Cards Playbook: Batiste Fail Leads to Skelton’s Fumble

[kerouac9]

I mentioned a couple times that D’Anthony Batiste is the real reason that this line sucks. He’s clearly the worst player on the line, and the coaching staff knows it. They do everything they can to help him, which exposes the second-worst player, Bobbie Massie. This over-commitment to helping D’Anthony Batiste lead to John Skelton’s first quarter fumble.

The actual playcall doesn’t really matter, but here it is: 4 wide receiver set with a “levels” concept. Everyone runs pretty good/cool routes in this play. Fitz and the slot WR (just based on size, I’m guessing it’s Roberts; I think that Doucet and Floyd are on the outside here) run “ins” at different levels. The far left receiver runs a corner route, and the wideout split right runs a nifty little double move:

 

[kerouac9]

On the defense, they are running class Quarters package, with the two safeties and two corners each taking a (wait for it) quarter of the field in deep coverage, and the inside guys playing the short to intermediate zones. Fitz gets hand-checked a little bit, which leads to the increasingly common occurrence of begging for a flag. Roberts(?) absolutely gets demolished by the MLB when he comes across the middle. Sorry, Andre:

 

[kerouac9]

Where this play really happens is on the line. Because it’s been happening pretty consistently, Jared Allen knows that he’s probably going to get chipped by the running back if he takes an outside lane. Instead, he’s going to show the upfield lane, then run across Batiste’s face. He runs almost horizontally across the field. On the interior of the line, the defensive tackles run a stunt where the nose tackle attacks the “A” gap and the undertackle loops behind him to the other side of the center. At the same time, Brian Robison is driving directly upfield and pressing Batiste’s outside shoulder:

 

[kerouac9]

Russ had a great post yesterday from Football Outsiders regarding short sacks. I’m guessing this is one of them. Massie does a good job leading Robison into the offensive backfield, and Skelton should have room to step up in the pocket. But because Jared Allen so completely defeats Batiste, there’s no pocket for Skelton to step up into. Skelton has to gather himself and move back and to the left, where Robison has the corner on Massie and strips the ball out:

 

[Hollywood]

Thank you kerouac. I can't believe how much I miss Levi Brown.

 

[MadCardDisease]

When you look at the stat sheet it looks like Massie is at fault because his guy gets Skelton. However it was Bataiste who actaully caused the sack. Great analysis. Thanks

 

[MrYeahBut]

Batiste has hardly moved and Allen is already past him.... no chance. Colledge appears to have engaged the undertackle well enough on the stunt but can't help bail Batiste out.
RG( don't remember who was in the game then) seems to be in good position also.

Running back was in no position to help either.

So K9, my question would be, when the DE makes a quick move to the inside like that, is it still the sole responsibility of Batiste even though the DE inside move puts him out of position to begin with? (not trying to excuse Batiste's horrific play with this question)


.

 

[Russ Smith]

That's at least twice in the game where we planned to chip Allen on the outside(other one is Housler) , and Batiste inexcusably gets beaten inside when he knows he has help outside.

Good job on this one I still think Skelton held the ball too long but now I see why, he couldn't step up and he really couldn't go right safely with where Allen is going so he tried going left and got caught from behind.

It really is true how bad Batiste is.

 

[Hollywood]

When you look at the stat sheet it looks like Massie is at fault because his guy gets Skelton. However it was Bataiste who actaully caused the sack. Great analysis. Thanks

It just shows you how much of a team sport football really is. When one guy fails it often has a ripple effect often making knee jerk reactions on who to blame wrong.

 

[Chopper0080]

Batiste has hardly moved and Allen is already past him.... no chance. Colledge appears to have engaged the undertackle well enough on the stunt but can't help bail Batiste out.
RG( don't remember who was in the game then) seems to be in good position also.

Running back was in no position to help either.

So K9, my question would be, when the DE makes a quick move to the inside like that, is it still the sole responsibility of Batiste even though the DE inside move puts him out of position to begin with? (not trying to excuse Batiste's horrific play with this question)


.

Yes Batiste is responsible for the inside gap specifically because he has help outside. This is why Colledge blocks the inside man, because he should not have to worry about the gap on his left unless he reads blitz from a backer.

 

[PitchShifter]

Thought this tweet was pertinent to the discussion.

Tom Pelissero‏@TomPelissero
#Vikings never sent an extra-man pressure against #Cardinals QB John Skelton. Not one. I've never charted that in a game before.
Retweeted by Kent Somers

 

[MrYeahBut]

Thought this tweet was pertinent to the discussion.

so it basically means 5 Cards (sometimes 6) couldn't successfully block 4 Vikes

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Thank you kerouac. I can't believe how much I miss Levi Brown.

I can't believe how much I miss Mike Gandy.

Batiste may be bad, but he is better than Chris Williams .... right ?

 

[cardpa]

I just voted for Pro Bowl players and cast a vote for every member of the Cardinals OL so I can see some other QB besides ours get killed.

 

[Chopper0080]

so it basically means 5 Cards (sometimes 6) couldn't successfully block 4 Vikes

Yes. We do not have one player on our offensive line that can win a one on one matchup. Pretty pathetic, especially in regards to our interior line.

 

[WildBB]

Russ had a great post yesterday from Football Outsiders regarding short sacks. I’m guessing this is one of them. Massie does a good job leading Robison into the offensive backfield, and Skelton should have room to step up in the pocket. But because Jared Allen so completely defeats Batiste, there’s no pocket for Skelton to step up into. Skelton has to gather himself and move back and to the left, where Robison has the corner on Massie and strips the ball out:

Not the whole story. These Tackles as we ALL should know are coached up drive the rushers to the outsides. When they make moves to the inside as many we face are coached to do against our OLmen, I believe it falls on the interior linemen to pick up the DE's. Batiste with no one to block at that point should swing BEHIND the LG/C or look for stunts from interior DLmen, he should not stay trying to block his DE assignment, yet he is. This is a fundamental FLAW I see in the OL coaching.

