Closer without the "C" = "B-R-U-N-E-Y"

[ActingWild]

Wow...just when you think we have a lead big enough to risk bringing Brian Bruney into a game...

When does Lyon or Aquino get back?????

 

[thirty-two]

seriously.. bruney sucks!

 

[AZZenny]

Guess what - we don't have to go scrounging up other teams' cast-off lousy relievers - we can grow our own!

He gets no more patient rationalizations from me.

My first non-violent thought was 'Release him - NOW' - but I suppose immediate demotion, maybe to Tennessee, is more likely.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

When does Lyon or Aquino get back?????

From today's AZCentral article:

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cheapseats/gambo/0606rant.html

The Diamondbacks bullpen has been battered by injuries and they currently have three of their top relievers on the shelf. Last season's closer Greg Aquino, who has an elbow problem, may be back within the next week to 10 days after a rehab assignment in Tucson. This year's closer Brandon Lyon is just finishing his required rest and could start rehabbing in the next week.

Gambo some times isn't the most credible source, however, I do not assume that he would write that information without getting the most accurate details first..

 

[ActingWild]

From today's AZCentral article:

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cheapseats/gambo/0606rant.html



Gambo some times isn't the most credible source, however, I do not assume that he would write that information without getting the most accurate details first..

Thanks KLL. We desperately need these guys back!

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Thanks KLL. We desperately need these guys back!

Lyon and Aquino will help, but we're still going to need more bullpen depth. Koplove, Bruney, and Javier Lopez cannot be relied upon to get important outs down the stretch.

 

[devilalum]

From today's AZCentral article:

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cheapseats/gambo/0606rant.html



Gambo some times isn't the most credible source, however, I do not assume that he would write that information without getting the most accurate details first..

They won't sit Green indefinitely. NO WAY

 

[Lefty]

I have been saying Bruney does not have that closer mentality. He sometimes looks scared and sometimes he looks lost.

 

[boondockdrunk]

I have been saying Bruney does not have that closer mentality. He sometimes looks scared and sometimes he looks lost.

Actually scouts have said the exact opposite of him. They think he does have the closer mentality because he isn't afraid and he has a short memory. Now that being said, the biggest problem with Bruney is by far his control.

 

[AZZenny]

Mentality Schmentality. I have a closer mentality - but I can't pitch a lick, and neither can Bruney.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

I have been saying Bruney does not have that closer mentality. He sometimes looks scared and sometimes he looks lost.

He also doesn't have an effective breaking-pitch... I've been posting that constantly since last season.... Everyone is pretty much anticipating his fastball, so he tries to nibble around the plate because of his own area of deficiency..... Then..as a result he always falls behind in the count and must go for ...you got it... his fastball and again everyone is poised..digging in.. prepared for it.....

Here's a short-list of relievers that may become available... (this is all done from memory)...

Dotel (As): He's currently on the DL, however, is due off in the relatively near future... Street is their closer of the future and notched his first career save this past week....The question is.. how much would Beane demand from the Dbacks?

Julio (Orioles): Currently is their set-up man and was rumored a few times to be linked to the Dbacks this past off-season.... I don't know what their main areas of need are (especially since they're sitting ontop of the AL East, dont know if they'd part with anyone at the moment)....

Urbina (Tigers): Percival is due off the DL w/in the next couple days and the Tigers have been desperately seeking a buyer for Urbina.... Even if Percival doesnt return back to full-form for them..they still have highly regarded closing prospect Franklyn German waiting in the wings......

Riske (Indians): He's more of a set-up type reliever, however, has had a history of pitching several innings in a season.. would be an ideal set-up man to go along with Herges.....

I forgot that the Dbacks had signed, Armando Almanza, to a Minor League contract a few months ago... He has some decent stats for the Sidewinders:

6-Games
1-0
1.35 ERA
10Ks, 3BBs

Also, Kevin Tolar has been pretty solid in 19 relief appearances... I wouldnt be shocked to see either of those promoted soon...especially if Bruney continues to struggle horribly.....

