Cards QB plan: pure speculation

football karma

Michael snuggles the cap space
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Posts
15,234
Reaction score
14,256
Looking at the totality of the moves made by Keim -- I think they point to taking Lamar Jackson in the draft. My rationale (in no particular order) :

1. Signing both Bradford and Glennon provides a QB situation where the rookie taken is in no hurry next year to play -- a guy who if all goes well, can learn for two years before moving into the starting role.

2. Steve Wilks came from Carolina where he watched Cam Newton --a non traditional QB used in a variety of ways (both drop back, but also designed runs, etc) to good effect.

3. Steve Keim has watched Russel Wilson torment for years with his ability to improvise, run, etc --

4. All the moves this offseason have signaled a two year roster "refresh" before getting back to playoff contention -- as an example: taking Badgers full dead money cap hit this year, rather than pushing it off.

5. Keim values draft picks. I think he isnt inclined to give up the haul necessary to get a top four guy, but would rather trade down 6-8 spots, pick up an extra 3rd and take a Jackson.

6. Jackson fits the Keim formula: a superior athlete with all tools, but is a draft bargain because of "x". The "x" in this case is that Jackson needs NFL QB development as a passer. My prediction: if they take Jackson, Keim will say something like "If Lamar stayed for his senior year, and, showed the same passing development he did in the last year, he would be the first guy taken overall in next years draft"

7. They have Mike McCoy -- who got the Denver Broncos into the AFC Divisional playoffs with Tim Tebow as QB. They have a guy who designed an offense that used a running QB who wasnt near the passer a Jackson is.


So i think ( and again, pure speculation on my part) -- if one of the top 4 slides to them, or, comes within range where the trade up is relatively cheap ( 1st + 3rd + next year's 2nd) they do it. But if not, they have the freedom to take a Lamar Jackson, develop him for a couple offseasons and training camps before they have to play him.
 

Solar7

Go Suns
Joined
May 18, 2002
Posts
11,172
Reaction score
12,108
Location
Las Vegas, NV
I hope you're right. I think Jackson would be a smart pick where we stand, and could contribute on the field early in the same sense that Vick did in his rookie year with the Falcons.

A lot of the talk about not sticking to one offensive system makes me think this is a possibility.
 

MadCardDisease

Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
20,755
Reaction score
14,639
Location
Chandler, Az
Yeah the more I think about it the more I doubt the Cardinals move up to grab one of the top 4 guys and just stay at 15. To move up to where they need to be for one of the top 4 would cost a kings ransom. The Cardinals have so many holes to fill and a need to get younger that it would be difficult to part ways with a ton of draft picks.

I could see them drafting Jackson and letting him ride the pine for a year. There would definitely be a buzz around him during the preseason.
 

Stout

Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Joined
Dec 30, 2002
Posts
39,701
Reaction score
23,790
Location
Pittsburgh, PA--Enemy territory!
I wouldn't mind us doing that one bit; I just don't think Keim has any plans to do so. I'll spare everyone the re-hashing of my reasoning :)
 

az jam

ASFN Icon
Joined
Mar 6, 2004
Posts
12,988
Reaction score
5,208
Location
Scottsdale, AZ
I don't think Keim will give up a load of draft picks to move up and take one of the top 4 qbs. IMO Lamar Jackson will be his first choice and Mason Rudolph the 2nd choice.
 

GimmedaBall

Hall of Famer
Joined
Dec 2, 2013
Posts
1,626
Reaction score
1,110
Looking at the totality of the moves made by Keim -- I think they point to taking Lamar Jackson in the draft. My rationale (in no particular order) :

1. Signing both Bradford and Glennon provides a QB situation where the rookie taken is in no hurry next year to play -- a guy who if all goes well, can learn for two years before moving into the starting role.

2. Steve Wilks came from Carolina where he watched Cam Newton --a non traditional QB used in a variety of ways (both drop back, but also designed runs, etc) to good effect.

3. Steve Keim has watched Russel Wilson torment for years with his ability to improvise, run, etc --

4. All the moves this offseason have signaled a two year roster "refresh" before getting back to playoff contention -- as an example: taking Badgers full dead money cap hit this year, rather than pushing it off.

