sorry Wally

We can pick a QB in the 7th round.......but the chances are he'll suck.

Big Ben and Eli are the only 2 franchise for sure QB's this year........these 2 types of individuals only come around about once every five years.....can you wait that long....should you wait that long?

 

[red desert]

Re: Sorry Wally

Originally posted by BuckeyeCardinal
We can pick a QB in the 7th round.......but the chances are he'll suck.

Big Ben and Eli are the only 2 franchise for sure QB's this year........these 2 types of individuals only come around about once every five years.....can you wait that long....should you wait that long?

I'm not saying I disagree with you, but doesn't it seem like they say tha about one or two quarterbacks every year about this time?

 

[100%CardsFan]

Originally posted by wallyburger
If anyone is familiar with Matt Schaub, QB from U of Virginia, whaddy ya think about Cards picking him 3rd round and go for other positions in 1st and 2nd round. Big guy, strong accurate arm, huge QB rating.

We did that. His name is Josh McCown.

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

Re: Re: Sorry Wally

Originally posted by red desert
I'm not saying I disagree with you, but doesn't it seem like they say tha about one or two quarterbacks every year about this time?

Hey....convince me I'm wrong......find me a bunch of "experts" or even some people on this board who are actually as smart as the "experts" who say that Eli and/or Big Ben are not franchise QB's and I'll agree with you.

I'm waiting.

 

[Northern Card]

FYI

Notes: Ray might be latest CFL QB immigrant into NFL - by Pete Prisco

At 6-feet-3, 210 pounds, (Ricky) Ray impressed the scouts at his workout, making all the throws and showing better mobility than most thought. "I did like the way he threw the ball," said one NFC personnel director. "He got it out pretty quick, too." At 24, Ray was cut by the 49ers as an undrafted free agent out of Sacramento State in 2001. He spent part of that year playing in the Arena2 league and then headed north to Canada to play for the Edmonton Eskimos in 2002. He started 10 games as a rookie in 2002 and then led the Eskimos to the Grey Cup in 2003. Ray completed 346 of 515 passes for 4,600 yards, 35 touchdowns and 13 interceptions. His completion percentage was 67.6 and he had a passer rating of 108.1. Ray is entering the option year of his CFL contract, but under an agreement with the NFL, those players are free to sign NFL contracts from Dec. 29 to Feb. 28. If he doesn't, the option in Canada is exercised. "He doesn't just want to come down just for the sake of coming down," said Ray's agent, Ken Staninger. "If he can get a shot at a No. 2 job with an eye on the No. 1 job, then it would be something he would do. But I don't think he feels coming down for a No. 3 job is the right thing for his career." Ray would be a minimum-salary player, so he would be cap friendly for any team signing him, even with a decent bonus. That could be attractive, but not nearly as attractive as a productive passer who has shown to be accurate. Jeff Garcia, Warren Moon, Dieter Brock and Doug Flutie all made the move from the CFL. Others have tried and failed in the NFL, such as Dave Dickenson. Ray, according to the scouts, has a real chance to play in the NFL. Among the teams that scouted Ray on Tuesday were the Broncos, Falcons, Chiefs, Cowboys, Bills, Packers, Texans and Jets. Staninger said four more teams wanted to see him work out but could not attend, which is why Ray might work out at the East-West College All Star game in early January since all teams have scouts and personnel people at that game. "Ricky feels as if this is the time to take the chance," said Staninger. "But it has to be the right situation." In a quarterback-starved league, Ray's time may indeed be now.

 

[red desert]

Re: Re: Re: Sorry Wally

Originally posted by BuckeyeCardinal
Hey....convince me I'm wrong......find me a bunch of "experts" or even some people on this board who are actually as smart as the "experts" who say that Eli and/or Big Ben are not franchise QB's and I'll agree with you.

I'm waiting.

Relax. No one was saying you are wrong, at least not me. Reread my post.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Re: Sorry Wally

Originally posted by BuckeyeCardinal
We can pick a QB in the 7th round.......but the chances are he'll suck.

Big Ben and Eli are the only 2 franchise for sure QB's this year........these 2 types of individuals only come around about once every five years.....can you wait that long....should you wait that long?

Wow. That's amazing reasoning.

Ryan Leaf was a "franchise QB". So was Andre Ware. David Klingler was too. And let's not forget about Heath Shuler. Or Akili Smith. And what about Cade McNown? Oh yeah, what was that dude's name, Trent Dilfer? Wasn't there a guy named after a piece of furniture, Tim Couch?

These two come around every year. Last year it was Carson Palmer and Byron Leftwich. The year before it was David Carr and Joey Harrington. What about McNabb and Culpepper? Michael Vick anyone? I would say Vick is better than either of the QBs that are at the top of the draft this year...