Although... I wouldnt do anything out of impulse yet... I'll wait until Aquino and Lyon return along to see how Herges and Vargas do in their roles.....

 

[boondockdrunk]

Mentality Schmentality. I have a closer mentality - but I can't pitch a lick, and neither can Bruney.

He is 23!! You are giving up on his already?!?! I am not saying he is great, and I was cursing when watching him pitch today; but I think it is a little early to be giving up on someone his age.

 

[AZZenny]

Dotel (As): He's currently on the DL, however, is due off in the relatively near future... Street is their closer of the future and notched his first career save this past week....The question is.. how much would Beane demand from the Dbacks?

Dotel has opted for season-ending surgery despite 4 docs saying it isn't necessary. Besides, we all know what Beane would demand.

Look - this team is not likely to get into a real pennant race this year, and it's not just because of our bullpen. To trade away top talent - and that's what teams will demand for a 'reliable closer' (oxymoron) for short term gain this year is nuts. Any team in serious contention isn't likely to trade anyone good until the deadline, anyhow.

He is 23!! You are giving up on his already?!?! I am not saying he is great, and I was cursing when watching him pitch today; but I think it is a little early to be giving up on someone his age.

KLL is right - for a couple years, the team and scouts have said Bruney HAS to develop at least one more out pitch - well, he hasn't. He doesn't belong in the bigs until he masters that little piece, is what I'm saying; attitude looks nice on the mound, but without the weapons, it's all baloney and major league batters can smell it.

 

[Lefty]

Look - this team is not likely to get into a real pennant race this year, and it's not just because of our bullpen. To trade away top talent - and that's what teams will demand for a 'reliable closer' (oxymoron) for short term gain this year is nuts. Any team in serious contention isn't likely to trade anyone good until the deadline, anyhow.
[COLOR]

Can I save this? I will stay positive with this team. It's a long season and they will go on a winning streak again. I think the Diamondbacks will stay in contention, even if it's for the wild card. The season still has a long way to go to say they won't contend.

 

[AZZenny]

I should have been clearer - I don't think a wild card or even an NL Western division win is out of the question - but compared to other divisions in the NL, the winner of the NL West hardly stands a chance to move on (as all teams are now constructed, obviously between injuries and trades, there may be massive revisions) and I truly do not think this DBacks team could win the NL pennant even if they miraculously got that far.

 

[WizardOfAz]

Urbina (Tigers): Percival is due off the DL w/in the next couple days and the Tigers have been desperately seeking a buyer for Urbina.... Even if Percival doesnt return back to full-form for them..they still have highly regarded closing prospect Franklyn German waiting in the wings........

Take him off the list...he was dealt to the Philles today.

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

They won't sit Green indefinitely. NO WAY

Seriously. Terrero hasnt been doing all that well either, so I dont think Green is in danger yet. I think Cruz might be on the bubble soon, as he has been mightily stuggling lately.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

Take him off the list...he was dealt to the Philles today.

I'm shocked that all it took for the Phillies to acquire Urbina was Placido Polanco.. Nothing against Polanco (he could thrive if he played on a daily basis), but I was certain that Dave Dombrowski would have demanded more for Urbina (especially for younger prospects) and the IF positions arent major needs for the Tigers since Inge, Infante, and Guillen arent all that bad themselves.. Usually Dombrowski would demand for a couple of AA prospects....

Reason why I went into detail though about the Tigers is because if all it took was Polanco... I wonder if the Dbacks considered offering (that is if they got involved in any trade talks with the Tigers) Cintron.... I know Polanco is somewhat proven compared to Cintron, however, Cintron slightly has a better upside than Polanco does....Oh well...

Thanks for clarifying about Dotel..guess I had completely overlooked those reports.....

