Chad Ford New Article On Garnett Trade

hsandhu

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Ugh, I think chad is smokin some chronic. Saying garnett rumors are floating, and he is hearing garnett to boston??? WTF? With what boston gives up in the trade he is in no better a situation in boston, except out of the west.

Here's hoping chad ford is indeed high, and somehow is misinterpreting a pontential 3 team deal with minny/boston/phx, which was what we were talking about here last night.


http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&id=2907610

If you dont have insider:
Over the weekend, several Eastern Conference general managers told ESPN.com that Minnesota Timberwolves GM Kevin McHale is finally listening to trade offers for Wolves superstar Kevin Garnett.

Any number of teams would want to get involved in the KG sweepstakes, if indeed bidding has opened.

For a couple of years, the Bulls have seemed to be a natural destination for the former Chicago high school star -- Bulls GM John Paxson has stockpiled a lot of young talent that could potentially go to Minnesota in a trade.

But the Wolves might have missed their best chance to make a Chicago deal work. With P.J. Brown entering free agency, two things would have to happen for a KG-to-Chicago trade to be possible: (1) the Bulls would need Brown to agree to a sign-and-trade to make the numbers work, and (2) the Wolves would have to pay Brown upwards of $10 million next season. If those two conditions are not met, it's very unlikely the Bulls and Wolves will be able to make a KG deal under the rules of the collective bargaining agreement.

If KG's not going to Chicago, where could he go? From what I'm hearing -- and at this point it's just a hot rumor -- the Wolves and Boston Celtics talking about a Garnett deal.

In this scenario, Boston would send Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, Sebastian Telfair, Theo Ratliff, and change to Minnesota along with the No. 5 pick in the upcoming draft. In exchange, the Celtics would get Garnett.

While a six-for-one trade would create some awkward roster dilemmas, it could work for Boston in this case because the Celtics would be giving up only one member of their core  Jefferson. Meanwhile, the Timberwolves would get an emerging low-post star, a wing player with a lot of upside, another high draft pick and future cap flexibility.

On Saturday, I spoke with Celtics vice president Danny Ainge about the rumor, and he replied that he would not comment on trade discussions. He did say that the Celtics were talking with a lot of teams at the moment about a number of different trade scenarios, but that none of them were close to happening.

One could argue that the Celtics would be better off trading Paul Pierce and continuing to create a younger team. But if they are committed to keeping Pierce and trying for more immediate success, the Garnett deal would make sense for the Celtics. A combination of Garnett and Pierce would make the Celtics instant contenders in the Eastern Conference.

Even if the Wolves could come to an agreement with the Celtics (or another team) on which players should be involved in a Garnett deal, there are some logistical and risk issues that might kill such a deal.

For Minnesota, Garnett won't be easy to trade to any team.

Garnett is due to be paid $22 million next season, and he could be owed about $3 million more than that because his trade kicker is 15 percent. That makes the mere act of balancing salaries a challenge in any Garnett trade, given the restrictions of the collective bargaining agreement.

On the other hand, to make a trade work under the collective bargaining agreement, Garnett would be allowed to waive part of his trade kicker, if he so chose.

At the same time, acquiring Garnett would come with plenty of risk for the Celtics or any other team.

Garnett can opt out of his contract at the end of next season, meaning that teams may be reluctant to trade a lot of assets for him, given that he could leave next year.

While the Celtics might be willing to offer Garnett a multiyear extension, they would not be allowed to negotiate with Garnett until after both July 1 and the trade. Therefore Boston would run the risk that they could make a major play for Garnett, only to watch him walk away after one season in Celtic Green.

And if the Celtics are willing to offer Garnett an extension, how many years and millions should they offer? Garnett is already 31 years old.

Furthermore, with Garnett and Pierce eating most of the team's cap room, Boston's financial flexibility to make moves to the supporting cast would be severely limited.

