Mike Kahn has been ranking NBA players by position over the last couple weeks. Today I saw his shooting guard rankings. Things are extremely slow around here, so I thought I would post this and get everybody's feelings.
http://www.sportsline.com/nba/story/7684458
Preseason Player Rankings: Shooting guards
Sept. 15, 2004
By Mike Kahn
SportsLine.com Executive Editor
Tell Mike your opinion!
Entering last summer, the basis of the hottest argument in the NBA might very well have been who do you like better: Kobe Bryant or Tracy McGrady?
Both are amazingly skilled shooting guards who have range that seemingly covers all 94 feet of the court and the ability to scale 7-foot-5 giants for dunks in a single bound.
That's not to say their talent has eroded as we rank the shooting guards going into the 2004-05 season. On the contrary, they are still head and shoulders above the pack and improving, and this time around they have even more to prove.
Bryant, finally able to focus on basketball after the dismissal of his sexual assault trial, now must prove he is the man who can get the Los Angeles Lakers back to championship level.
Despite his contentions, it appears clear that he was at the heart of Shaquille O'Neal being traded and coach Phil Jackson not signing a contract extension. Now Bryant will have Rudy Tomjanovich as coach and Lamar Odom, Caron Butler, Brian Grant and Vlade Divac as his teammates. Bryant has been contending it's his team and not Shaq's; well, this could fit into the category of "be careful what you wish for."
And it isn't as if McGrady got through last season unscathed, either. The Magic got off to a 1-19 start, he placed most of the blame on coach Doc Rivers. Rivers was subsequently fired, and then McGrady quit on the team late in the season. He forced a trade and is now with the Houston Rockets; we'll see if playing for Jeff Van Gundy and with Yao Ming will get him over his season of woe.
Regardless of the nightmarish seasons for both talents, they remain the top shooting guards in the NBA, with Bryant receiving an edge for much better defense and his general floor game.
But the two of them are clearly at a different level than the rest of a still-talented group. The biggest question is where Vince Carter should be ranked. Although he performed better and was healthier last season than in the previous two, the past three seasons haven't been anywhere near the superstar cred he had his first three seasons.
"Nobody is sure where Vince is in his game anymore," one NBA general manager said. "Some people think it's just a matter of him going through a whole year healthy and regaining his confidence. Others think this is just the way he's always going to be."
We'll find out. Same goes for Michael Finley, who has struggled with injuries the past couple of seasons and has consequently been much more erratic down the stretch than the Dallas Mavericks can afford him to be. When he's on, they rarely lose, but it has been far from predictable.
So when it comes to the rankings, both Carter and Finley have dropped below rising young stars Richard Hamilton, Manu Ginobili and Michael Redd, each coming off a breakthrough season. It wasn't easy, but it makes sense based on what we saw to pump up the young guys.
Another interesting case to will be perennial All-Star Ray Allen of the Seattle SuperSonics. Allen missed the first 25 games of last season and never really got back to his All-Star level. As he enters the last season of a contract that pays him more than $14 million, what do the wobbling Sonics do? It has been made eminently clear the team is for sale to the highest bidder. Allen wants a $100 million deal, and the Sonics are in the worst run (out of the playoffs in four of the last six seasons) since they were an expansion team more than 30 years ago.
Young players like Corey Maggette, Joe Johnson and Jason Richardson are also very much on the rise but rarely get recognized because they're playing on struggling teams.
Maggette was sensational at times for the Los Angeles Clippers last season, playing on the wing at both guard and forward. He came into the league so young, leaving Duke after his freshman year, it just took a while for him to find a game.
Johnson's deferential personality made it tough to see how much talent he had until the Suns dealt Penny Hardaway last season, and his numbers soared with the added responsibility.
Richardson, although very athletic, has been erratic with the struggling Golden State Warriors. We'll see if a fundamental coach like Mike Montgomery and a solid point guard like Derek Fisher can push him to a star level player.
Others like Bonzi Wells, Stephen Jackson, Derek Anderson and Larry Hughes are tough to gauge through their extreme highs and lows.
That's why it was easy to put Bryant first and McGrady second. As for the rest, well, good luck weeding it all out.
Ranking the shooting guards:
Last year's rankings
2004 Rank 2003 Stock
1. K. Bryant 1 SAME
2. T. McGrady 2 SAME
3. R. Allen 5
4. R. Hamilton 10
5. M. Ginobili --
6. M. Redd --
7. V. Carter 6
8. M. Finley 7
9. L. Sprewell 8
10. C. Maggette --
Complete 2003 Rankings
1. Kobe Bryant, Los Angeles Lakers: Unquestionably the third-best shooting guard of the past 20 years once you get past No. 23 and No. 45 ... Michael Jordan and, uh, Michael Jordan.
