Collison saves sucky UCLA

[Skkorpion]

Sigh. UCLA was pulling another choke job but Collison made a fabulous defensive play to save the game. Very sad day.

 

[TucsonDevil]

IF this were the Pac-10 tourney, then I agree. However, I am a Pac-10 homer and pull for any Pac-10 team once the tournament starts. I am glad they held on to win.

 

[Ronin]

Poor Maynor, his last shot (air ball) looked good but its was two feet short of the basket.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

You mean, Collison saves St. Howland's ass after his patented late game prevent offense almost chokes up another win.

Anthony Grant might be Arizona's next head coach by the way. Beating UCLA might have knocked him up a couple spots but he's definitely on the second tier.

 

[Skkorpion]

You mean, Collison saves St. Howland's ass after his patented late game prevent offense almost chokes up another win.

Yes, sir. That's what I meant.

 

[ajcardfan]

Maynor did step into the backcourt on that last play. It should've been UCLAs ball. Still, UCLA was fortunate. The PAC 10 has held up okay so far, that would've been a bad loss.

 

[Russ Smith]

Maynor did step into the backcourt on that last play. It should've been UCLAs ball. Still, UCLA was fortunate. The PAC 10 has held up okay so far, that would've been a bad loss.

Yep that shot should have never happened it was UCLA's ball when Shipp hedged and Maynor went into the backcourt but no call.

I agree with Mao, Howland needs to stop that milk the clock stuff. this team doesn't do it as well as previous teams did. Collison is not healthy right now that bruised tailbone is bothering him, and he took another hard fall in the VCU game. Really if Jrue hadn't gone off a bit when Collison got his 4th foul UCLA might have lost, they held on when they had to but that milk the clock stuff helped get VCU back in the game.


I guess I must have missed Notre Dame's first round game does anybody know if they won or lost?

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Apparently even Howland's own recruits hate his style of play.

http://ucla.freedomblogging.com/2009/03/21/ucla-basketball-drew-gordon-seeks-for-change/4465/

Not to worry, there will be a premiere Pac-10 basketball program that runs an up-tempo system soon enough.

 

[Russ Smith]

Apparently even Howland's own recruits hate his style of play.

http://ucla.freedomblogging.com/2009/03/21/ucla-basketball-drew-gordon-seeks-for-change/4465/

Not to worry, there will be a premiere Pac-10 basketball program that runs an up-tempo system soon enough.

To be fair, Gordon is pretty notorious for saying things like that. Remember he had alot of UCLA fans convinced he was going to UW because he kept saying he wanted more freedom in college, wanted to play uptempo. Drew is a very raw player so uptempo sounds more attractive to him right now than learning real post moves.

What I found interesting/distressing was the comments from Malcolm Lee and Jrue about pressing. Holiday was asked about how bad UCLA's press looked when they tried to do it against Nova to come back and he said we don't practice it so we had some real problems with it. Lee said he hopes next year that UCLA will use more full court pressure.

It concerns me that kids get to UCLA and don't seem to realize that stuff isn't going to happen under howland. Like it or not right or wrong he's not going to play zone, he's not going to press fullcourt.

Gordon also said that he wanted a more uptempo system like the one used by Villanova. Nova scored exactly 1.5 PPG more this year than UCLA did. The reason Gordon thinks Nova is a run and gun team is that UCLA defended them so badly, their offense looked awesome.

I hate the milk the clock stuff but that usually happens at about the 8 minute mark if we have a lead. This years team wasn't good enough to make it work the defense was never as good and that system works a lot better when you take 35 seconds on offense and then make the opponent grind out 30+ seconds at the other end trying to score. This year UCLA's defense was just not good enough to do that.

Young players always want to run because in HS and AAU ball most of them did just that.When they get to college the control from coaches bugs them, especially if they're not playing much.

The real irony with UCLA next year is the big question is will Jrue stay or turn pro, yet he had a very disappointing season this year. The reason he's so important to next year is none of us are convinced Jerime Anderson can be the starting PG next season. Holiday says he has no idea what he'll do, my guess is he'll test the waters and just have to hope he shoots really well in workouts or he'll be advised to stay in school.

