Concussions

[john h]

Today it was announced in the WSJ and USA Today that a new method of predicting dementia or Alzheimer has been discovered with a simple Pet-Scan. It can predict you are a likely candidate to get one of these diseases from concussions.

I would guess many NFL players will get this test. If they possess the precursors for these diseases they may choose to quit football rather than risk more concussions and increase their chances of getting these terrible diseases. This type of stuff has been in the headlines all year and you can bet NFL players pay close attention if they value their lives. My understanding it is already FDA approved.

Among the players I would suspect who is sure looking at this test is Kevin Kolb. What if he shows one of the signs of a precursor to one of these diseases. Having already suffered several concussion and the last one being very bad according to him it will have to effect how he plays football if he does not even quit. He has a lot of money involved so he may choose just to continue to play but play it very very safe. The league may even require players with concussions to undergo this test in the future as they have put more and more restrictions on teams to protect players from concussions. Before recent weeks you had to be dead and have an autopsy before you could be diagnosed with the disease that causes Dementia or some other mental disease. Pet Scans are not all that expensive to do and can be done quickly. If I were an NFL player and had a concussion or two I would do a Pet-Scan on my own even if the team would not pay for it. One has to wonder how Kevin Kolb is looking at this? As an owner you may want all your players to have this test or you might be subject to law suits. This new procedure is going to have far reaching effects not only in the NFL but in boxing and other high impact sports where concussions are common. Kevin is already a rich man with children and a young wife and if I were him I would be the first in line to be tested.

 

[ajcardfan]

John, this is an important issue that has to be fixed by the NFL and the doctors somehow, or the game will whither on the vine eventuallu. Lots of parents I know are freaked out about these brain injuries, and the Seau publicity is going to make it worse.

These scans sound like a way to offer players better health protection since they basically give their body to the game.

 

[LarryStalling]

I was watching a show on the CES Monday and they showed something that was of interest pertaining to concussions. Some company has produced a device that goes behnd a players ear and connects to a wireless network and instantly signals to the bench of a blow to the head was traumatic enough to warrant immediate health check.

 

[perivolaki]

Listened to Scott Peters today on Brad cemats show.

He is on a panel investigating this with many groups, including doctors, helmet makers, and others. He is working with a doctor from Duke.

He said they have just developed a scan that can detect damage in live patients. He said before this new test they could only know by doing an autopsy.

He also said he is taking a new developmental drug that can help reverse the effects of brain trauma.

Supposedly brain scarring prevents some of the parts of the brain from connecting.

This drug thins or reduces scarring and allows the different parts of the brain to reconnect.

He is taking this drug and says it has helped him a lot. The drug is some common thing but I can't remember what it is. He said you just put it under your tongue.

Sorry if I don't have all the terms correct but I was driving when I was listening.

Pretty interesting stuff though.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

John, this is an important issue that has to be fixed by the NFL and the doctors somehow, or the game will whither on the vine eventuallu. Lots of parents I know are freaked out about these brain injuries, and the Seau publicity is going to make it worse.

These scans sound like a way to offer players better health protection since they basically give their body to the game.

That goes for hockey, basketball, baseball, rugby, tennis, ..... maybe all sports except golf, and bowling.

The American way of trying to wipe the situation off the face of the planet is ridiculous.

If you are going to play sports then be ready to take the chances to your health that comes with them. I am all for being more educated, and being more informed about any injury suffered. I am completely 100% against this kind of information being used in litigation, and for thinking this will "solve the issue" and make concussions "go away".

Perfect example is Junior Seau's family suing the NFL. Absolutely ridiculous. The players were given all the information known at the current time he was playing. The information we have now, was and is only available up till now.

I mean, can I go find the person the built my house 100 years ago, and go after him for using materials that were just made known to be harmful 3 days ago ?

I know this makes me out to be the unsympathetic bad guy, yet I will state again, I am all for education and for informing people of the risks they take, yet I am always wary.

1- Cause people get WAY out of control in trying to "keep other people safe from themselves" so I worry that the freedom to make a choice on playing a sport will be taken away at some point.

2- This continues down the line of relieving people from their own personal responsibility. I mean the logic of the law suit that Seau's family is filing is ridiculous. "Junior Seau chose to play football for an extremely long time, and in an extremely aggressive way. He was played millions to do so, and enjoyed the life and luxiaries of being a sports celebrity. During this very long career he suffered brain trauma and it was linked to his suicide." We are now suing the NFL for allowing Seau, to may his own choice, in playing football in the NFL."