So even if Garnett were available, and even though the trade proposed above would be a good one for Boston on paper, it's not the no-brainer it might appear to be at first glance.
 
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hsandhu

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Ok, I said this above, but the more I think about it the more I am stupefied about garnett/pierce/and a whole load of nothing. That team aint winning anything, and wont have the money to add anything as well.

Trying desperately to stay rational about the situation, but this article does make sense why garnett/agent would talk to the suns. They would have to talk about declining his trade kicker and working on an extension. Despite ford's rumor being off, it does give a lot of credibility to that realgm stuff...but still got to stay calm
 
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YouJustGotSUNSD

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Jefferson is as untouchable as amare/nash, and that trade would be ********

its still two good players surrounded by scrubs, and both teams still have no title potential

Does Ford get his rumors out of a cracker jack box?
 

HooverDam

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I kinda disagree, if I was the Celtics, I'd do that deal in a freakin' heart beat and not worry about being short on players. Lets say this deal happens, Bostons starting line up is probably:

C Kendrick Perkins
F Kevin Garnett
F Ryan Gomes
G Paul Pierce
G Delonte West

In the East, thats CERTAINLY a playoff starting 5. Now what would their bench be like? Well, shallow. But so was the Suns bench when they were starting Nash-Q-JJ-Marion-Amare, who came off the bench? LB, Jim Jackson, Steven Hunter.....none of those three were exactly world beaters, LB was a fraction of what he is today.

The Celtics would still have a few usable guys on the bench:
F Wally Szczerbiak
G Rajon Rondo
F/C Brian Scalabrine

Plus they have a lot of guys w/ 2 years or less of experience who would obviously get some minutes, and who knows, perhaps grow. I think thats a fantastic deal for Boston, it certainly gets them into the playoffs. If they only go 7 deep will they win the title? Probably not, but it will certainly get them out of the rut they've been in for years.

Now, on Minny's side of the deal, is it a good deal? Well, its never a 'good' deal when you get rid of a guy like KG, but it would certainly help them rebuild. They'd have the following:

C Mark Blount
F Al Jefferson
F Gerald Green
G Ricky Davis
G Randy Foye

Very young, but certainly has some talent. Definitely lacking in star power. However, with the 5 and 7 picks in an extremely deep draft, the Wolves would be able to do some things. They could get two nice pieces, or maybe move up, or trade one of those picks for a veteran.

Not including #5 and 7, the Wolves would have a bench consisting of:
Rashard McCants
Marko Jaric
Trenton Hassell
Troy Hudson

So it certainly won't strike fear into anyones heart, but its got a lot of youth and 'potential' I suppose. If 5 and 7 can come in and be immediate contributors (and w/ that roster, they'd almost certainly get minutes), Minnesota could have a nice future.

Anyway, I don't know if I'd do it if I was Minnesota, but if they have decided its time to move KG, this would probably be a pretty good deal for them. Better than some of the others I've heard. Its a fantastic deal for Boston and barring injuries almost guarantees them a playoff spot.
 
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hsandhu

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Garnett would never want to play for a team that is even worse than his Twolves.

EXACTLY, who cares if this trade is good for Boston or Minny, why in the hell would garnett agree to go to a place where he has "a good chance of making the playoffs." Are you kidding me? Garnett is Barkley in '92, he wants a ring and nothing less.
 

HooverDam

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Garnett would never want to play for a team that is even worse than his Twolves.

On what planet is that team worse than the Twolves? Lets compare the current Twolves to the proposed Celtics:

Both teams have KG as their main star
The second fiddle on the Twolves is Ricky Davis
The second fiddle on the Celtics would be Paul Pierce (Ill take Pierce over Davis every day of the week)
The Wolves 3rd best player is perhaps...who? Randy Foye? Mark Blount? I think Gomes is probably better than those guys on the whole.