The point is that supposed "franchise" QBs come out every year. If we don't draft Ben or Eli, we will have a shot at another franchise QB down the road. Granted, we probably won't have a good shot at the top pick again, but Qbs come from everywhere now.

I might be tempted to take the best available athlete at the top of the first, and then draft Philip Rivers at the top of the second pending workouts...

 

[100%CardsFan]

"I might be tempted to take the best available athlete at the top of the first"

Boldin was the best overall athlete in last years draft and now look. I agree

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by 100%CardsFan
"I might be tempted to take the best available athlete at the top of the first"

Boldin was the best overall athlete in last years draft and now look. I agree

I would disagree with that. Best athlete and best player aren't necessarily the same thing. When Boldin only ran a 4.7 40 at the scout combine, he showed that he was the "best athlete".

But he is the best player right now, due to the intangibles like heart, football knowledge, etc.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Re: Re: Re: Sorry Wally

Originally posted by BuckeyeCardinal
Hey....convince me I'm wrong......find me a bunch of "experts" or even some people on this board who are actually as smart as the "experts" who say that Eli and/or Big Ben are not franchise QB's and I'll agree with you.

I'm waiting.

Those same "experts" called Ryan Leaf a franchise QB. Franchise QB is a very subjective term, not an objective one. Just because a guy is dubbed "franchise" it doesn't mean he will be one.

For every real "franchise" Qb, there are at least 4-5 that didn't become franchise QBs.

 

[Stout]

Krang...first off, I understand why you like Rivers...but it was the same reason I really liked Drew Brees. He was projected around the same area, had all the intangibles in college, and played lights-out in college. His knock? Not great physical tools. Correct me if I'm wrong (and I may be-I haven't researched the kid), but isn't that the same knock on Rivers?

Two, who's to say he'll be around in the 2nd round for us? Lots of teams are hungry for QBs this year. If we pick #1 in the 1st, we'll be #1 or #2 in the 2nd round. What if he's projected as a late 1st/early 2nd? Do we bypass a QB altogether in the first few rounds (big mistake, IMO, but I think we should draft one with our first pick)? Do we pray Rivers falls to us, if we like him? Do we trade up to get him (huge, HUGE mistake, IMO)?

You keep talking as if it is set in stone that we could take him in the 2nd. Far from it, at this point. You also seem just as sold on Rivers as others are on Ben and Eli, yet you chide them for their opinions. I'm not trying to bag on you or anything, but step back for a second and examine what you keep repeating about Rivers.

 

[imaCafan]

Re: Re: Sorry Wally

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Wow. That's amazing reasoning.

Ryan Leaf was a "franchise QB". So was Andre Ware. David Klingler was too. And let's not forget about Heath Shuler. Or Akili Smith. And what about Cade McNown? Oh yeah, what was that dude's name, Trent Dilfer? Wasn't there a guy named after a piece of furniture, Tim Couch?

These two come around every year. Last year it was Carson Palmer and Byron Leftwich. The year before it was David Carr and Joey Harrington. What about McNabb and Culpepper? Michael Vick anyone? I would say Vick is better than either of the QBs that are at the top of the draft this year...

The point is that supposed "franchise" QBs come out every year. If we don't draft Ben or Eli, we will have a shot at another franchise QB down the road. Granted, we probably won't have a good shot at the top pick again, but Qbs come from everywhere now.

I might be tempted to take the best available athlete at the top of the first, and then draft Philip Rivers at the top of the second pending workouts...

So if they come out every year, what year would you chose to take a "Franchise" QB? 2004? 2005? 2010? Seems like now, considering how our pick and the draft prospects stack up, would be the perfect time to get our next Lomax.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Stout
Krang...first off, I understand why you like Rivers...but it was the same reason I really liked Drew Brees. He was projected around the same area, had all the intangibles in college, and played lights-out in college. His knock? Not great physical tools. Correct me if I'm wrong (and I may be-I haven't researched the kid), but isn't that the same knock on Rivers?

Two, who's to say he'll be around in the 2nd round for us? Lots of teams are hungry for QBs this year. If we pick #1 in the 1st, we'll be #1 or #2 in the 2nd round. What if he's projected as a late 1st/early 2nd? Do we bypass a QB altogether in the first few rounds (big mistake, IMO, but I think we should draft one with our first pick)? Do we pray Rivers falls to us, if we like him? Do we trade up to get him (huge, HUGE mistake, IMO)?

You keep talking as if it is set in stone that we could take him in the 2nd. Far from it, at this point. You also seem just as sold on Rivers as others are on Ben and Eli, yet you chide them for their opinions. I'm not trying to bag on you or anything, but step back for a second and examine what you keep repeating about Rivers.

That's why I said "pending workouts". Draft plans CAN'T be set in stone, a team must be very flexible.

