Chopper's AZ Cardinals Top 60 Big Board

[Chopper0080]

Just a quick post of how I view the top 60 players in the draft from the viewpoint of the Cardinals. Players are ranked based on college production, measurables, athleticism, scheme fit, potential ceiling and ability to contribute right away. I figured we have so many mock drafts out there, that maybe a Top 60 would spark some different discussions.

TOP 60 for Arizona Cardinals as of 3/27/14.

1 - Jaddaveon Clowney - South Carolina - OLB/DE
2 - Khalil Mack - Buffalo - OLB
3 - Greg Robinson - Auburn - OT
4 - Jake Matthews - Texas A&M - OT
5 - Sammy Watkins Jr. - Clemson - WR
6 - Anthony Barr - UCLA - OLB
7 - Aaron Donald - Pittsburgh - DL/OLB
8 - Calvin Pryor - Louisville - S
9 - Kony Ealy - Missouri - OLB/DE
10 - Dee Ford - Auburn - OLB
11 - Blake Bortles - Central Florida - QB
12 - Hasean Clinton-Dix - Alabama - S
13 - Teddy Bridgewater - Louisville - QB
14 - Justin Gilbert - Oklahoma St. - CB
15 - Darqueze Dennard - Michigan St. - CB
16 - Jason Verrett - TCU - CB
17 - CJ Mosley - Alabama - LB
18 - Ryan Shazier - Ohio St. - LB
19 - Jimmie Ward - Nothern Illinois - S
20 - Brandin Cooks - Oregon St. - WR
21 - Demarcus Lawrence - Boise St. - OLB
22 - Taylor Lewan - Michigan - OT
23 - Ra'Shede Hageman - Minnesota - DE
24 - Johnny Manziel - Texas A&M - QB
25 - Devante Adams - Fresno St. - WR
26 - Mike Evans - Texas A&M - WR
27 - Eric Ebron - North Carolina - TE
28 - Kyle Fuller - Virginia Tech - CB
29 - Bradley Roby - Ohio St. - CB
30 - Timmy Jernigan - Florida St. - DT
31 - Louis Nix III - Notre Dame - DT
32 - Xavier Su'a-Filo - UCLA - OG
33 - Jace Amaro - Texas Tech - TE
34 - Brandon Thomas - Clemson - OT
35 - Zach Martin - Notre Dame - OT
36 - Cyrus Kouandijio - Alabama - OT
37 - Kyle Van Noy - BYU - OLB
38 - Stephon Tuitt - Notre Dame - DE
39 - Deone Bucannon - Washington St - S
40 - Derek Carr - Fresno St. - QB
41 - Will Clarke - West Virginia - DE/OLB
42 - Scott Crichton - Oregon St. - DE/OLB
43 - Austin Seferian-Jenkins - Washington - TE
44 - Antonio Richardson - Tenessee - OT
45 - Allen Robinson - Penn St. - WR
46 - Donte Moncrief - Mississippi - WR
47 - Jaylen Watkins - Florida - CB
48 - Bashaud Breeland - Clemson - CB
49 - Lamarcus Joyner - Florida St. - CB
50 - Gabe Jackson - Mississippi St. - OG
51 - Jeremiah Attaochu - Georgia Tech - OLB/DE
52 - Carl Bradford - Arizona St. - LB
53 - Morgan Moses - Virginia - OT
54 - Brent Urban - Virginia - DE
55 - Ego Ferguson - LSU - DE
56 - Anthony Johnson - LSU - DE
57 - Odell Beckham Jr - LSU - WR
58 - Pierre Desir - Lindenwood - CB
59 - Marcus Roberson - Florida - CB
60 - Joel Bitonio - Nevada - OG

 

[kerouac9]

This would be so much easier (and fun) to hash out in a meeting room. It's going to be difficult if nigh impossible to do on a message board.