Obviously, KG can veto anything he wants, but Pierce and KG is a great twosome. You have to have 2 superstars in the NBA to be a top team, and while they wouldnt have much else, Boston would certainly have 2 superstars in KG and Pierce.
 
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hsandhu

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On what planet is that team worse than the Twolves? Lets compare the current Twolves to the proposed Celtics:

Both teams have KG as their main star
The second fiddle on the Twolves is Ricky Davis
The second fiddle on the Celtics would be Paul Pierce (Ill take Pierce over Davis every day of the week)
The Wolves 3rd best player is perhaps...who? Randy Foye? Mark Blount? I think Gomes is probably better than those guys on the whole.

Obviously, KG can veto anything he wants, but Pierce and KG is a great twosome. You have to have 2 superstars in the NBA to be a top team, and while they wouldnt have much else, Boston would certainly have 2 superstars in KG and Pierce.

And where are they going with that team. How does that situation appeal to kg.
 
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hsandhu

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Garnett would never want to play for a team that is even worse than his Twolves.

Hey slin, check the profile of the guy who started the talk on realgm. Seems like that guy has a contact with troy hudson, could be the source...
 

HooverDam

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EXACTLY, who cares if this trade is good for Boston or Minny, why in the hell would garnett agree to go to a place where he has "a good chance of making the playoffs." Are you kidding me? Garnett is Barkley in '92, he wants a ring and nothing less.

I disagree, if going to a championship caliber team isn't realistic (it may not be) and KG is sick of Minnesota, going to Boston in this deal, he'd certainly be on a better team and in a weaker conference. If I'm a player, I'd much rather be on a team in a weak division, in a weaker conference, on a team almost certainly guaranteed to make the playoffs than on the same old garbage team that probably won't be in the playoffs in a much tougher conference. Would you rather be on a 50 win team or a 40 win team is perhaps the question.

And where are they going with that team. How does that situation appeal to kg.

You are living in fantasy camp as far as I can tell. KG almost assuredly isn't going to Detroit, Chicago, Phoenix, Miami, Cleveland, San Antonio or Dallas, so you can't act like KG has some legit shot at going to a title contender. So if I'm KG and I'm sick of Minny, yes, I'd rather play in the bigger market of Boston, with a better second fiddle, win 50 games, and perhaps make some noise in the playoffs.
 
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hsandhu

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I disagree, if going to a championship caliber team isn't realistic (it may not be) and KG is sick of Minnesota, going to Boston in this deal, he'd certainly be on a better team and in a weaker conference. If I'm a player, I'd much rather be on a team in a weak division, in a weaker conference, on a team almost certainly guaranteed to make the playoffs than on the same old garbage team that probably won't be in the playoffs in a much tougher conference. Would you rather be on a 50 win team or a 40 win team is perhaps the question.



You are living in fantasy camp as far as I can tell. KG almost assuredly isn't going to Detroit, Chicago, Phoenix, Miami, Cleveland, San Antonio or Dallas, so you can't act like KG has some legit shot at going to a title contender. So if I'm KG and I'm sick of Minny, yes, I'd rather play in the bigger market of Boston, with a better second fiddle, win 50 games, and perhaps make some noise in the playoffs.

Wow you must have some inside info I dont to know where he is not going...
 

HooverDam

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Wow you must have some inside info I dont to know where he is not going...

Well I see you've run out of points, so you've decided to try to flame but whatever. I'm just saying its unlikely he'll go to any of the top teams, for various reasons, teams not wanting to break up what they have, salary issues, lack of talent to send, etc.

Really, your entire point is invalidated by two words: Cleveland Cavaliers. They had ONE star play on their team and went all the way to the Finals from the East. Now, lets say KG and LeBron are each the best players on their teams (Cavs and the potential Celts), I think we can all agree on that. Who does LeBron have as a wing man thats half the player that Paul Pierce is? Larry Hughes certainly isn't. Big Z isn't. The East is weak, the one man LeBron show went to the Finals, why can't the two man Pierce and KG show do the same?
 