5. Keim values draft picks. I think he isnt inclined to give up the haul necessary to get a top four guy, but would rather trade down 6-8 spots, pick up an extra 3rd and take a Jackson.

6. Jackson fits the Keim formula: a superior athlete with all tools, but is a draft bargain because of "x". The "x" in this case is that Jackson needs NFL QB development as a passer. My prediction: if they take Jackson, Keim will say something like "If Lamar stayed for his senior year, and, showed the same passing development he did in the last year, he would be the first guy taken overall in next years draft"

7. They have Mike McCoy -- who got the Denver Broncos into the AFC Divisional playoffs with Tim Tebow as QB. They have a guy who designed an offense that used a running QB who wasnt near the passer a Jackson is.


So i think ( and again, pure speculation on my part) -- if one of the top 4 slides to them, or, comes within range where the trade up is relatively cheap ( 1st + 3rd + next year's 2nd) they do it. But if not, they have the freedom to take a Lamar Jackson, develop him for a couple offseasons and training camps before they have to play him.

I gave this post a 'Like' based on the thought and effort behind the argument, not because I agree. If one of the 'Top 4' slides it means a lot of QB-hungry teams didn't rate them over a player that was available. Ditto LJ.

Wish we had some insight as to what SW is looking for as a HC---he's a D guy and they look to win games with the D---the O is a necessary evil and are useful only to give the D a break before the D gets back on the field to win the game.

Just because SW coached on a team with Cam doesn't mean that is the type of QB he wants. SW stated that we will be run-oriented---does that mean a QB who can run as well? In that case, LJ would be the perfect QB. It that means the QB is to hand off the ball and get out of the way---that leaves LJ on the board.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
117,446
Reaction score
57,646
I guess I would get nervous at #15 if I'm waiting for Jackson to be there if the other top rated QB's are gone.

Would Jackson be worth making a minor trade down?
 

WildBB

Yogi n da Bear
Joined
Mar 20, 2004
Posts
14,295
Reaction score
1,239
Location
The Sonoran Jungle - West
Looking at the totality of the moves made by Keim -- I think they point to taking Lamar Jackson in the draft. My rationale (in no particular order) :

1. Signing both Bradford and Glennon provides a QB situation where the rookie taken is in no hurry next year to play -- a guy who if all goes well, can learn for two years before moving into the starting role.

2. Steve Wilks came from Carolina where he watched Cam Newton --a non traditional QB used in a variety of ways (both drop back, but also designed runs, etc) to good effect.

3. Steve Keim has watched Russel Wilson torment for years with his ability to improvise, run, etc --

4. All the moves this offseason have signaled a two year roster "refresh" before getting back to playoff contention -- as an example: taking Badgers full dead money cap hit this year, rather than pushing it off.

5. Keim values draft picks. I think he isnt inclined to give up the haul necessary to get a top four guy, but would rather trade down 6-8 spots, pick up an extra 3rd and take a Jackson.

6. Jackson fits the Keim formula: a superior athlete with all tools, but is a draft bargain because of "x". The "x" in this case is that Jackson needs NFL QB development as a passer. My prediction: if they take Jackson, Keim will say something like "If Lamar stayed for his senior year, and, showed the same passing development he did in the last year, he would be the first guy taken overall in next years draft"

7. They have Mike McCoy -- who got the Denver Broncos into the AFC Divisional playoffs with Tim Tebow as QB. They have a guy who designed an offense that used a running QB who wasnt near the passer a Jackson is.


So i think ( and again, pure speculation on my part) -- if one of the top 4 slides to them, or, comes within range where the trade up is relatively cheap ( 1st + 3rd + next year's 2nd) they do it. But if not, they have the freedom to take a Lamar Jackson, develop him for a couple offseasons and training camps before they have to play him.
Or they trade up and grab a stronger armed QB as the long term solution, which they seem to prefer.

nfl/draft/news/2018-nfl-mock-draft-giants-replace-jpp-with-bradley-chubb-cardinals-move-up-to-grab-josh-allen/

Other scenario seems to be they draft the heir #1 WR to take over when Firz is gone.