Gordon is a bit of a hothead he got into issues with guys in so many games this season it wasn't funny. I will say this, he and Shipp were the only UCLA players who fought back against Nova. Nova was fouling REALLY hard early in that game and I was pretty unhappy with the UCLA response which was get up and complain to the ref. You have to hit back when that stuff happens.

10 minutes into the game Collison had a cut lip, Holiday got hit in the eye and Aboya got clobbered in the head, and not one of them got up and got in the face of the guy who did it.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

You make some good points, but this isn't the first time a UCLA player has complained about Howland's system after leaving even when they went to the Final Four. There's no reason a program that recruits the athletes as UCLA does should limit possessions. It's like bringing in USC talent and playing Dick Tomey football.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Gordon also said that he wanted a more uptempo system like the one used by Villanova. Nova scored exactly 1.5 PPG more this year than UCLA did. The reason Gordon thinks Nova is a run and gun team is that UCLA defended them so badly, their offense looked awesome.

UCLA was 157th in the country in tempo, Villanova was 68th.

 

[Russ Smith]

You make some good points, but this isn't the first time a UCLA player has complained about Howland's system after leaving even when they went to the Final Four. There's no reason a program that recruits the athletes as UCLA does should limit possessions. It's like bringing in USC talent and playing Dick Tomey football.

I don't disagree with the milking the clock thing but 3 final 4's in 4 years tells me it is working for Ben.


When Ben has a kid as hyped as Shakur or Budinger and that kid isn't a first rounder(or even goes undrafted) after 3-4 years then I'll be a bit more concerned about kids complaining. Kids hate cleaning their rooms too but in the long run it's for their own good.

As for Gordon he's in a difficult situation at UCLA, at his size he knows he's not going to play C in the NBA, he wanted to play the 4 but UCLA needed him at C because Aboya was foul prone and Morgan wasn't in good enough shape to play much this year. Now Gordon may be stuck at the 5 again next year because he'll only be competing with Morgan and Stover there. If he moves to the 4 he'll have to compete with Drago, Keefe, Nelson and Lane.

The smart thing to do is play the 5 but these days kids are always concerned with what is best for their NBA chances. I like Drew a lot he's a very tough kid, he just needs to get his emotions in check and if he has an issue, go to Howland not to the OC register.

Not everyone can play for Howland that's obvious. I hope Gordon can I think he'll be a very valuable player for UCLA .

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

When Ben has a kid as hyped as Shakur or Budinger and that kid isn't a first rounder(or even goes undrafted) after 3-4 years

Jrue Holiday? McD's AA James Keefe? Josh Shipp was top 50 out of HS and he's going to Europe.

Busts happen to every coach.

 

[Russ Smith]

UCLA was 157th in the country in tempo, Villanova was 68th.

UCLA was 3rd in offensive efficiency, not sure where Nova was but it wasn't 1 or 2. UCLA shot better from 3 during the season than Nova did so they scored more points per possession. Obviously Nova was the better team, but if UCLA's offense got to play against UCLA's defense on Saturday, they would have looked really good too.

Offense was not the problem this year, defense was. When a team leads the nation in FG% it's hard to swallow that they were not playing the right style of ball for their personnel.

 

[Russ Smith]

Jrue Holiday? McD's AA James Keefe? Josh Shipp was top 50 out of HS and he's going to Europe.

Busts happen to every coach.

I said played 3-4 years, Jrue has played one. I don't think he'll ever live up to the hype but if he stays 3-4 years I think he'll be a very good college player.

Keefe was only a McD's player because he signed with UCLA. Anybody who saw the MCD's game or read about the practices knew that Keefe was completely overmatched and had no business in that game. Scout had him as the 9th best PF in the country that year so top 50. He's been a disappointing player but the system is not the problem, he's just not that good.

To contrast Scout had Budinger as the 3rd rated SF behind Kevin Durant and Thaddeus Young, both NBA players.

Shipp has had 2 complete hip surgeries and Scout rated him the 24th best SG in the country his senior year, just out of the top 100. I don't have the Rivals ranking but Scout generally rates West Coast guys higher than Rivals does. Shipp was the lowest rated recruit UCLA brought in that year behind Farmar, Afflalo and even Mata-Real. He was never considered an NBA prospect but 2 hip surgeries made that a lock.

