Collins

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think the point is, why waste 1st round draft picks on ILBs who the DC is not interested in playing as rookies? The position of ILB isn't terribly valuable in comparison to others and wasting a cost controlled year becomes much more concerning when we end up paying Kyler 40mil per year.

VJ may just be very rookie averse. Not shocking, when you know your job is on the line most people typically go with an experienced hand rather than rolling the dice on inexperienced talent. And that likely amps up and down depending upon position. Not that I agree that’s the right tact, but I understand the reasoning.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Didn't we do this ad nauseam last year about Simmons and yesterday everyone loves that he was a world beater? They tried to trade him and didn't get any takers. Why not use the experience and let the rookie find his way?

We tried to trade Simmons?!? When was this???

 

[RON_IN_OC]

What happened that Collins didn’t play more. Thought he was hof material from the jump. Was it injury or lack of performance? Didn’t see anything in the media after the game.

So, I'm gonna say it had more to do with mental aspects and not physical attributes. Remember when Collins was drafted and it was expressed Hicks would be backup and Collins would be a green dot guy? Then we were all surprised a couple weeks ago when it was said Hicks would play a bigger role? Well, Hicks was still the green dot guy yesterday. So maybe Collins issue is more related to really understanding the defense and all the assignments and adjustments from okay to play. I don't think they want the same issues they had with Simmons last year...getting exposed with blown assignments. I have a feeling by about week 5 or 6, Collins will settle in and find a groove that makes the coaches more comfortable.

 

[Chopper0080]

VJ may just be very rookie averse. Not shocking, when you know your job is on the line most people typically go with an experienced hand rather than rolling the dice on inexperienced talent. And that likely amps up and down depending upon position. Not that I agree that’s the right tact, but I understand the reasoning.

What is funny is that there are a couple indicators that Vance is risk-averse in general. His blitz packages are an indicator of this.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Hicks is a captain.
Hicks has experience.
Hicks is probably the best run stopper of our ILB's at this point.
The team we played is a tough, physical, run-oriented group that thrives on play action in the passing game.

This game plan made perfect sense to me.

And possibly will be a similar game plan at home on Sunday.

 

[ajcardfan]

Didn't we do this ad nauseam last year about Simmons and yesterday everyone loves that he was a world beater? They tried to trade him and didn't get any takers. Why not use the experience and let the rookie find his way?

I think people are not remembering how badly Simmons was getting burned in the first game last year, making bad mental mistakes. Why repeat that with Collins? When Collins was in, the defensive calls allowed him to make plays rather than mistakes. I have no problem with that. He WILL come along just fine. Like Simmons has.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Agree 100%!! Whenever TN did have a good play or good series, Hicks was always showing up late to the play. We cannot beat the teams in our division with Hicks playing as much as he did yesterday. He’s good depth & can be helpful in certain packages, but he played too much yesterday.

Hicks looked slow in coverage. ZC looked really good against the run on the snaps he got so I don't see why he didn't play more snaps?

 

[Jetstream Green]

It isn't everything but it is something.

Keim selects Collins and says he is going to play right away. Kingsbury says he is going to start. Article saying Vance has had a lot of convos with Hicks. Team votes Hicks as a captain. Vance plays Hicks 95% of snaps vs Collins at 34% of snaps.

Dysfunction?

Dysfunctional... no, and in hindsight Simmons looks at ease now so maybe they have at least an idea of what they are doing

 

[Krangodnzr]

I think people are not remembering how badly Simmons was getting burned in the first game last year, making bad mental mistakes. Why repeat that with Collins? When Collins was in, the defensive calls allowed him to make plays rather than mistakes. I have no problem with that. He WILL come along just fine. Like Simmons has.

Maybe, just maybe, the Kingsbury staff made the right call with Simmons by bringing him along slow.

One of the best highlights of the day was when Simmons took Henry down one-on-one for a small gain or no gain. That play was indicative of how the Cardinals played all day.

 

[Goodyear Card]

LB Zaven Collins’ shoulder injury slowed him down, says DC Vance Joseph

The decline in playing time was in part because Tanner Vallejo was playing well but after his injury, Collins not playing makes less sense.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[Harry]

Collins has fought through several nagging injuries including one to his shoulder. He’s not from a power program and so the coverage packages are often confusing to him. He’s reasonably solid against the run. He figures to be decent in pass defense but it may take awhile. As to Hicks, he’s also been slowed by injury but he never was great in pass defense.

 

[THESMEL]

Yea yesteryear we might be 2-9 complaining that our first rounder it sucking up the position. It is a luxury to be able to bring collins along slowly, and yes VJ has developed von Miller and builds from the middle out, I’d say we are ahead of schedule, and Hicks is a blessing not a burden.

 

[kerouac9]

Collins has fought through several nagging injuries including one to his shoulder. He’s not from a power program and so the coverage packages are often confusing to him. He’s reasonably solid against the run. He figures to be decent in pass defense but it may take awhile. As to Hicks, he’s also been slowed by injury but he never was great in pass defense.