One of these two options will play out, imo.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk
 

Solar7

Go Suns
Joined
May 18, 2002
Posts
11,172
Reaction score
12,108
Location
Las Vegas, NV
Or they trade up and grab a stronger armed QB as the long term solution, which they seem to prefer.

nfl/draft/news/2018-nfl-mock-draft-giants-replace-jpp-with-bradley-chubb-cardinals-move-up-to-grab-josh-allen/

Other scenario seems to be they draft the heir #1 WR to take over when Firz is gone.

One of these two options will play out, imo.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk
That's not a link, so I can't find it, but I'm assuming the trade up is the same kind of trade that involves us giving up all of our relevant draft picks for years, for a guy with accuracy issues. Let's hope it's not what they prefer.
 

Lomax to Green 84

Hall of Famer
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
1,419
Reaction score
631
Location
Illinois
I can see a team like the Dolphins taking Jackson or either the Steelers or Saints getting aggressive and moving ahead of us for Lamar. Tomlin plans to go to the Louisville Pro Day and Sean Payton recently praised Lamar for his QB talent and special intangible skills.
 
OP
OP
football karma

football karma

Michael snuggles the cap space
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Posts
15,234
Reaction score
14,256
Why i think the Cards could trade down and still get Lamar Jackson (see draft list below):

None of the teams in the 16-39 spot need a qb (im assuming Buffalo moves #22 to get to where they need to be in the top 4). LA Chargers at 17? Not with Ken Whisenhunt as OC. Thats a 9-7 team in a new market that will go position player to fill an immediate need.

Jax at 29? an AFC Champ appearance also has to orient them to immediate help as well.

Maybe NYG at 34 if they dont go QB in Round 1, but Pat Shurmur is a WCO guy. Not sure if Jackson is the best fit for that relative to other QBs outside the top 4.

I get this doesnt guarantee a team below 39 moving up to get a guy they want -- but thats a giant move.

and of of course, somebody has to want somebody at 15 ......



16. Baltimore Ravens
17. Los Angeles Chargers
18. Seattle Seahawks
19. Dallas Cowboys
20. Detroit Lions
21. Cincinnati Bengals from Buffalo Bills
22. Buffalo Bills from Kansas City Chiefs
23. Los Angeles Rams
24. Carolina Panthers
25. Tennessee Titans
26. Atlanta Falcons
27. New Orleans Saints
28. Pittsburgh Steelers
29. Jacksonville Jaguars
30. Minnesota Vikings
31. New England Patriots
32. Philadelphia Eagles

Round 2
Pick (overall)
1 (33). Cleveland Browns
2 (34). New York Giants
3 (35). Cleveland Browns from Houston Texans
4 (36). Indianapolis Colts
5 (37). Indianapolis Colts from New York Jets
6 (38). Tampa Bay Buccaneers
7 (39). Chicago Bears
 

oaken1

Stone Cold
Supporting Member
Banned from P+R
Joined
Mar 13, 2004
Posts
18,094
Reaction score
16,126
Location
Modesto, California
I dont think trading back is an option if we want Lamar. Generally speaking 15 is a bit early for him but playing the draft game just gets us burned. Take him at 15 and dont look back.

your plan makes sense... Bradford is known as an accurate passer that makes safe throws... he would be a good guy to mentor Lamar Jackson.

I have had similar thoughts regarding our staff... while having Cam doesnt guarantee they want a mobile guy......most of our staff did in fact ride his talent to a SB and that has to have an affect on their thinking.

the main reason I was interested in Tyrod Taylor as a bridge was because his style would be a good teaching tool for a guy like Jackson.

maybe we go from Pittsburgh south, to Carolina west.

the thinking is solid on the sit. learn all this year and take over next year.... but Bradfords contract allows a safety net in case more time is needed...or if Jackson needs to come out for a game or two so he can see where he was making mistakes.

while I would prefer moving up to get Darnold I would still see hope for the teams future if Lamar Jackson is the pick at 15.
 