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hsandhu

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Well I see you've run out of points, so you've decided to try to flame but whatever. I'm just saying its unlikely he'll go to any of the top teams, for various reasons, teams not wanting to break up what they have, salary issues, lack of talent to send, etc.

Really, your entire point is invalidated by two words: Cleveland Cavaliers. They had ONE star play on their team and went all the way to the Finals from the East. Now, lets say KG and LeBron are each the best players on their teams (Cavs and the potential Celts), I think we can all agree on that. Who does LeBron have as a wing man thats half the player that Paul Pierce is? Larry Hughes certainly isn't. Big Z isn't. The East is weak, the one man LeBron show went to the Finals, why can't the two man Pierce and KG show do the same?

Are you kidding me? Seriously, that is considered a flame?

You say he is definitely not getting traded somewhere, providing no evidence why, and then say I've run out of points... I'm sure 90% of the people who go onto read this thread will know exactly what Slin and I are talking about.
 

HooverDam

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Are you kidding me? Seriously, that is considered a flame?

You say he is definitely not getting traded somewhere, providing no evidence why, and then say I've run out of points... I'm sure 90% of the people who go onto read this thread will know exactly what Slin and I are talking about.

Ok whatever. You still have made ZERO argument about why this new KG lead Boston team is so awful. You think KG-Pierce-Gomes is is far inferior to Big Z-LebRon-Hughes. The Cavs ********* may be better, but I don't know. I think that Celtics ********* is pretty good and could be a competitor in the East. You have yet to provide any reason besides lack of depth (which didn't seem to affect the Suns from going to the WCF a few years back against SA) why this Boston team is so horrible or worse than his current Twolves team.
 
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hsandhu

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Ok whatever. You still have made ZERO argument about why this new KG lead Boston team is so awful. You think KG-Pierce-Gomes is is far inferior to Big Z-LebRon-Hughes. The Cavs ********* may be better, but I don't know. I think that Celtics ********* is pretty good and could be a competitor in the East. You have yet to provide any reason besides lack of depth (which didn't seem to affect the Suns from going to the WCF a few years back against SA) why this Boston team is so horrible or worse than his current Twolves team.

Wow I didnt realize ryan gomes was good enough to be considered a big 3. Yes that celtics team will probably make the playoffs, but so what garnett, wants a chance at a title.

How about Kidd/Jefferson/Carter? That's better than the celts big two, and about the same depth. How'd they do? Got to the second round a couple times, yet were never considered a championship team. And have been mainly been a huge dissapointment.

And the suns had five players that year, 3 all-stars, and one who went on to become an all-star. There's a big difference.

Just ask yourself this, would kobe go to boston? Yeah, that's what I thought. And why not, cause he wants titles.

I answered your argument (unlike you who made a statment that garnett wouldn't got to several teams, w/o any support whatsoever).
 

HooverDam

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I did mention why Garnett probably wouldnt go to those top teams, I didnt address them one by one, sorry. Is that what you'd like? Please re-read my posts and notice I did mention reasons why KG probably wont end up on one of those teams (though I hope he does).

If you think Kidd/Jefferson/Carter is better than KG/Pierce/Gomes, I think I'll just have to agree to disagree. Kidd is old, Jefferson is a poor mans Shawn Marion, Carter is good, but not what he once was. You are talking about two small forwards and an aging PG, with no inside threat on their team. KG is in his prime and is a transcendent player, he's better than any player on the Nets. KG is probably the 2nd best interior player in the league (after Duncan).Pierce is better than Jefferson and equal to Carter and I think Gomes can potentially be very good.

Again, you are totally missing the point, is KG on this proposed Celtics team improving his chances of going deep into the playoffs? I can't see how the answer is anything but a strong yes. Boston is a big market and can probably go a bit into the tax to sign some more depth if they had to. He would be in a weaker conference, he'd have a better 2nd fiddle, but now I'm just repeating myself.