What I will say is that I find it highly unlikely that the Arizona Cardinals have a transitional/projection player like Aaron Donald at #7 on their board. I don't care if Keim asked him to do linebacker drills at his pro day; Keim and Michael Bidwill flew to Alabama or wherever for Blaine Gabbert's personal interview, too.

Also, I get that the Cards, at some point, would have to consider Bortles and Bridgewater if they fell to #20 overall, but I'm not sure the Cards--Keim or Arians--would be sufficiently intrigued by Manziel to have him on their board in the first round.

Finally (for now), do you think that Mike Evans isn't a great prospect, or do you just consider him not to be a scheme fit for the Cards? I imagine that if somehow Evans fell to the Cards at #20, they'd be all over him.

 

[desertdawg]

This would be so much easier (and fun) to hash out in a meeting room. It's going to be difficult if nigh impossible to do on a message board.

What I will say is that I find it highly unlikely that the Arizona Cardinals have a transitional/projection player like Aaron Donald at #7 on their board. I don't care if Keim asked him to do linebacker drills at his pro day; Keim and Michael Bidwill flew to Alabama or wherever for Blaine Gabbert's personal interview, too.

Also, I get that the Cards, at some point, would have to consider Bortles and Bridgewater if they fell to #20 overall, but I'm not sure the Cards--Keim or Arians--would be sufficiently intrigued by Manziel to have him on their board in the first round.

Finally (for now), do you think that Mike Evans isn't a great prospect, or do you just consider him not to be a scheme fit for the Cards? I imagine that if somehow Evans fell to the Cards at #20, they'd be all over him.

I got Johnny Foozeball ahead of Bridgewater on my Cardboard box, with Bortles ahead of both of them.

 

[cardpa]

This would be so much easier (and fun) to hash out in a meeting room. It's going to be difficult if nigh impossible to do on a message board.

What I will say is that I find it highly unlikely that the Arizona Cardinals have a transitional/projection player like Aaron Donald at #7 on their board. I don't care if Keim asked him to do linebacker drills at his pro day; Keim and Michael Bidwill flew to Alabama or wherever for Blaine Gabbert's personal interview, too.

Also, I get that the Cards, at some point, would have to consider Bortles and Bridgewater if they fell to #20 overall, but I'm not sure the Cards--Keim or Arians--would be sufficiently intrigued by Manziel to have him on their board in the first round.

Finally (for now), do you think that Mike Evans isn't a great prospect, or do you just consider him not to be a scheme fit for the Cards? I imagine that if somehow Evans fell to the Cards at #20, they'd be all over him.

If Bortles was still there when the Cardinals came to the podium I would think that would be the biggest shock of the entire draft. I don't see him getting past #5. If that did happen I would hope that the Cardinals would take him should that unlikely event happen.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Ebron needs to be like 10 spots higher.

 

[BW52]

#25 DeVante Parker stayed in school at Louisville.

 

[BW52]

Why no Troy Niklas TE Notre Dame? A big TE who can block and catch a bit.
I think Derek Carr QB might just be a surprise #20 for the cards.

 

[kerouac9]

Ebron needs to be like 10 spots higher.

For the Cards? Arians likes blocking TEs, and maybe Keim is a little gun-shy after putting his weight behind Rob Housler, who's been a total disappointment just a year after Steve Keim hung the "Superstar" label on him.

 

[Chopper0080]

This would be so much easier (and fun) to hash out in a meeting room. It's going to be difficult if nigh impossible to do on a message board.

What I will say is that I find it highly unlikely that the Arizona Cardinals have a transitional/projection player like Aaron Donald at #7 on their board. I don't care if Keim asked him to do linebacker drills at his pro day; Keim and Michael Bidwill flew to Alabama or wherever for Blaine Gabbert's personal interview, too.

Also, I get that the Cards, at some point, would have to consider Bortles and Bridgewater if they fell to #20 overall, but I'm not sure the Cards--Keim or Arians--would be sufficiently intrigued by Manziel to have him on their board in the first round.