The knock on Rivers: some question his arm strength (whether he has an elite arm) and most scouts don't like his 3/4s side arm like delivery. He also moves pretty slow.

But he has great size (6'5", 240). Has put up huge numbers against great teams, and has been a winner since his very first start in college. He has all the intangibles: cool under pressure, mature, smart, and a team leader.

And as I said, pending workouts, he might slip a little, or he might jump into the first round. I would wager that he won't workout well; he isn't that type of player. If he has a bad workout (runs a bad 40 time) he should be available at the top of the second round.

I'm just pointing out, that "franchise" QBs come out every year, I'm not knocking anyone's opinion on the matter. Some on this board have this extreme myopia (for lack of a better word), that they can't see that Eli or Ben could be 7 million dollar per year, sit on the bench busts. Neither are guaranteed stars, and I'm not saying that Rivers will be either, only that he would represent less of a risk financially, and that he could be just as effective at the next level.

Harry said that he wouldn't bet against Rivers; Rivers is that type of player that exudes confidence, yet is humble and can step in and rally his teammates. He could be in the same type of circumstances as Brees, but Rivers actually has more of what you want in a Qb.

 

[ajcardfan]

IMO, we should pick a QB first or not pick one at all. We've already got young projects in house with McCown and Parsons, why add another one? Go for the blue chipper QB or build the D.

That said, I like both QB's better than any of the defensive prospects available where we'll be picking. The only other position that we should consider in the top 5 is a WR.

 

[Stout]

Krang, to me, it just seems as if sooooo many teams take shots at those top-notched QBs, yet we never, ever do.

Yes, the chances are against them. I'd say probably a significantly higher percentage 'bust', per say, than become franchise QBs. But the reward...oh, the reward!

Philly was clamoring for another player (actually, Ricky) and booed McNabb. Now he's their hero. Atlanta traded up for Vick, and look what he is to them. Peyton, Culpepper, McNair, Bledsoe, Pennington...the chance to get one of these guys, to me, is worth running the risk of instead getting one of those classic busts that have been mentioned so often.

Because, what happens when you play it safe? We played it safe last year and traded down, and if we hadn't, I seriously doubt we'd be having this QB discussion (Oh Lefty, where art thou?). Granted, Pace and Johnson may eventually pan out, but they'd better both be all-pros or it wouldn't even have been worth it, passing on a promising young QB like Lefty.

I WANT A FRANCHISE QB, DAMNIT! Lol Knowing our luck, he'll turn into a bust, but IMO, we HAVE to give it a shot, with the spot we'll likely have, and the QB talent available.

One question, and please, don't take this post as insulting or anything, because it's not: Would you ever advocate taking a high-pick QB? Or is this just a case of Rivers is your boy and so you only want him? Just curious.

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

QB's

I base my strong statements on 2 things that I consider fact....yet they are just my opinions:

(1) Franchise QB's do not come out every year and many are busts....I just put my money on Eli and Big Ben not being busts....just like I said last year that Carson Palmer and Letwich would be successfull.....CP has yet to have a shot.

(2) Look at the QB's that are currently freshman/sophomore and juniors......none jump out like Eli and Big Ben......but again that's just MHO....I've been wrong before....but I was correct last year....I've been correct on Pennington and Leftwich and Big Ben is as good or better....Manning is.......well....Manning.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Re: QB's

Originally posted by BuckeyeCardinal
I base my strong statements on 2 things that I consider fact....yet they are just my opinions:

(1) Franchise QB's do not come out every year and many are busts....I just put my money on Eli and Big Ben not being busts....just like I said last year that Carson Palmer and Letwich would be successfull.....CP has yet to have a shot.

But as I showed you, they do come out every year. This year isn't odd whatsoever, it is like any other year, except for the fact that top defensive players aren't quite as good. If there was a Julius Peppers, a Terrance Newman, etc. I would be definitely want us to draft the best defensive player, but this years crop is lackluster.

Originally posted by BuckeyeCardinal
(2) Look at the QB's that are currently freshman/sophomore and juniors......none jump out like Eli and Big Ben......but again that's just MHO....I've been wrong before....but I was correct last year....I've been correct on Pennington and Leftwich and Big Ben is as good or better....Manning is.......well....Manning.

David Carr jumped from almost out of nowhere to be the top pick in the NFL draft. That happens all the time. I like Pennington too, as well as Leftwich. And I was a big fan of McNabb at Syracuse, and I couldn't believe the idiocy of Eagles fans booing his selection.

My point is that we don't know how highly rated current college Qbs will be once they declare, or once it gets close to them coming out. If Vincent Young keeps improving, he will be a significantly better prospect than Ben, Manning, or any QB coming out this year.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Stout
Krang, to me, it just seems as if sooooo many teams take shots at those top-notched QBs, yet we never, ever do.