The main reason why I support (besides trying to win the NL West and potentially advance even further in the postseason which we never know what can materialize) the Dbacks acquiring a 'legit closer is because I'm still concerned that Villarreal will never return, that there's still questions concerning Aquino (even though he's slated to be reactivated soon) and obviously dont know about Lyon's long-term status....

Bruney is horrid and I'm concerned that eventually the likes of Cormier and now Edgar Gonzalez will become overextended like all the promising Dbacks relief prospects before them... There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that Herges will help effectively stablize the BP and the fiasco known as Ligtenberg failed miserably in that role.....

 

[AZZenny]

The main reason why I support (besides trying to win the NL West and potentially advance even further in the postseason which we never know what can materialize) the Dbacks acquiring a 'legit closer is because I'm still concerned that Villarreal will never return, that there's still questions concerning Aquino (even though he's slated to be reactivated soon) and obviously dont know about Lyon's long-term status....

Bruney is horrid and I'm concerned that eventually the likes of Cormier and now Edgar Gonzalez will become overextended like all the promising Dbacks relief prospects before them... There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that Herges will help effectively stablize the BP and the fiasco known as Ligtenberg failed miserably in that role.....

No argument with any of that from me, KLL - I was musing over Lyons today - he apparently may be out till the ASB. IF rest fails, it'll mean TJ surgery - gone for at least a year - at what point does a team have to shrug and say - too much damage and not enough production for our escalating costs?

I was also fretting that my boy Lance ( I picked him out from the herd way early) will be the next overuse casualty, that Oscar will never surface again, that Valverde has lost something (though they were stunned by his good control when he came up; he'd always been a control problem according to the departed Tommy Jones), Bruney is not ready for prime time, Herges is awful.... I was horrified tonight when I checked on Lopez's and Bruney's numbers vs L/vs R to see that Bruney is actually BETTER against BOTH!!

So yes, we need relievers - BUT - study after study has shown that relievers are, from one year to the next, the least consistent of all players and the hardest to predict/project; that bullpens made up of the same staff vary wildly from one season to the next or within season; that only a tiny minority of closers pitch successfully in that role longer than 3 years before basically decompensating - so I still think it is foolish to trade good prospects for any closer or reliever.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

so I still think it is foolish to trade good prospects for any closer or reliever.

It could also be argued that it's just as foolish to watch the division and wild card lead distance themselves from you because you stick with a horrid bullpen that is showing no signs of improvement. I have no problem with what the DBacks are doing now in mixing and matching to try and find the right combination, but if this bullpen sucks around the deadline and we're still in the thick of it, you have to get involved in a few deals that wouldn't obviously include Jackson/Quentin/Drew/Upton.

 

[AZZenny]

Right, I should have said 'Top' prospects. My bad.

I'm fine trading a whole bunch of 'good' ones, since we'll have to clear roster space anyhow - we may as well trade them as lose them to rule 5. I'm not OK trading the top 5 or 6. Esp. with our record of picking up pitchers in mid-season.

Hey - Daigle actually is doing extremely well in relief at AA ball - wouldn't be surprised to see him moved to Tucson soon.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Right, I should have said 'Top' prospects. My bad.

I'm fine trading a whole bunch of 'good' ones, since we'll have to clear roster space anyhow - we may as well trade them as lose them to rule 5. I'm not OK trading the top 5 or 6. Esp. with our record of picking up pitchers in mid-season.

Hey - Daigle actually is doing extremely well in relief at AA ball - wouldn't be surprised to see him moved to Tucson soon.

I'm wondering what Jeremy Affeldt is going to cost. A LH power arm with closing experience would be a huge boost to this pen but like I said, it depends what the Royals are asking for him.