Finally (for now), do you think that Mike Evans isn't a great prospect, or do you just consider him not to be a scheme fit for the Cards? I imagine that if somehow Evans fell to the Cards at #20, they'd be all over him.

First...I will admit, Donald is probably higher for me than he is for the Cardinals. The reason I have him so high is great film, interior pass rusher and position versatility. The ability to get snaps at OLB, DE and DT in various defensive packages and be able to rush the QB out of all of them increases his value for me.

Second, I think at some point you have to look at what Manziel can offer. Honestly, there are tiers in this top 60 where you know the Cards would trade back...Where Manziel is at is definitely one of them.

Finally, I like Evans, but I believe he is redundant to Fitzgerald and Floyd. That isn't to say that a Floyd/Evans combo couldn't work, but I get the impression Arians would like more of a variety in what his wide receivers can offer. If it was a different roster situation, Evans is probably higher, but in terms of what the Cardinals have in place, short and long term, I don't believe Evans is as valuable.

 

[Chopper0080]

If Bortles was still there when the Cardinals came to the podium I would think that would be the biggest shock of the entire draft. I don't see him getting past #5. If that did happen I would hope that the Cardinals would take him should that unlikely event happen.

Nope, it probably won't happen, but you have to rank him regardless.

 

[Chopper0080]

Ebron needs to be like 10 spots higher.

Talent wise...yes. For Arians, I don't think so. I really do buy Arians professed belief that he wants blocking TEs who can catch and not the other way around.

 

[Chopper0080]

#25 DeVante Parker stayed in school at Louisville.

Good catch and changed. Seriously, too many Devante's.

 

[Chopper0080]

Why no Troy Niklas TE Notre Dame? A big TE who can block and catch a bit.
I think Derek Carr QB might just be a surprise #20 for the cards.

Here is my Troy Niklas rant. Sometimes the roles for players in certain schemes doesn't require a top skill set. Troy Niklas is a very good scheme fit for what Arians wants out of a TE. That being said, the ability to block for a TE is not an ability that you want to draft high. A TE like Gronkowski/Heath MIller is worth a first round pick to an Arians team, but a guy like Niklas (who isn't as athletic) is still just an average talent. Niklas brings very little to the passing game. He doesn't strech the field vertically nor does he force the defense to match him up with a S. Because of this, he is a a top 100 guy, not a top 60 guy IMO.

 

[Chopper0080]

Why no Troy Niklas TE Notre Dame? A big TE who can block and catch a bit.
I think Derek Carr QB might just be a surprise #20 for the cards.

re: Carr. If Carr is available at #20, I believe the Cards will probably trade out of the first round. As mentioned on several threads by many people, the 2nd tier of talent in this draft is huge. If a player like Carr is available and you can add high value picks by moving back, it is almost impossible to pass up. 33-40 is about the same in talent as 20.

 

[kerouac9]

Scheme fit and positional need or not, there's zero chance the Cards have the top cornerback in this draft class rated below the top safety.

Can you really say to yourself that if Justin Gilbert, Kony Ealy, and Calvin Pryor are all available when the Cards go on the clock, that the Cards are taking PRYOR?

That's ridiculous.

 

[Jay Cardinal]

Good list, very similar to how I would rank them for the Cards as well. Personally I like Dee Ford over Ealy, and would have Shazier and Lewan a little higher. Also not sure Bridgewater is the type of QB that fits our system real well. I wouldn't be surprised if Hageman and Carr were rated a little higher by Keim.

 

[Chopper0080]

Scheme fit and positional need or not, there's zero chance the Cards have the top cornerback in this draft class rated below the top safety.

Can you really say to yourself that if Justin Gilbert, Kony Ealy, and Calvin Pryor are all available when the Cards go on the clock, that the Cards are taking PRYOR?

That's ridiculous.

It may be ridiculous but that is what I believe. The S class is so light this year and with what S's are getting paid in FA, I think the Cards are resigned to draft one early. Gilbert and Ealy are players who have higher ceilings but Gilbert is barely sniffing the field in 2014 while the OLB/DE is one of the deepest in the draft. CB is also very deep.