Skelton also needs to have better pocket presence (savey) to know that the LE (Massies guy) is coming around from the back side as he's maneuvering left of the pocket.

 

[Russ Smith]

Not the whole story. These Tackles as we ALL should know are coached up drive the rushers to the outsides. When they make moves to the inside as many we face are coached to do against our OLmen, I believe it falls on the interior linemen to pick up the DE's. Batiste with no one to block at that point should swing BEHIND the LG/C or look for stunts from interior DLmen, he should not stay trying to block his DE assignment, yet he is. This is a fundamental FLAW I see in the OL coaching.

Skelton also needs to have better pocket presence (savey) to know that the LE (Massies guy) is coming around from the back side as he's maneuvering left of the pocket.

yes but on THIS play, and another one, Batiste knows he has a chip coming on the outside. Simple logic is if you know you have help outside, you can't get beat inside because that's the side you are accountable for. He got beat inside on both those plays. That's not coaching that's a bad LT.

 

[WildBB]

yes but on THIS play, and another one, Batiste knows he has a chip coming on the outside. Simple logic is if you know you have help outside, you can't get beat inside because that's the side you are accountable for. He got beat inside on both those plays. That's not coaching that's a bad LT.

Likely a huge bit of both....

 

[MadCardDisease]

yes but on THIS play, and another one, Batiste knows he has a chip coming on the outside. Simple logic is if you know you have help outside, you can't get beat inside because that's the side you are accountable for. He got beat inside on both those plays. That's not coaching that's a bad LT.

Yep. I couldn't believe that. Batiste gets help on the outside with a chip but then gets easily beat on the inside. You can't let that happen.

 

[WildBB]

Yep. I couldn't believe that. Batiste gets help on the outside with a chip but then gets easily beat on the inside. You can't let that happen.

Even with the chips our Tackles tend to get beat to the outside.....

 

[kerouac9]

Not the whole story. These Tackles as we ALL should know are coached up drive the rushers to the outsides. When they make moves to the inside as many we face are coached to do against our OLmen, I believe it falls on the interior linemen to pick up the DE's. Batiste with no one to block at that point should swing BEHIND the LG/C or look for stunts from interior DLmen, he should not stay trying to block his DE assignment, yet he is. This is a fundamental FLAW I see in the OL coaching.

Skelton also needs to have better pocket presence (savey) to know that the LE (Massies guy) is coming around from the back side as he's maneuvering left of the pocket.

Not to pile on, BB, but Russ and MCD are right. That Batiste gets destroyed on the interior here is completely unforgiveable. Batiste knows that he has help on the outside. It's the design of the play. You can set a hard interior edge to prevent the bull rush and the inside move. When Batiste goes into his dropstep, Jaren Allen knows that he's already done.

Look how far outside Batiste's shoulder Allen is lined up pre-snap. There's no way that Colledge--who is engaged in a combo block with Sendlein and will pick up the stunting UT as the play develops--can get over and predict that Massie is going to whiff on Allen.

Skelton knows that the heat is on from the right side--the play calls for Massie to be matched up one-on-one, but when he goes to move up in the pocket, Jared Allen is there waiting for him.

 

[dogpoo32]

so it basically means 5 Cards (sometimes 6) couldn't successfully block 4 Vikes

That right there should be enough to fire Russ Grimm. That is pathetic no matter how far down the depth chart we are.

 

[Chopper0080]

That right there should be enough to fire Russ Grimm. That is pathetic no matter how far down the depth chart we are.

This is not to give Grimm a pass, but 5 or 6 guys not being able to block 4 is a personnel problem, not a coaching problem.

 

[kerouac9]

Game Chart: Protections Against the Vikings

This is not to give Grimm a pass, but 5 or 6 guys not being able to block 4 is a personnel problem, not a coaching problem.

Just to give you an idea of the scope of the personnel problem that we have, I did a quick game chart of every called pass to see how the protections went down. My results:

Total plays: 48
Total plays with 5-man protection: 11
Total plays with 6-man protection: 24
Total plays with 7-man protection: 7
Total plays with 8-man protection: 1

That's right: we had a play where only 2 players went initially into patterns, and everyone else except Skelton put a body on a defender.

Massie was a player getting extra help on about 18 plays where there were 6 protectors or more. On fully two-thirds of our offensive plays, we kept extra men in to protect.

 

[WildBB]

When Batiste goes into his dropstep, Jaren Allen knows that he's already done.

Yeah...because it's J. Allen, A/P. He's done it to much better.

Look how far outside Batiste's shoulder Allen is lined up pre-snap. There's no way that Colledge--who is engaged in a combo block with Sendlein and will pick up the stunting UT as the play develops--can get over and predict that Massie is going to whiff on Allen.

College has NO responsability on Massie's guy (Robinson). Since he was picking up the stunt I see where he couldn't help contain the inside on Allen as well. Perhaps he could have and Sendlein could have handled the stunt to his left because HE'S BLOCKING NO ONE.

Skelton knows that the heat is on from the right side--the play calls for Massie to be matched up one-on-one, but when he goes to move up in the pocket, Jared Allen is there waiting for him.

He moved directly left after the drop back from what I saw. Probably because he saw Allen taking the inside and Robinson looping around behind. Bringing the ball back as he's continuing to roll to the left he seemed to me to have NO FEEL that Robinson was right behind him.

Total breakdown from all the ususal suspects, imho.