He has multiple nagging injuries despite barely playing?

 

[BigRedRage]

shades of Isaiah Simmons threads last year.

 

[Harry]

He has multiple nagging injuries despite barely playing?

Cards just confirmed the shoulder

Cards Wire

Get the latest Cardinals news, schedule, photos and rumors from Cards Wire, the best Cardinals blog available

cardswire.usatoday.com

Sent from my iPad

 

[Stout]

shades of Isaiah Simmons threads last year.

Except I think many more of us had stronger faith Simmons would come through. Take him off this defense and we're boned. Take Collins out of this defense and...well, heck, he'd have to be in it first! Who has faith he's an irreplaceable part of the defense next season? Not me.

 

[BigRedRage]

Except I think many more of us had stronger faith Simmons would come through. Take him off this defense and we're boned. Take Collins out of this defense and...well, heck, he'd have to be in it first! Who has faith he's an irreplaceable part of the defense next season? Not me.

Collins wasn't really in the D his rookie year either and all these same threads were prevelant.

He's still not as good as people expected him to be in game one of last year but he's progressing.

I'm now worried about Collins yet

 

[kerouac9]

Cards just confirmed the shoulder

Cards Wire

Get the latest Cardinals news, schedule, photos and rumors from Cards Wire, the best Cardinals blog available

cardswire.usatoday.com

Sent from my iPad

These are all quotes from the same media availability. He appeared on the injury report for just one week.

Were the cards lying then in a way that can get them punished by the league, or are they embellishing a minor injury now because they don’t want to embarrass their so-far disappointing top draft pick?

 

[Stout]

Collins wasn't really in the D his rookie year either and all these same threads were prevelant.

He's still not as good as people expected him to be in game one of last year but he's progressing.

I'm now worried about Collins yet

I am. I thought he had bustolla written all over him. Hopefully he'll eventually convince me otherwise.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Maybe, just maybe, the Kingsbury staff made the right call with Simmons by bringing him along slow.

One of the best highlights of the day was when Simmons took Henry down one-on-one for a small gain or no gain. That play was indicative of how the Cardinals played all day.

This post deserves the rare "aged well" description.

 

[Card'em]

I was at the game against Green Bay and saw Collins go out during the first defensive series with a very obvious hurt shoulder. He received medical attention on the sideline and it was the same shoulder he had hurt earlier in the year. There's no doubt in my mind that his injured shoulder has effected his development and playing time. I'm not saying that without the sore shoulder he would have met all expectations for stellar play as a rookie, but I do think it has been a significant factor in his development.

From what I saw of him early in the year, I believe his linebacking instincts and athletic ability are very good. I would be very surprised if he doesn't develop into a top notch middle linebacker over the next two years.

 

[Stout]

I was at the game against Green Bay and saw Collins go out during the first defensive series with a very obvious hurt shoulder. He received medical attention on the sideline and it was the same shoulder he had hurt earlier in the year. There's no doubt in my mind that his injured shoulder has effected his development and playing time. I'm not saying that without the sore shoulder he would have met all expectations for stellar play as a rookie, but I do think it has been a significant factor in his development.

From what I saw of him early in the year, I believe his linebacking instincts and athletic ability are very good. I would be very surprised if he doesn't develop into a top notch middle linebacker over the next two years.

I'm not going to ding you on having hope for the guy for the future, but we've see little to nothing from him to date. We certainly have seen nothing--so far--to indicate "very good" linebacking instincts and athletic ability. From what I recall, there was some surprise he didn't have more athletic burst. So, yeah, you can hope he develops into a top-notch middle linebacker, and I certainly hope so, but we've not gotten any indicators of this whatsoever to date.

One thing in his favor--well, a mitigating factor--is the injury situation. Gotta stay healthy to develop, though.

 

[Card'em]

I'm not going to ding you on having hope for the guy for the future, but we've see little to nothing from him to date. We certainly have seen nothing--so far--to indicate "very good" linebacking instincts and athletic ability. From what I recall, there was some surprise he didn't have more athletic burst. So, yeah, you can hope he develops into a top-notch middle linebacker, and I certainly hope so, but we've not gotten any indicators of this whatsoever to date.

One thing in his favor--well, a mitigating factor--is the injury situation. Gotta stay healthy to develop, though.

I just go by what I see on the field. Granted, I only have a limited amount of playing time to assess, but I stand by my belief in Zaven Collins as a future quality player. Full disclosure...I also thought Josh Rosen was our QBOF and opposed the drafting of Murray, so there's that.

 

[Stout]

I just go by what I see on the field. Granted, I only have a limited amount of playing time to assess, but I stand by my belief in Zaven Collins as a future quality player. Full disclosure...I also thought Josh Rosen was our QBOF and opposed the drafting of Murray, so there's that.

So just optimism. Which is fine, as we're fans, right? Also full disclosure: me too.

 

[DVontel]

I still like Zaven’s ceiling more than Isaiah’s. Isaiah has been solid, nowhere near All-Pro, though. I think Zaven has the potential for that, but obviously, injuries can’t get in the way.