Lets break it down.

At S we have Rashad Johnson, Tony Jefferson and an injured Tyrann MAthieu who plays CB in sub packages. Not much depth and huge question marks unless the staff is mucher higher on Jefferson than we know.

At CB we have Peterson, Cromartie and Powers, with Bethel being given a chance to show he can contribute on defense. Cromartie is a FA next year, but everyone else is still on the roster. Also, Mathieu plays the slot in sub packages when he gets healthy. This puts our depth chart once he returns healthy as PP, Cro, Mathieu, Powers and Bethel. I just don't see how Justin Gilbert contributes until 2015 which would have resulted in a wasted year. The possibility of getting a Jaylen Watkins in the 2nd or 3rd makes me believe the Cards will devalue the first round CB.

At OLB Ealy provides length, but he is also very much a tweener who played best in college as a DE. It isn't saying that he can't transition, but between the two, I believe the S wins out. Also, this draft is loaded with 3-4 OLBs which drops Ealy a little in comparison to Pryor. But lets keep things real, Ealy is still #9 on the board.

 

[cardncubfan]

Good stuff Chopper as always. Great explanations as well.

 

[kerouac9]

It may be ridiculous but that is what I believe. The S class is so light this year and with what S's are getting paid in FA, I think the Cards are resigned to draft one early. Gilbert and Ealy are players who have higher ceilings but Gilbert is barely sniffing the field in 2014 while the OLB/DE is one of the deepest in the draft. CB is also very deep.

Lets break it down.

At S we have Rashad Johnson, Tony Jefferson and an injured Tyrann MAthieu who plays CB in sub packages. Not much depth and huge question marks unless the staff is mucher higher on Jefferson than we know.

At CB we have Peterson, Cromartie and Powers, with Bethel being given a chance to show he can contribute on defense. Cromartie is a FA next year, but everyone else is still on the roster. Also, Mathieu plays the slot in sub packages when he gets healthy. This puts our depth chart once he returns healthy as PP, Cro, Mathieu, Powers and Bethel. I just don't see how Justin Gilbert contributes until 2015 which would have resulted in a wasted year. The possibility of getting a Jaylen Watkins in the 2nd or 3rd makes me believe the Cards will devalue the first round CB.

At OLB Ealy provides length, but he is also very much a tweener who played best in college as a DE. It isn't saying that he can't transition, but between the two, I believe the S wins out. Also, this draft is loaded with 3-4 OLBs which drops Ealy a little in comparison to Pryor. But lets keep things real, Ealy is still #9 on the board.

I'll argue that with Yeremiah Bell still unsigned, along with Chris Clemons, Thomas DeCoud, Mike Adams, Ryan Clark, and Michael Huff still available, that there continue to be free agents available now and after the draft who can fill an immediate need.

I'd further argue that when the Cards put their eggs in the Rashard Johnson and Yeremiah Bell basket last year, they were tipping their hand that the Horton defense doesn't require All-Pro safety play; just someone who can be in the right place at the right time. We had a Top 10 defense with Rashard Johnson and Yeremiah Bell; are we going to get that much better with a rookie safety? Is Calvin Pryor going to add so much more value than Ed Reynolds, Dion Bailey, or Kenny Ladler later in the draft?

W/R/T Cornerbacks, I agree that it's not a dire need. You accurately reflect what's available and currently on the roster. But a top-quality, cost-controlled cornerback is a huge value to any team. I don't think the Cards would take any corner in the first round, but if Dennard or Gilbert were available, I think they'd be more valuable than incomplete, non-special prospects like Pryor or Clinton-Dix, even if you're not going to see their complete contributions until 2016.

Doesn't what you say about Ealy and the OLBs in general apply more so than what we have at safety? We have Abraham and basically nothing after him at OLB, and you'll agree that OLB is a greater impact position--in this and any defense--than safety.