WildBB

Yogi n da Bear
Joined
Mar 20, 2004
Posts
14,295
Reaction score
1,239
Location
The Sonoran Jungle - West
That's not a link, so I can't find it, but I'm assuming the trade up is the same kind of trade that involves us giving up all of our relevant draft picks for years, for a guy with accuracy issues. Let's hope it's not what they prefer.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft...y-chubb-cardinals-move-up-to-grab-josh-allen/

They'd give up their 1st 3 picks to move to #6 in that scenario. They'd have a year or more to develop him.

I'd give this scenario about a 20% chance of happening.

Likelihood of them going a different position other then QB, I'd put at 70% chance.

Liklihood they draft the QB available @ 15, 10% chance. Imho.

Probably 2nd round at the earliest is mtl.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk
 

Jetstream Green

Kool Aid with a touch of vodka
Joined
Feb 5, 2003
Posts
29,476
Reaction score
16,649
Location
San Antonio, Texas
Looking at the totality of the moves made by Keim -- I think they point to taking Lamar Jackson in the draft. My rationale (in no particular order) :

1. Signing both Bradford and Glennon provides a QB situation where the rookie taken is in no hurry next year to play -- a guy who if all goes well, can learn for two years before moving into the starting role.

2. Steve Wilks came from Carolina where he watched Cam Newton --a non traditional QB used in a variety of ways (both drop back, but also designed runs, etc) to good effect.

3. Steve Keim has watched Russel Wilson torment for years with his ability to improvise, run, etc --

4. All the moves this offseason have signaled a two year roster "refresh" before getting back to playoff contention -- as an example: taking Badgers full dead money cap hit this year, rather than pushing it off.

5. Keim values draft picks. I think he isnt inclined to give up the haul necessary to get a top four guy, but would rather trade down 6-8 spots, pick up an extra 3rd and take a Jackson.

6. Jackson fits the Keim formula: a superior athlete with all tools, but is a draft bargain because of "x". The "x" in this case is that Jackson needs NFL QB development as a passer. My prediction: if they take Jackson, Keim will say something like "If Lamar stayed for his senior year, and, showed the same passing development he did in the last year, he would be the first guy taken overall in next years draft"

7. They have Mike McCoy -- who got the Denver Broncos into the AFC Divisional playoffs with Tim Tebow as QB. They have a guy who designed an offense that used a running QB who wasnt near the passer a Jackson is.


So i think ( and again, pure speculation on my part) -- if one of the top 4 slides to them, or, comes within range where the trade up is relatively cheap ( 1st + 3rd + next year's 2nd) they do it. But if not, they have the freedom to take a Lamar Jackson, develop him for a couple offseasons and training camps before they have to play him.

Was thinking the same thing last night actually. Still feel our first pick is going to be Lamar Jackson or Rudolph, and one of those guys is ranked higher by the Cardinals than the national consensus. Damn right it comes across as a gamble with Jackson, but God help the rest of the NFL if he pans out :)
 

Snakester

Draft Man
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
5,459
Reaction score
2,242
Location
North Carolina
I thought the chances of the Cards drafting a QB in the first round were 100% until they traded away Jared Veldheer. Now I don't think they draft a QB at all. They have no choice but to take the best tackle period now. We have nobody to play RT so I see only one player we can draft in the first round and that's Mike McGlinchey. Trading Veldheer had to be one of the dumbest moves that I have ever seen this team make and there have been some bad ones.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
117,446
Reaction score
57,646
Probably looking at him in the 3rd round maybe. That would be reasonable.

This seems about right but I would not be surprised if the Cardinals are just covering their bases and will look at drafting a QB earlier.
 

Lagerfilled

Professional Tailgater
Joined
Mar 23, 2004
Posts
1,578
Reaction score
785
Location
Amen Corner
I doubt they can afford to wait on any QB they take seriously, second round at the latest if they really want him

Correctamundo!!! Word on the street before the Senior Bowl was the Patriots were scouting Lauletta heavily as a Jimmy G type backup until Brady retires.

As far as I’m concerned, if WISK believe he’s the guy and like him better than Jackson or Rudolph, then you move back just a few spots in Round 1, take him, and don’t look back. I would NOT chance him making it all the way to pick 47 based on the way QBs are valued.
 
Top