2. Tracy McGrady, Houston Rockets: Coming to the Rockets is a chance for T-Mac to redeem himself and silence all the critics accusing him of being a quitter last season.
3. Ray Allen, Seattle SuperSonics: A great shooter, but he hasn't proved he can raise his teammates' level of play yet and to be paid the maximum, he'll have to do that this season.
4. Richard Hamilton, Detroit Pistons: He is the second coming of Reggie Miller, with less range. He is non-stop motion and the best mid-range shooter in the game but needs to improve his defense.
5. Manu Ginobili, San Antonio Spurs: His toughness and versatility are exceptional, which makes his role more vital on the Spurs. And leading Argentina to the gold medal won't hurt his confidence, either.
6. Michael Redd, Milwaukee Bucks: He blossomed as one of the pre-eminent shooters in the game -- both from 3-point and mid-range. We'll see if he improved at all this summer ... particularly his floor game.
7. Vince Carter, Toronto Raptors: The past three years haven't even been half amazing. It's time for Carter to bounce back and lead this team somewhere, or he'll always be remembered as an underachiever.
8. Michael Finley, Dallas Mavericks: When he's healthy and running the floor, his jump shot is going in from everywhere and he's as effective as any open-floor player in the game. But that has become the exception rather than the rule.
9. Latrell Sprewell, Minnesota Timberwolves: He has lost a little bit off his fastball, but Spree is still capable of taking over games -- big games. But it doesn't happen as often as it used to. But if you ignore him, you're in trouble.
10. Corey Maggette, Los Angeles Clippers: He's so strong and athletic, and his jumper has improved every year. People forget he was 19 when he came into the league, but all of that potential is coming to fruition.
Also receiving consideration: Doug Christie, Sacramento Kings; Bonzi Wells, Memphis Grizzlies; Joe Johnson, Phoenix Suns; Jason Richardson, Golden State Warriors; Stephen Jackson, Indiana Pacers; Quentin Richardson, Phoenix Suns; Larry Hughes, Washington Wizards; Eddie Jones, Miami Heat; Allan Houston, New York Knicks; Derek Anderson, Portland Trail Blazers.
http://www.sportsline.com/nba/story/7684458
Preseason Player Rankings: Shooting guards
Sept. 15, 2004
By Mike Kahn
SportsLine.com Executive Editor
Tell Mike your opinion!
Entering last summer, the basis of the hottest argument in the NBA might very well have been who do you like better: Kobe Bryant or Tracy McGrady?
Both are amazingly skilled shooting guards who have range that seemingly covers all 94 feet of the court and the ability to scale 7-foot-5 giants for dunks in a single bound.
That's not to say their talent has eroded as we rank the shooting guards going into the 2004-05 season. On the contrary, they are still head and shoulders above the pack and improving, and this time around they have even more to prove.
Bryant, finally able to focus on basketball after the dismissal of his sexual assault trial, now must prove he is the man who can get the Los Angeles Lakers back to championship level.
Despite his contentions, it appears clear that he was at the heart of Shaquille O'Neal being traded and coach Phil Jackson not signing a contract extension. Now Bryant will have Rudy Tomjanovich as coach and Lamar Odom, Caron Butler, Brian Grant and Vlade Divac as his teammates. Bryant has been contending it's his team and not Shaq's; well, this could fit into the category of "be careful what you wish for."
And it isn't as if McGrady got through last season unscathed, either. The Magic got off to a 1-19 start, he placed most of the blame on coach Doc Rivers. Rivers was subsequently fired, and then McGrady quit on the team late in the season. He forced a trade and is now with the Houston Rockets; we'll see if playing for Jeff Van Gundy and with Yao Ming will get him over his season of woe.
Regardless of the nightmarish seasons for both talents, they remain the top shooting guards in the NBA, with Bryant receiving an edge for much better defense and his general floor game.
But the two of them are clearly at a different level than the rest of a still-talented group. The biggest question is where Vince Carter should be ranked. Although he performed better and was healthier last season than in the previous two, the past three seasons haven't been anywhere near the superstar cred he had his first three seasons.
"Nobody is sure where Vince is in his game anymore," one NBA general manager said. "Some people think it's just a matter of him going through a whole year healthy and regaining his confidence. Others think this is just the way he's always going to be."