Yes, the chances are against them. I'd say probably a significantly higher percentage 'bust', per say, than become franchise QBs. But the reward...oh, the reward!

Philly was clamoring for another player (actually, Ricky) and booed McNabb. Now he's their hero. Atlanta traded up for Vick, and look what he is to them. Peyton, Culpepper, McNair, Bledsoe, Pennington...the chance to get one of these guys, to me, is worth running the risk of instead getting one of those classic busts that have been mentioned so often.

Because, what happens when you play it safe? We played it safe last year and traded down, and if we hadn't, I seriously doubt we'd be having this QB discussion (Oh Lefty, where art thou?). Granted, Pace and Johnson may eventually pan out, but they'd better both be all-pros or it wouldn't even have been worth it, passing on a promising young QB like Lefty.

I WANT A FRANCHISE QB, DAMNIT! Lol Knowing our luck, he'll turn into a bust, but IMO, we HAVE to give it a shot, with the spot we'll likely have, and the QB talent available.

One question, and please, don't take this post as insulting or anything, because it's not: Would you ever advocate taking a high-pick QB? Or is this just a case of Rivers is your boy and so you only want him? Just curious.

I do understand the want for a franchise Qb. Lord knows that we've needed one. But franchise Qbs aren't the end all...as stats show, many teams win championships without "franchise" Qbs.

I'm not necessarily a proponent of "playing it safe". I want us to get an impact player, and Qbs can sometimes have the wrong kind of impact (sitting on the bench getting paid 7 million per season).

I would advocate taking a Qb high, but I'm taking a much more cautious approach. I hope that the Cards don't get suckered into taking a Qb for the "franchise" factor, and end up missing out on a true impact player.

I hope we make the right decision, but obviously history is against that happening. I would take Rivers because I honestly believe he will be a more than serviceable NFL QB, not because he happens to have been my single favorite player in college last year.

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

Re: Re: QB's

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
But as I showed you, they do come out every year. This year isn't odd whatsoever, it is like any other year, except for the fact that top defensive players aren't quite as good. If there was a Julius Peppers, a Terrance Newman, etc. I would be definitely want us to draft the best defensive player, but this years crop is lackluster.



Maybe I should have said WITH US HAVING A CHANCE TO DRAFT THEM.

This may be our best chance in the next 3 or 4 years to draft a QB who will be a franchise or impact or just plain damn decent QB......you can role the dice on any of them......it's all a crap shoot.....I just say jump on the best when you can.

We can't wait that long.

 

[conraddobler]

I think it is a risk reward type scenario and this year considering we won't in all likelyhood have to trade up or sell the farm to get our crack at Ben or Eli then I think we should take one of them and spin the wheel.

You just don't get that high in the draft with a chance like this very often even as bad as we are we rarely have a shot like this.

There isn't a franchise type defensive player this year solid though the top 5 defensive players may be there isn't someone that just says wow so we might as well roll the dice on the QB and see what fate has in store for us.

We already have our 3rd round project that could in fact turn out to be better than any of that type available this year. That gives us 3 decent options at QB if we keep Blake and fixes a sore spot that has been on our roster for 10 years.

I think you have to seriously just buck up and take the chance it isn't a sure thing it never is but there are no rewards without risk.

 

[Southpaw]

Originally posted by conraddobler
I think it is a risk reward type scenario and this year considering we won't in all likelyhood have to trade up or sell the farm to get our crack at Ben or Eli then I think we should take one of them and spin the wheel.

You just don't get that high in the draft with a chance like this very often even as bad as we are we rarely have a shot like this.

There isn't a franchise type defensive player this year solid though the top 5 defensive players may be there isn't someone that just says wow so we might as well roll the dice on the QB and see what fate has in store for us.

We already have our 3rd round project that could in fact turn out to be better than any of that type available this year. That gives us 3 decent options at QB if we keep Blake and fixes a sore spot that has been on our roster for 10 years.

I think you have to seriously just buck up and take the chance it isn't a sure thing it never is but there are no rewards without risk.

I am biased, but I think Sean Taylor is top 5 player even at safety. Hell, I'd take him #3 with no qualms. Guaranteed taken in top 5. If you don't believe me , watch the Orange Bowl game Jan. 1, 2004.

 

[Duckjake]

We'll know a lot more about where this is going tomorrow/Sunday evening about 6pm CST.

 

[JeffGollin]

We don't need another "project" at QB.

We have McCown and Parsons. What we need is either for McCown to step up and prove he's a bonafide starter or we need to go out and get one.

If Josh steps up, Parsons becomes a capable backup.

If Josh doesn't step up, we'll need a really good veteran or a proven QBOF (i.e. Roethlisberger, Manning or one or two other guys I haven't seen).

The Cards have not been too successful over the years (maybe as far back as Jim Hart) trying to nab a QB they can win with "on the cheap."