I think you are severely underrating Paul Pierce if you don't think he and KG would do well in the East.

But at this point you've already made up your mind that this trade is the worst idea ever, so I'm done defending the trade as being an alright one.

Just ask yourself this, would kobe go to boston? Yeah, that's what I thought. And why not, cause he wants titles.

Well he an Pierce play the same position, so this makes no sense. They'd be redundant and not make a good team. The inside-outside threat of KG-Pierce however would probably be a good duo, so thats a pretty invalid point.
 
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hsandhu

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You're right, and have convinced me.

KG/PP/and the powerhouse ryan gomes will leave boston fans asking bill russell who? larry bird who? If that team doesn't have at least one three-peat, red auerbach must have done something to piss god off.
 

HooverDam

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You're right, and have convinced me.

KG/PP/and the powerhouse ryan gomes will leave boston fans asking bill russell who? larry bird who? If that team doesn't have at least one three-peat, red auerbach must have done something to piss god off.

I didn't say Gomes was going to be a Super Star, I do think he will be a good player. Go look up his numbers, he averaged 12 points a game, you don't think he can raise that to 16 or so if he's the third option? I didn't say Boston would win a title, just that they arent some last place team like you seem to think.

But whatever, you seem to be the type of poster who refuses to be reasoned with, answers with nothing but sarcasm, and blow what someone says (the Celtics would make the playoffs and perhaps make some noise) into something else (the Celtics will win a bunch of titles and everyone will forget about Russell!). Would you talk to someone in person like that? If not, why talk like that on here? Is it the anonymity that empowers you to blow things completely out of proportion?
 

Cheesebeef

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ouchie and I were talking about this yesterday, talking about who else could make a KG deal and I brought up this kind of trade proposal with Jefferson, #5 and expiring. I'm kind of surprised hsandu that you think the Celts wouldn't be a serious factor in the pathetic eastern conference. They'd have two superstars (both of which when healthy are much better than anything on the Nets IMO) and they would have an inside out game. Pic someone up with the MLE and LLE with West and Gomez and I do think they're able to challenge for an Eastern Conference title.

I also think that's a better deal for the Wolves than what we can offer - a legit, young big (VERY ENTICING), a really high draft pick in a great draft... and salary dump.

it'll be interesting.
 

cly2tw

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ouchie and I were talking about this yesterday, talking about who else could make a KG deal and I brought up this kind of trade proposal with Jefferson, #5 and expiring. I'm kind of surprised hsandu that you think the Celts wouldn't be a serious factor in the pathetic eastern conference. They'd have two superstars (both of which when healthy are much better than anything on the Nets IMO) and they would have an inside out game. Pic someone up with the MLE and LLE with West and Gomez and I do think they're able to challenge for an Eastern Conference title.

I also think that's a better deal for the Wolves than what we can offer - a legit, young big (VERY ENTICING), a really high draft pick in a great draft... and salary dump.

it'll be interesting.


KG has to buy into it too, which is probably the problem that he is not headed to Boston. Better than Nets won't cut it for him, I'd guss.
 

abomb

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ouchie and I were talking about this yesterday, talking about who else could make a KG deal and I brought up this kind of trade proposal with Jefferson, #5 and expiring. I'm kind of surprised hsandu that you think the Celts wouldn't be a serious factor in the pathetic eastern conference. They'd have two superstars (both of which when healthy are much better than anything on the Nets IMO) and they would have an inside out game. Pic someone up with the MLE and LLE with West and Gomez and I do think they're able to challenge for an Eastern Conference title.

I also think that's a better deal for the Wolves than what we can offer - a legit, young big (VERY ENTICING), a really high draft pick in a great draft... and salary dump.

it'll be interesting.

I agree with you on all counts.

BOS made it to the ECFs with Pierce slashing and Antoine Walker shooting four-pointers ffs.
 

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