We'll find out. Same goes for Michael Finley, who has struggled with injuries the past couple of seasons and has consequently been much more erratic down the stretch than the Dallas Mavericks can afford him to be. When he's on, they rarely lose, but it has been far from predictable.
So when it comes to the rankings, both Carter and Finley have dropped below rising young stars Richard Hamilton, Manu Ginobili and Michael Redd, each coming off a breakthrough season. It wasn't easy, but it makes sense based on what we saw to pump up the young guys.
Another interesting case to will be perennial All-Star Ray Allen of the Seattle SuperSonics. Allen missed the first 25 games of last season and never really got back to his All-Star level. As he enters the last season of a contract that pays him more than $14 million, what do the wobbling Sonics do? It has been made eminently clear the team is for sale to the highest bidder. Allen wants a $100 million deal, and the Sonics are in the worst run (out of the playoffs in four of the last six seasons) since they were an expansion team more than 30 years ago.
Young players like Corey Maggette, Joe Johnson and Jason Richardson are also very much on the rise but rarely get recognized because they're playing on struggling teams.
Maggette was sensational at times for the Los Angeles Clippers last season, playing on the wing at both guard and forward. He came into the league so young, leaving Duke after his freshman year, it just took a while for him to find a game.
Johnson's deferential personality made it tough to see how much talent he had until the Suns dealt Penny Hardaway last season, and his numbers soared with the added responsibility.
Richardson, although very athletic, has been erratic with the struggling Golden State Warriors. We'll see if a fundamental coach like Mike Montgomery and a solid point guard like Derek Fisher can push him to a star level player.
Others like Bonzi Wells, Stephen Jackson, Derek Anderson and Larry Hughes are tough to gauge through their extreme highs and lows.
That's why it was easy to put Bryant first and McGrady second. As for the rest, well, good luck weeding it all out.
Ranking the shooting guards:
Last year's rankings
2004 Rank 2003 Stock
1. K. Bryant 1 SAME
2. T. McGrady 2 SAME
3. R. Allen 5
4. R. Hamilton 10
5. M. Ginobili --
6. M. Redd --
7. V. Carter 6
8. M. Finley 7
9. L. Sprewell 8
10. C. Maggette --
Complete 2003 Rankings
1. Kobe Bryant, Los Angeles Lakers: Unquestionably the third-best shooting guard of the past 20 years once you get past No. 23 and No. 45 ... Michael Jordan and, uh, Michael Jordan.
2. Tracy McGrady, Houston Rockets: Coming to the Rockets is a chance for T-Mac to redeem himself and silence all the critics accusing him of being a quitter last season.
3. Ray Allen, Seattle SuperSonics: A great shooter, but he hasn't proved he can raise his teammates' level of play yet and to be paid the maximum, he'll have to do that this season.
4. Richard Hamilton, Detroit Pistons: He is the second coming of Reggie Miller, with less range. He is non-stop motion and the best mid-range shooter in the game but needs to improve his defense.
5. Manu Ginobili, San Antonio Spurs: His toughness and versatility are exceptional, which makes his role more vital on the Spurs. And leading Argentina to the gold medal won't hurt his confidence, either.
6. Michael Redd, Milwaukee Bucks: He blossomed as one of the pre-eminent shooters in the game -- both from 3-point and mid-range. We'll see if he improved at all this summer ... particularly his floor game.
7. Vince Carter, Toronto Raptors: The past three years haven't even been half amazing. It's time for Carter to bounce back and lead this team somewhere, or he'll always be remembered as an underachiever.
8. Michael Finley, Dallas Mavericks: When he's healthy and running the floor, his jump shot is going in from everywhere and he's as effective as any open-floor player in the game. But that has become the exception rather than the rule.
9. Latrell Sprewell, Minnesota Timberwolves: He has lost a little bit off his fastball, but Spree is still capable of taking over games -- big games. But it doesn't happen as often as it used to. But if you ignore him, you're in trouble.
10. Corey Maggette, Los Angeles Clippers: He's so strong and athletic, and his jumper has improved every year. People forget he was 19 when he came into the league, but all of that potential is coming to fruition.
Also receiving consideration: Doug Christie, Sacramento Kings; Bonzi Wells, Memphis Grizzlies; Joe Johnson, Phoenix Suns; Jason Richardson, Golden State Warriors; Stephen Jackson, Indiana Pacers; Quentin Richardson, Phoenix Suns; Larry Hughes, Washington Wizards; Eddie Jones, Miami Heat; Allan Houston, New York Knicks; Derek Anderson, Portland Trail Blazers.