 

[AZZenny]

RANT alert: Last night I was banging my head against the steering wheel while Bordow of the Trib said Voldemort is looking at Bob Wickman, Jose Mesa, Jeremy Affeldt and Danys Baez, to 'settle down' our bullpen and would look at trading some talent - Cintron, Santos, Hairston were likely possibilities he said (and then said 'if we had Aquino or Cormier as set up and Mesa or Wickman as closer it could be like when the Giants had Rodriguez and Nen'! What was he snorting!? --oh, wait - my bad, maybe he meant when Nen was injured.)

After I was done shrieking "Wickman's Old and Fat! Mesa's Old and Fat! Affeldt lost his closer's job in friggin' KANSAS CITY and he's not healthy! Baez has a bad shoulder!!"

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It occurred to me another name in trade might be Tracy, and let Conor and Clark man 1st. Unlikely, but not impossible. In which case, what the hell! - I'm all for it -- bring on an old fat injured closer!

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This morning I hear Eddie Guardado is under consideration, too. Hmmm... well, OK, if he doesn't cost too much.

A minor point - the pen is not going to be THAT improved by any one guy. The old chestnut 'They'll know their roles and everybody can relax and prepare' nonsense is being trotted out now - they could be given set-in-stone roles right now, if BoMel and staff chose to do so (and would ever stick with it) (and if the starters could be predictable about their innings before they lose it) - I doubt it would make any difference at all in the combined or individual WHIP or ERA of the rest of them.

I was so annoyed that Matt HurtUs actually had a fair inning last night - now he may have bought himself more time.

Did you all realize Bruney has actually only blown one save? I sure didn't.

 

[devilalum]

RANT alert: Last night I was banging my head against the steering wheel while Bordow of the Trib said Voldemort is looking at Bob Wickman, Jose Mesa, Jeremy Affeldt and Danys Baez, to 'settle down' our bullpen and would look at trading some talent - Cintron, Santos, Hairston were likely possibilities he said (and then said 'if we had Aquino or Cormier as set up and Mesa or Wickman as closer it could be like when the Giants had Rodriguez and Nen'! What was he snorting!? --oh, wait - my bad, maybe he meant when Nen was injured.)

After I was done shrieking "Wickman's Old and Fat! Mesa's Old and Fat! Affeldt lost his closer's job in friggin' KANSAS CITY and he's not healthy! Baez has a bad shoulder!!"

You must be registered for see images

It occurred to me another name in trade might be Tracy, and let Conor and Clark man 1st. Unlikely, but not impossible. In which case, what the hell! - I'm all for it -- bring on an old fat injured closer!

You must be registered for see images

This morning I hear Eddie Guardado is under consideration, too. Hmmm... well, OK, if he doesn't cost too much.

A minor point - the pen is not going to be THAT improved by any one guy. The old chestnut 'They'll know their roles and everybody can relax and prepare' nonsense is being trotted out now - they could be given set-in-stone roles right now, if BoMel and staff chose to do so (and would ever stick with it) (and if the starters could be predictable about their innings before they lose it) - I doubt it would make any difference at all in the combined or individual WHIP or ERA of the rest of them.

I was so annoyed that Matt HurtUs actually had a fair inning last night - now he may have bought himself more time.

Did you all realize Bruney has actually only blown one save? I sure didn't.

Don't you think they're probably looking at these marginal guys because an A quality arm would cost them one of your boys. Be careful what you rant about/wish for. The Dbacks could probably get a quality closer for Conner or Quentin. Trouble is they'd still have NO CHANCE of winning a playoff series even if they lucked out and made it there.

With no quality pitching in our system that is even close to being ready (correct me if I'm wrong) they're going to have to look at trading some young position talent for pitching sooner or later. The only other option is to sign guys in the off season but its not like we're the Yankers.

Then again they had a descent bullpen 2 years ago and those guys seemed to just materialize out of thin air.

 

[devilalum]

Did you all realize Bruney has actually only blown one save? I sure didn't.

Yeah but his ERA's 5.8 and god only knows how many runs he's passed through on somebody elses ticket. He also only has 6 saves to go with 1 win and TWO losses.