I'm even a little surprised that you don't have greater value at DE in your rankings. First, let's not pretend that Aaron Donald is a legit first-round DE prospect for the Arizona Cardinals. He's too short and too light for what we want to do at the position to be anything more than a sub-package DE who rarely will play there (about as much as Gilbert would play CB as a rookie). But while we have Campbell under contract for the long term, we don't have much after him and Dockett, who will need to have his contract addressed next year. I imagine that if you can't upgrade at OLB early in the draft, you can upgrade the pass rush by adding young depth and keeping your stars fresh--Campbell played 89% of all defensive snaps last year, and Dockett played almost 80%.

Plus, Dockett and Campbell play an absurd amount of special teams--Campbell in particular played 10 special teams snaps a game.

 

[Chopper0080]

I'll argue that with Yeremiah Bell still unsigned, along with Chris Clemons, Thomas DeCoud, Mike Adams, Ryan Clark, and Michael Huff still available, that there continue to be free agents available now and after the draft who can fill an immediate need.

I'd further argue that when the Cards put their eggs in the Rashard Johnson and Yeremiah Bell basket last year, they were tipping their hand that the Horton defense doesn't require All-Pro safety play; just someone who can be in the right place at the right time. We had a Top 10 defense with Rashard Johnson and Yeremiah Bell; are we going to get that much better with a rookie safety? Is Calvin Pryor going to add so much more value than Ed Reynolds, Dion Bailey, or Kenny Ladler later in the draft?

W/R/T Cornerbacks, I agree that it's not a dire need. You accurately reflect what's available and currently on the roster. But a top-quality, cost-controlled cornerback is a huge value to any team. I don't think the Cards would take any corner in the first round, but if Dennard or Gilbert were available, I think they'd be more valuable than incomplete, non-special prospects like Pryor or Clinton-Dix, even if you're not going to see their complete contributions until 2016.

Doesn't what you say about Ealy and the OLBs in general apply more so than what we have at safety? We have Abraham and basically nothing after him at OLB, and you'll agree that OLB is a greater impact position--in this and any defense--than safety.

I'm even a little surprised that you don't have greater value at DE in your rankings. First, let's not pretend that Aaron Donald is a legit first-round DE prospect for the Arizona Cardinals. He's too short and too light for what we want to do at the position to be anything more than a sub-package DE who rarely will play there (about as much as Gilbert would play CB as a rookie). But while we have Campbell under contract for the long term, we don't have much after him and Dockett, who will need to have his contract addressed next year. I imagine that if you can't upgrade at OLB early in the draft, you can upgrade the pass rush by adding young depth and keeping your stars fresh--Campbell played 89% of all defensive snaps last year, and Dockett played almost 80%.

Plus, Dockett and Campbell play an absurd amount of special teams--Campbell in particular played 10 special teams snaps a game.

A couple responses...

First, I believe Calvin Pryor's ceiling is Jarius Byrd. They are very similar to their aggressive natures and their ability to play both positions. Similar stature as well as athletic ability. One thing that strikes regarding Pryor is that he plays fast on tape. Considering that with his combine numbers you can determine that he plays with great awareness and recognition. Regarding how the Cardinals value the S position, I don't know. You are correct that we did well last year with sub par talent. That being said, we also got eaten alive by TEs and I am pretty sure Dansby covered up some of our deficiencies.

Re: cornerbacks, I will concede to a point with Gilbert due to his substantial athletic ability. I think people undervalue how much more athletic Gilbert is vs Dennard who is going to have to play more his his feet in the NFL which I believe will cause a rough transition. So yes, I can see why the Cardinals would take a talented CB like Gilbert in round 1 and even over Pryor if they devalue S as you claim.

OLB and Ealy. Ealy falls below Pryor due to the uncertainty of his transition to a stand up role. It isn't a huge concern for me, but with Abraham, Shaughnessy and Acho in the roster the Cardinals can afford to take a player like Attouchu a couple rounds later and still get a productive edge rusher. So, Ealy is below Pryor more due to risk and draft positional depth.