So, they are suing the NFL for the choices made by Junior Seau.

Based on that logic, I am suing my current job for my decision to work there, and not deciding to be ....I dunno a billionaire playboy. Thus the emotional and financial losses I have endured for my own actions, and the refusal for Viking to push me towards were I, and my family believe in hindsight is a better choice for myself, then the one I made.

Seriously. That is just nutz.

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1 - If you don't want to get hurt then don't play.

2 - If you play and do get hurt, it is no one's fault but your own.

3 - If you don't play, and you still get hurt doing something else don't complain about missed opportunities and finding yourself in the same situation if you took said risks.

Is #3 confusing ? Well, let me explain. I played rugby for about 12 years, not to mention football for 4 years. I have done more damage to my body, shoveling snow, and doing work around the house then I have ever done playing a sport, not to mention rugby where you are not even wearing helmets. Thus the irony of constantly worry about if I got hurt playing rugby after college, and risking losing my job, and then breaking my wrist shoveling snow.

So, when these athletes site, job related injury, what proof do they have that at one point and time, while doing yard work, or shoveling snow did they not injure themselves worse then any time out on the field ?

As for the "fear" of parents about protecting their kids ? At what cost ? Sometimes I compare an over protective parent to the people that run PETA. In the fact they feel "saving" an animals is not letting it get put to sleep, but in doing so condemns the animal to live out its days slammed into the corner of a crowded room in a cage for most of its life. Meaning, what is being accomplished by "bubble wrapping" a kid and not letting him take any risks.

 

[Russ Smith]

That goes for hockey, basketball, baseball, rugby, tennis, ..... maybe all sports except golf, and bowling.

The American way of trying to wipe the situation off the face of the planet is ridiculous.

If you are going to play sports then be ready to take the chances to your health that comes with them. I am all for being more educated, and being more informed about any injury suffered. I am completely 100% against this kind of information being used in litigation, and for thinking this will "solve the issue" and make concussions "go away".

Perfect example is Junior Seau's family suing the NFL. Absolutely ridiculous. The players were given all the information known at the current time he was playing. The information we have now, was and is only available up till now.

I mean, can I go find the person the built my house 100 years ago, and go after him for using materials that were just made known to be harmful 3 days ago ?

I know this makes me out to be the unsympathetic bad guy, yet I will state again, I am all for education and for informing people of the risks they take, yet I am always wary.

1- Cause people get WAY out of control in trying to "keep other people safe from themselves" so I worry that the freedom to make a choice on playing a sport will be taken away at some point.

2- This continues down the line of relieving people from their own personal responsibility. I mean the logic of the law suit that Seau's family is filing is ridiculous. "Junior Seau chose to play football for an extremely long time, and in an extremely aggressive way. He was played millions to do so, and enjoyed the life and luxiaries of being a sports celebrity. During this very long career he suffered brain trauma and it was linked to his suicide." We are now suing the NFL for allowing Seau, to may his own choice, in playing football in the NFL."

So, they are suing the NFL for the choices made by Junior Seau.

Based on that logic, I am suing my current job for my decision to work there, and not deciding to be ....I dunno a billionaire playboy. Thus the emotional and financial losses I have endured for my own actions, and the refusal for Viking to push me towards were I, and my family believe in hindsight is a better choice for myself, then the one I made.

Seriously. That is just nutz.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 - If you don't want to get hurt then don't play.

2 - If you play and do get hurt, it is no one's fault but your own.

3 - If you don't play, and you still get hurt doing something else don't complain about missed opportunities and finding yourself in the same situation if you took said risks.

Is #3 confusing ? Well, let me explain. I played rugby for about 12 years, not to mention football for 4 years. I have done more damage to my body, shoveling snow, and doing work around the house then I have ever done playing a sport, not to mention rugby where you are not even wearing helmets. Thus the irony of constantly worry about if I got hurt playing rugby after college, and risking losing my job, and then breaking my wrist shoveling snow.

So, when these athletes site, job related injury, what proof do they have that at one point and time, while doing yard work, or shoveling snow did they not injure themselves worse then any time out on the field ?

As for the "fear" of parents about protecting their kids ? At what cost ? Sometimes I compare an over protective parent to the people that run PETA. In the fact they feel "saving" an animals is not letting it get put to sleep, but in doing so condemns the animal to live out its days slammed into the corner of a crowded room in a cage for most of its life. Meaning, what is being accomplished by "bubble wrapping" a kid and not letting him take any risks.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't one of the central points of their suit that they believe the NFL already knew but didn't tell the players?