Shakur was the top rated PG in his class. Again I'm not blaming Lute and UA for him he was overrated and had his own problems. But playing in a run and gun system is not a panacea, and in some cases it can be the absolute worst thing for a kid because some kids need to learn how to play the game under control and be forced to play defense and if they don't, they won't make it to the NBA.

It does hurt in recruiting sometimes for sure, UCLA has lost kids(Budinger) for that very reason, but they've also landed a lot of kids who had other schools telling them you don't want to go to UCLA the offense is boring.

Most UCLA fans are a lot more concerned with what happened to the defense this year than we need to open up the offense.

 

[Skkorpion]

Offense and scoring wins hoops championships, Russ. With Howland, you'll compete but never win one unless he changes his mindset and attack and that's unlikely.

 

[Russ Smith]

Offense and scoring wins hoops championships, Russ. With Howland, you'll compete but never win one unless he changes his mindset and attack and that's unlikely.

If that were true I'd agree with you but it's not. Mao mentioned pace as a measure of how "open" an offense was. According to Ken Pomeroy Kansas last year was 136th in the country in adjusted pace, Memphis the runner up was #87. this year Memphis is 169th yet is ranked #1 overall as a team by Pomeroy's formula. UNC ranks 6th this year, the next highest rating for a #1 seed in pace is 98 for Louisville.



note UCLA was 3rd in the country in offensive efficiency adjusted numbers. UNC was #1, Pitt #2(coached by a Howland disciple), UCLA, Gonzaga and Duke.

UCLA was 44th in defensive efficiency adjusted. Pitt will be an interesting test of Pomeroy's stats because they're only 35th in defensive efficiency this year. UNC is only 28th. If either of them win it will be the first team in 4 years to do so with a defense not ranked 12th or higher.

If you look at Kansas last year and Florida the 2 years before you'll see they were very high in both numbers.

06 Florida 2nd adjusted offense, 5th adjusted defense
07 Florida 1st adjusted offense, 12th adjusted defense
08 Kansas 2nd adjusted offense, 1st adjusted defense.

Offense does not win basketball championships, being a great team does and that means at both ends. As I've been telling you all year, the problem with UCLA this year is the defense. UCLA was 2nd national in defensive efficiency in 08 and 06, 3rd in 07.

I do agree with the milking the clock thing and I've pointed that out repeatedly. In the past it worked because the defense was so good that milking the clock at the 8 minute mark severely limited the total possessions left in the game. If you have a 8 point lead at the 8 minute mark and you take 30 seconds each trip and force your opponent to take 30 seconds each trip that means they literally have 8 trips left in the game. So in 8 trips they have to outscore you by at least 8 points just to tie. In past years that was damn near impossible to do against UCLA's defense, this year it wasn't.

 

[DWKB]

Offense and scoring wins hoops championships, Russ. With Howland, you'll compete but never win one unless he changes his mindset and attack and that's unlikely.

As a Kansas Jayhawks fan watching 15 years of Roy Williams and 6 years of Bill Self, this statement is full of fail.

 

[Russ Smith]

FYI Chad Forde today said that while he clearly needs to stay in school there are "rumblings" that Jrue is unhappy at UCLA and it might push him into the draft.

Not really sure what to make of that there's a guy who posts on my favorite UCLA site who is apparently a friend of the Holiday family(says his son played with Jrue). He hinted recently he thinks Jrue will go pro and there were things behind the scene that didn't sit well with Holiday.

From what he wrote during the season, Jrue wanted to play PG and was unhappy that Howland didn't move Collison to the 2 so he could play the 1, but it was hard to tell if that sentiment was coming from Jrue, or the guy posting it because it was very clear that HE felt howland should take a preseason all american and move him to a different position to make room for an 18 year old freshman. He then spent the entire season excusing Jrue's play because "he's out of position, Shipp and DC are ballhogs, the offense doesn't suit him etc."

I think UCLA would be better with Jrue back, largely because I'm not sold on Jerime Anderson and even if he were ready to be the PG, UCLA has no backup, Lee didn't show he's even remotely able to play PG.

But if Jrue is really unhappy based on what I saw and heard this year then by all means go pro. Forde himself said it would be a huge mistake and I agree but if he's really mad that he didn't get to play PG this year then go pro and find out how good you had it at UCLA playing 30 MPG.