In terms of DEs, I am uncertain because I feel the Cardinals are uncertain. They have Dockett, Campbell and Rucker, but only Campbell is a "long" DE. I also haven't seen them draft a DE so it is tough to project what they are looking for. Some project the Cardinals to draft two gap DE's but I don't believe they run that scheme which is why the LSU DTs are lower than you might see other places. Also, the other top DE prospects have their issues. Hageman has some personal issues that have been creeping up as well as motor issues. Tuitt has never shown me an ability to cross the face of the tackles which is key for DE's to rush out of a 3-4. My favorite is probably Will Clarke who is long, lean but plays with strength and leverage needed. He is also quick enough to pressure the B and C gaps. IMO, 3-4 DEs are a weak spot in this draft and I would prefer not to add one just to do so. I get your concern and it will need to be addressed, but I see very few prospects who fit the Cardinals verbalized preference. Maybe Brent Urban out of Virginia in rounds 3 or 4 is given a shot due to his ability to dominate in spurts.

 

[Chopper0080]

One more point regarding CBs, the Cardinals and the draft. One thing the Cardinals have claimed is they are building a roster to compete and win the NFC West first and foremost. I believe most will agree they have done this so far. In relation to that, drafting a CB makes even less sense. In a matchup league, who is your 4th or 5th CB lining up against? Rams, Seahawks and 49ers all have limited WR talent. If the Cardinals are building a roster to beat those teams, then they are building as roster filled with players who can stop the run, run down mobile QBs, and make plays in space. I believe Pryor brings more of this to the table than Gilbert. Ealy is close though.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

You pick Justin Gilbert if he is for some reason available over just about anyone, IMO.

K9, if not Donald then what pass rusher would you think the Cardinals would be looking at, at #20?

Sent from my free Superphone

 

[kerouac9]

You pick Justin Gilbert if he is for some reason available over just about anyone, IMO.

K9, if not Donald then what pass rusher would you think the Cardinals would be looking at, at #20?

Sent from my free Superphone

For some reason, McShay and Kiper seem to think that UCLA OLB Anthony Barr May slide into the 20s. That's who I'd want.

I'll cop to not watching tape of Aaron Donald yet. What game should I watch that will have me walking away impressed that he can rush from the edge?

 

[Chopper0080]

For some reason, McShay and Kiper seem to think that UCLA OLB Anthony Barr May slide into the 20s. That's who I'd want.

I'll cop to not watching tape of Aaron Donald yet. What game should I watch that will have me walking away impressed that he can rush from the edge?

There aren't any that I have been able to find. I know you hate highlight tapes, but I do like this one in terms of highlighting how Aaron Donald was so successful in college. http://youtu.be/u3YKvx6LcBs

a couple things you will notice.

1-Donald's is consistently one of the first players off the ball.

2-Donald diagnosis plays very quickly enabling him to not rush past the play which can happen with player show have such a fast step.

3-Donald plays with great hands which consistently allows him to create space from offensive linemen which prevents him from being held as much and results in flags when he does. Dockett struggles with this because he uses power in close to the body which allows offensive linemen to grad him close.

Now, this is a highlight video so you aren't seeing any negative plays but really, Donald did not have a ton during the season. You can you tube his games vs Florida St and Virginia Tech I believe to see him play against better talent.

 

[Chopper0080]

For some reason, McShay and Kiper seem to think that UCLA OLB Anthony Barr May slide into the 20s. That's who I'd want.

I'll cop to not watching tape of Aaron Donald yet. What game should I watch that will have me walking away impressed that he can rush from the edge?

Yeah, I don't get it either but Barr would be awesome. Matt Miller at Bleacher Report (a decent draft guy despite never being a pro scout) also shares the belief that if Barr gets past Tennessee, he oculd fall to Arizona because of lack of scheme fits.