They're talking about it on Mike and Mike right now and that's what Golic is saying, that many NFL players even now knowing this would lie about a concussion to go back in the game. But, if the NFL knew this stuff years ago, and didn't tell the players, they'd be legally liable.

They're comparing it to the tobacco industry having all sorts of internal docs that proved they knew smoking caused cancer, but denying it for years because it was bad for business.

 

[crisper57]

http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/i...-applying-nevada-boxing-license-plan-comeback

I see this discovery as opening the door to regulate NFL participation in a manner similar to boxing. Specifically, a player can only participate if they are (licensed, authorized,green-lighted, whatever) to do so by some independent body after a review of their medical records.

I am not talking about team physicians, I am talking about (for lack of a better term), a medical board.

I wonder if a willing player could ever be denied access to the sport, by some panel of doctors, because of health concerns. It would be one more way for the league to insulate itself from all these lawsuits.

 

[ajcardfan]

The concussion issue is also greatly impacted by how the physics of the game has steadily changed over the last 30-40 years. Players have gotten steadily bigger and faster over that time. And, that leads to more forceful hits, and more brains slapping against the skull bones. Simple physics ( f=ma)


This was very predictable, and I'm certain there are studies out there that were making that prediction. If the NFL ignored that for a long time, then they are going to be held liable in these cases sooner or later.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

The concussion issue is also greatly impacted by how the physics of the game has steadily changed over the last 30-40 years. Players have gotten steadily bigger and faster over that time. And, that leads to more forceful hits, and more brains slapping against the skull bones. Simple physics ( f=ma)


This was very predictable, and I'm certain there are studies out there that were making that prediction. If the NFL ignored that for a long time, then they are going to be held liable in these cases sooner or later.

I guess.

So, until the NFL tells someone, every body was under the impression that getting hit in the head too much was OK for your well being ?

.....you know what ? Scratch that. Cause I am thinking in a logical world, and not the real world where people have to put safety stickers on obvious dangerous things all the time.

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[john h]

Today it was announced in the WSJ and USA Today that a new method of predicting dementia or Alzheimer has been discovered with a simple Pet-Scan. It can predict you are a likely candidate to get one of these diseases from concussions.

I would guess many NFL players will get this test. If they possess the precursors for these diseases they may choose to quit football rather than risk more concussions and increase their chances of getting these terrible diseases. This type of stuff has been in the headlines all year and you can bet NFL players pay close attention if they value their lives. My understanding it is already FDA approved.

Among the players I would suspect who is sure looking at this test is Kevin Kolb. What if he shows one of the signs of a precursor to one of these diseases. Having already suffered several concussion and the last one being very bad according to him it will have to effect how he plays football if he does not even quit. He has a lot of money involved so he may choose just to continue to play but play it very very safe. The league may even require players with concussions to undergo this test in the future as they have put more and more restrictions on teams to protect players from concussions. Before recent weeks you had to be dead and have an autopsy before you could be diagnosed with the disease that causes Dementia or some other mental disease. Pet Scans are not all that expensive to do and can be done quickly. If I were an NFL player and had a concussion or two I would do a Pet-Scan on my own even if the team would not pay for it. One has to wonder how Kevin Kolb is looking at this? As an owner you may want all your players to have this test or you might be subject to law suits. This new procedure is going to have far reaching effects not only in the NFL but in boxing and other high impact sports where concussions are common. Kevin is already a rich man with children and a young wife and if I were him I would be the first in line to be tested.

I sure do not know the answer to this but there are jobs that are inherently dangerous. As a fighter pilot I could not buy life insurance. It is a very dangerous occupation even in peace time. Fishermen in the North Sea and Alaska, Coal Miners have some of the most dangerous jobs in the world. No one makes any of us do these jobs. We do it because we like it, make more money, or what ever. Football is the same way. You cannot remove the danger from these occupations entirely. Flying into space we know is very dangerous but there are people fighting and even paying millions of dollars just to be a passenger. We can only go so far and other than just not doing it the danger will remain. Guys who drive a boat 500 mph and cars almost the speed of sound are crazy in my opinion but they are always out there ready to do their thing. It seems to me there is not much more that can be done in the NFL that has not already being done without changing the sport itself. I would rather make a flight over Hanoi in war than catch a pass over the middle in the NFL. I really do not like heights but I love flying. Each of us have our own fears and government cannot legislate them out of us. None of us know what is going on in Kolb's head and probably never will. He is a rich man and he also has responsibilities to his family so if a PET SCAN showed markers for dementia or Alzheimer does he make the decision to quit football or will it be incumbent upon the team to make him quit? There are a lot questions that will have to be answered with the discovery of this new test for concussions. As a pilot flying in combat I can tell you most of us just blocked out of our minds the possibility of dying. You think it will always be the other guy.

 

[40yearfan]

I sure do not know the answer to this but there are jobs that are inherently dangerous. As a fighter pilot I could not buy life insurance. It is a very dangerous occupation even in peace time. Fishermen in the North Sea and Alaska, Coal Miners have some of the most dangerous jobs in the world. No one makes any of us do these jobs. We do it because we like it, make more money, or what ever. Football is the same way. You cannot remove the danger from these occupations entirely. Flying into space we know is very dangerous but there are people fighting and even paying millions of dollars just to be a passenger. We can only go so far and other than just not doing it the danger will remain. Guys who drive a boat 500 mph and cars almost the speed of sound are crazy in my opinion but they are always out there ready to do their thing. It seems to me there is not much more that can be done in the NFL that has not already being done without changing the sport itself. I would rather make a flight over Hanoi in war than catch a pass over the middle in the NFL. I really do not like heights but I love flying. Each of us have our own fears and government cannot legislate them out of us. None of us know what is going on in Kolb's head and probably never will. He is a rich man and he also has responsibilities to his family so if a PET SCAN showed markers for dementia or Alzheimer does he make the decision to quit football or will it be incumbent upon the team to make him quit? There are a lot questions that will have to be answered with the discovery of this new test for concussions. As a pilot flying in combat I can tell you most of us just blocked out of our minds the possibility of dying. You think it will always be the other guy.

Aren't you glad you were right in this case?

 

[john h]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't one of the central points of their suit that they believe the NFL already knew but didn't tell the players?

They're talking about it on Mike and Mike right now and that's what Golic is saying, that many NFL players even now knowing this would lie about a concussion to go back in the game. But, if the NFL knew this stuff years ago, and didn't tell the players, they'd be legally liable.

They're comparing it to the tobacco industry having all sorts of internal docs that proved they knew smoking caused cancer, but denying it for years because it was bad for business.

We know fighting in a war is about as dangerous as it gets. All our current military are volunteers and unless they are fools they know they would likely end up in Afghanistan or some other deadly place when they enlisted. We have hundreds of thousands of such volunteers. If they die it is totally on each person even if some commander makes a bad decision as bad decisions are part of war. Many people like to live on the edge. NFL players I think have a gene that not every one has. Not everyone can continue to play a dangerous sport with broken bones and in severe pain which is just what an NFL player will do. You do not have to be a genius to know you are very likely to get injured and sometimes very severely when you enter the NFL. I do not know what an owner can do that is not being done so I do not understand all the law suits other than for money. It is sort of like a driver for Roger Penske suing him when they have a wreck going 240 mph. Probably more people go to these races to see the wrecks than to see who wins. If there were no wrecks you would not have 200 or 300 thousand people at the race track. A lot of people probably enjoy the big hits in the NFL even when they cause injury. They sure cheer when it happens. I recall even today the fans cheering when Kent Graham got hurt and our local QB hero got to come in. Never mind that Kent did even know where he was.

I think it would be a good idea if all the union players contributed a portion of their earnings into a fund for players who are severely injured in the future. The owners might also add into this fund. As much as these guys earn the fund would sure grow rapidly if they kicked in something like 5-10% of their earnings along with what ever ownership would contribute. In the military if you get seriously hurt you get the necessary health care but it mostly ends with that. The number of concussion in Iraq and Afghanistan has been enormous due to the type of weapons being used such as land mines. It will be some years before we see the results of these injuries. Not unlike Agent Orange.

 

[john h]

I was watching a show on the CES Monday and they showed something that was of interest pertaining to concussions. Some company has produced a device that goes behnd a players ear and connects to a wireless network and instantly signals to the bench of a blow to the head was traumatic enough to warrant immediate health check.

When I was a teen my buddy was swinging a baseball bat and hit me squarely in back of the head knocking me down and out. After a couple of minutes I awakened and only had a cut. I would like to find him now and sue him. I would not even have know what a concussion was at that time. If you could run you could play. I sure was hit a lot more than once on a hitters back swing as I was a catcher and we wore no helmet. There has to be hundreds if not thousands of punch drunk boxers wondering the streets. These guys might get 3 or so concussions in one match while we all cheer for our man.